Cory's Corner: Amos & Clinton-Dix Debates Rage On
The Adrian Amos and Ha Ha Clinton-Dix debates will never end — no matter how pointless they are.
Adrian Amos was signed by Green Bay way back on March 14.
That induced plenty of chatter about Amos and Ha Ha Clinton-Dix. But I am honestly surprised that the chatter is still at a low simmer.
There are Bears fans that are still waving the Clinton-Dix flag loud and proud. That’s not to say that Clinton-Dix cannot have a special year for Chicago this season. It was pretty telling that Washington would be so inclined to not bring him back after trading for him last year.
The reason this is interesting to me is because Touchdown Wire recently listed Amos as its Top 11 NFL safeties. (And no, Clinton-Dix wasn’t listed at all.)
Obviously, the reason I’m surprised about all of this isn’t simply because of a list put out in early June. (And just for giggles Packers fans, Buffalo’s Micah Hyde was listed at No. 9.)
Amos is the perfect complement for Darnell Savage. And judging by how many Clinton-Dix business decisions we’ve all seen, I’m not sure he’s a complement for anyone. The stats may look shiny and sparkly but the tape says something else entirely. Now that he is on his third team in two years, maybe he will change his mindset.
But I doubt it. You cannot play defense timid. You have to have a degree of reckless and I don’t think Clinton-Dix has that anymore. Which sounds absurd because he’s only 26.
Amos and Clinton-Dix will never go against each other, yet the debates will continue this offseason before hitting a crescendo for the season opener in Chicago. It’s kind of like saying that Aaron Rodgers is taking on Mitch Trubisky. I hate it when those comparisons get made because I have never seen Trubisky bite on a Rodgers pump fake. (But I would love to.)
The Amos and Clinton-Dix debates will continue on well past Rodgers humiliates Clinton-Dix this year. Unfortunately, I don’t think there’s much of a debate unless Clinton-Dix can change his entire mindset.
If not, the Redskins will be screaming, “We told you so!”
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Cory Jennerjohn is a graduate from UW-Oshkosh and has been in sports media for over 15 years. He was a co-host on "Clubhouse Live" and has also done various radio and TV work as well. He has written for newspapers, magazines and websites. He currently is a columnist for CHTV and also does various podcasts. He recently earned his Masters degree from the University of Iowa. He can be found on Twitter: @Coryjennerjohn
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Comments (81)
NickPerry
June 11, 2019 at 06:38 am
There was a piece on "Bears Wire" to which I actually commented...Twice AND in a very civil matter. I think Cory hit on a very important point which was this...
"And judging by how many Clinton-Dix business decisions we’ve all seen, I’m not sure he’s a complement for anyone."
Whether it's "Business Decisions" or something else HHCD just hasn't been a very good Safety in this League for much of the last 2 seasons or so. Washington giving up a 4th and then letting him walk speaks volumes to that. I guess we'll have to wait and see starting week one BUT if there's one guy who knows HHCD it's Rodgers and Adams. They WILL put him in a position to make a play and based on the last few years HHCD will come up short.
TheVOR
June 11, 2019 at 08:22 am
The only thing I'm certain of, is that his best 2 games of the season will be against GB, not to be confused that he'll be some huge factor. He's failed to sign long term deals in all 3 locations thus far. I'd say right now he's playing a roll of stop gap, as opposed to Blue Chip Journeyman.
For GB to have gotten a 4th rounder for a guy they had no intention of resigning was awesome! I'm good with the decision, I'm good with Amos on this roster and the addition of Savage. Checkmate Green Bay Packers!
There really is no debate, GB improved, Chicago didn't. Telling you right now, GB in the opener on the road, will go into Chicago, and hit them in the mouth, hard! Just have a feeling. No excuses, GB has a better roster than last year, no more excuses, time to hit them in the mouth, hard!
NickPerry
June 11, 2019 at 08:49 pm
What's funny to me is all these Bears writers and Bears fans seem to be trying to TALK themselves into this nonsense HHCD is better than Amos. You can talk until your blue in the face, it won't change a thing. HHCD is a declining player who will bounce around the NFL the nest few years and talk to his grandkids about how good he was IN 2015!
hobowilly
June 12, 2019 at 10:39 am
VOR, neat! I'm not about disking a guy who is gone. Dix was a better than avg player for GB...but you are so right: why did the Deadskins let him go after paying a pretty big price for him? Real reason i'm responding though takes me to Josh Jones. No doubt a Gutey pick as an exceptional athlete, but there's something more to the story, like comprehension and/or coachability. Do you think Pettine has GB mgmt's ear when it comes to vet players and/or cuts and practice squad??! Nags spoke a bit about it yesterday...all i see is him being traded and thanks Tramon (again) for it is all about the TEAM. What an awesome beginning on 5 Sept and that new beginning will likely go down to the wire--Nagy -vs- MLF!!!
Savage57
June 11, 2019 at 06:46 am
All Amos needs to do is show he won't run AWAY from a player when contact is imminent, and we'll have all the proof we need the Packers got the better end of the deal.
Coldworld
June 11, 2019 at 07:02 am
Dix has talent for the big play, but either not the will or ability to play a team role. If it’s will, can the Bears change that? They might in the short term, but in the end, there is a probability he will revert.
The thing that strikes me is that the reason that I thought the Bears were so good at safety was the tandem of an assignment sure player with a splash type player (whom I think is much more rounded than Dix). Now they have two similar types. I am sure they can and do look at that optimistically as being the perfect tandem. On the other hand, my perspective is that it is more likely to produce errors and confusion.
Amos is exactly the type that the Packers need. An assignment sure player who plays in system and with discipline around which one can build. The Bears no longer have that unless they want to have their star cover for HHCD. If they see HHCD as filling that role, then they have truly blundered. Bad angles, poor tackling, free lancing and intermittent effort etc. are part of his game.
Overall, I think Amos was an ideal type around which to rebuild. If Savage develops as we hope, this could have the potential to be a great tandem for the future. I think the Bears will not find their new pairing to be a good marriage despite some splash plays.
hobowilly
June 12, 2019 at 10:44 am
CW, the only thing you left out was the fact, GB mgmt managed to pull him away from a division rivalry. Can't recall too many times GB has done that, but CAN recall several Packers leaving for same (#4, Sitton, Lang etc.)
Leatherhead
June 11, 2019 at 09:09 am
That's kind of an odd criticism of Dix when he was one of our leading tacklers every year.
Coldworld
June 11, 2019 at 09:18 am
He also failed to wrap up and played off. It’s usual for a safety to rack up those stats. What’s not factored in is the timing and effectiveness. Surely you are not suggesting that HHCD was an enforcer? If you are, we differ in what we saw.
Leatherhead
June 11, 2019 at 11:20 am
I'm suggesting that he was one of the leading tacklers in a bad defense. Yes, it is usual for safeties to get a lot of tackles. Yes, he got a lot of tackles.
I'm not sure how that fits with the "wrap up" narrative. IF true, that would suggest he should have had lots more tackles.....and he's already one of our top guys. Isn't anybody else tackling anybody?
Coldworld
June 11, 2019 at 11:54 am
As a simplistic level I am saying that volume doesn’t equal acumen when it comes down to key tackles.
Leatherhead
June 11, 2019 at 01:45 pm
Key tackles?? Every tackle is key. You know what they call plays without tackles? Touchdowns.
Coldworld
June 11, 2019 at 02:57 pm
Silly
Samson
June 11, 2019 at 07:04 pm
Remember, OS is only here to contradict the norm.... Everyone who understands anything about football understands the gist of the article & your comments.
Leatherhead
June 12, 2019 at 01:25 pm
Remember, Samson is only here to attack other people. Everyone can see he has no insight.
flackcatcher
June 11, 2019 at 12:08 pm
Tape doesn't show that. The loss of Hyde was much more serious than the front office let on. Losing an assignment sure player and your play caller on the defensive end crippled this team. Want to know why the Packers were thin and a mess last year in the secondary, there's your answer. On the bright side, it exposed Clinton-Dix flaws which led IAM to move him early, and speed up the rebuild of the defense under Pettine. Dix never played solid either in the box, or in press coverage the last two years the Packers had him in contract. Completely different player from when the Packers drafted him and his first two years in the league. Why? Only Clinton-Dix knows for sure.
CoachJV
June 11, 2019 at 05:52 pm
I just remember "The stiff arm". It was very much what HHCD had become for us... an embarrassment.
Kinda like CM3 when Cam Newton punked him on National TV with audio and everything... at Lambeau... uggg...
Demon
June 11, 2019 at 04:06 pm
Keep reading the stats buddy. They tell the whole story.
How is it OS that the only person on that team that stunk is AR? You have no problem bashing AR or even A Jones, but then your computer tells you HHCD is great. Once again I suggest maybe spend a few hours on a Sunday watching a game.
Leatherhead
June 11, 2019 at 04:32 pm
Who said AR stunk? I said he's above average.
Leatherhead
June 12, 2019 at 01:26 pm
Six downvotes for saying Aaron Rodgers is above average. Fascinating.
RCPackerFan
June 11, 2019 at 06:51 am
I thought Clinton-Dix when he came in was going to be a pro bowl caliber player. And he did infact become one. Since then, he changed. I really don't know what he has become. Because he is not the player he was when he came into the league.
What I like the most is that the Packers got a 4th round pick for him who they had no plans to resign. They gave up a player for 1/2 the season that they weren't going to resign for a 4th round pick. Not bad at all.
That 4th round pick became key as they used it to trade up and get Savage.
I do think that Amos will be a really good pairing with Savage. Similar to the way it was in Chicago.
But the upgrade at Safety this year should be significant. We are going from the combination of Whitehead, Brice and Clinton-Dix to Savage and Amos. The bar wasn't set very high for those guys to be better. Safety could be our most improved position on the roster this year.
greengold
June 11, 2019 at 07:08 am
I couldn't agree more RCPackerFan. Our "upgrade" is indeed a true upgrade. Savage and Amos should make for a great pairing in our secondary. The ranger paired with the tough box Safety.
Chicago will soon enough realize that they no longer have that.
RCPackerFan
June 11, 2019 at 02:43 pm
The part I keep hearing about Amos is that he is a mistake free player. He won't miss assignments. He will be where he is supposed to be. That is a really good thing. We haven't had that in a while. The last few years we have had safety's out of place a lot. Miscommunication between S's and CB's. Way to much.
Now they added a guy who if at the very least is mistake free should be an improvement.
Savage brings a Nick Collins type of safety to the defense. He has great Speed and range. Savage maybe the guy we have lacked for a while. A guy who can cover up for other players mistakes with his speed. He can perhaps be a guy that stops plays faster due to his speed. Not allowing for players to gain chunk yards at a time.
Safety should be a big time improvement. And I do think Amos and Savage will be a good pairing.
Samson
June 11, 2019 at 07:36 pm
Amos & Savage will be the ultimate safety combo in the NFL sooner than most expect (2019?).
greengold
June 12, 2019 at 11:02 am
I am a monster, monster, monster, monster Darnell Savage fan.
He was the #1 player that I wanted GB to select in this past draft. It was like Christmas for me when Gutey traded up for him. I guarantee, Savage will look more like a Nick Collins, not as a rookie, but a Nick Collins with 3-4 years NFL experience, in this 2019 season.
Savage is incredibly bright, incredibly fast, and even faster to analyze what the opponent is wanting to do and destroy the play. Plus, he really loves the game. He will be the perfect complement to Adrian Amos. Ohhh, man! This is gonna be good!!!!
PatrickGB
June 11, 2019 at 06:54 am
In all fairness to the Redskins, they wanted him back but felt that they would not pay the price he wanted. Safety’s are supposedly devalued in today’s NFL. Yet GB did not mind paying for Amos.
Coldworld
June 11, 2019 at 09:36 am
We needed a reliable, competent player to build off. We had to get a safety with experience to build around. That likely changed the calculation.
The Redskins also had a safety need. They appear to have been interested in bringing back HHCD yet unsure what they had. There are a number of commentators asking were his struggles due to him or his unfamiliarity with their system? Here is one example crime Redskins Wire:
“Many point to the fact that Clinton-Dix struggled for the Redskins this year, but I chalk that up to trying to learn a new system mid-season. Developing trust with new players around you in coverage takes time, and having a off-season to work on schemes will likely make a big difference.”
Looking at it, what they experienced was a few great plays and a lot of the same issues that we experienced here. From a Packers fan’s perspective, it sounds awfully similar to what we saw over the last couple of years.
In the end the Bears snapped him up before the Redskins could make an offer. Except that the Redskins could have offered prior to FA. Moreover, he jumped for a relatively low contract (as the Bears have celebrated).
My guess is that the Redskins were only talking limited commitment and open to a continuing audition, whereas the Bears were promising starter status. If so, based on what Washington got in its half season, it suggests that the Bears may have erred, the more so the more I read.
One would expect HHCD to have gone all out after the trade, but it seems that he remained the HHCD if the first half of the season. 6 picks but still a net liability. Reading up on this, it looks to me like a lot worse of a move by the Bears than I thought starting out. That 4th round pick looks to be an even better exchange.
dobber
June 11, 2019 at 04:11 pm
"In the end the Bears snapped him up before the Redskins could make an offer. Except that the Redskins could have offered prior to FA. Moreover, he jumped for a relatively low contract (as the Bears have celebrated)."
True, and it's not like HHCD was a first-day FA signing. He was on the market for a bit before the Bears signed him.
Thegreatreynoldo
June 12, 2019 at 02:43 am
Washington has some cap issues due to Alex Smith's injury, so the team was reluctant to make any long-term offer. Dix probably figured that he was going to have to take a prove-it type contract, and one of the best places to do that is on a team that has a stellar defense and great pass rush, so Chicago fit that bill.
I don't really doubt HHCD's ability to be at least above average. I have doubted his attitude and willingness, which got me lots of down votes in May of 2018.
Since he got the wake-up call and his next contract is on the line, I think he mostly will do things for the Bears that he didn't do for GB. For example, Bears fans might not see HHCD standing near a moving pile instead of joining in the fray.
Rak43
June 11, 2019 at 11:59 am
Nor did the Skins mind shelling out 84 million or whatever it was to Landon Collins.
greengold
June 11, 2019 at 06:59 am
It is just laughable. Eddie Jackson is their FS, and Ha Ha is not a SS. Not at all.
Add to that, Amos had 9 PDs last season, playing SS. Ha Ha never reached 9 PDs in 6 years playing FS, where there are far more opportunities to make a play on the ball. I do not see that working in CHI.
CAG123
June 11, 2019 at 01:35 pm
Fangio kind of blurred those lines in his system both Amos and Jackson were interchangeable
dobber
June 11, 2019 at 04:14 pm
Bingo! Amos is not a true CF...he's more Morgan Burnett than he is Earl Thomas (speaking in terms of roles not in terms of caliber of player). Comparing Amos to HHCD is not quite apples and oranges, but it's still not an even playing field in terms of what they do best.
I'll be honest: I suspect that HHCD will not be a problem for the Bears in 2019. With the front 7 that he will be playing behind, his penchant for hanging back and picking off lame duck overthrows may have it's perfect match.
Pack88
June 11, 2019 at 07:22 am
You know this is like most debates in life, time will tell. By the halfway point of the 2019 season enough of HHCD's, poor efforts will be on tape, or the change of scenery and playing with a pass rush will change his playing style, that one side or the other will declare victory. So relax an watch!
egbertsouse
June 11, 2019 at 07:30 am
If Da Bears want a guy that hangs out 10-15 yards off the play waiting for tipped balls and overthrows to snag, then HHCD is their man.
Guam
June 11, 2019 at 07:40 am
I find it interesting that the Bears have publicly stated they got the better of the "safety swap" and HHCD graded out better than Amos, yet the Bears only offered HHCD a one year deal. If the Bears really believed HHCD was that good, why not lock him up for several years? It sounds to me more like the Bears are trying to motivate HHCD than thinking they actually got the better of the swap.
After watching a year of HHCD's poor tape, the Bears will come to the same conclusion the Packers and Redskins did - HHCD is not worth a significant NFL contract.
Lare
June 11, 2019 at 07:48 am
HHCD will face the Packers twice this season so you would think he would at least play hard during those games to prove a point after he was unceremoniously released and quickly replaced. If not, he may find himself released by his third team in two years and may be looking at a career change.
Leatherhead
June 11, 2019 at 09:17 am
Why not lock him up with a long term deal? Chicago has cap issues to deal with like everybody else. They actually got Dix for about $3 million for this year and it's a "prove-it" kind of deal.
Chicago can extend or cut ties depending on what they see. I think it was handled pretty well by them, actually.
I don't know Dix. Maybe he's not a good fit in the locker room. It's clear that Gutekunst/Pettine wanted to change a bad secondary so they let Burnett, Whitehead, Brice, Randall, and Rollins go and went out and got Williams, Alexander, Jackson, Savage, and Amos. They've rebuilt this secondary in essentially one season.
Time will tell, but our secondary had not been very good for quite a while and I actually think it has a chance to be better this year. I wish no ill will towards Dix, except when we play the Bears.
Guam
June 11, 2019 at 04:03 pm
At $3.5 million a year, the Bears have the cap room to lock up HHCD long term if they want to. That they didn't speaks volumes about their concerns about HHCD's play. This most certainly is a prove it contract and that says a great deal about a former first round draft choice who should be entering the prime of his career and signing a lucrative long term deal.
dobber
June 11, 2019 at 04:33 pm
HHCD has to be willing to accept a longer term contract at that reduced rate for that to fly. I can't see that in a player his age. He's playing in a defense with a front 7 that will likely make him look good and hide his deficiencies. I suspect he's going to want to get back on the market right away and take advantage of what might be a career year for him...but not necessarily a career year based on his own merits.
Leatherhead
June 11, 2019 at 04:35 pm
3.5 is for one year....a long term deal is going to be at a higher rate. The Bears are giving him a tryout, like we have Wilkerson last year. If he stays healthy and fits in, they can extend him.
PackfanNY
June 11, 2019 at 07:48 am
All you need to do is watch the tape. I don’t know exactly when but at some point he started to avoid contact at all expenses. He would whiff on running plays and make what seemed like half hearted tackles on completions. Once in awhile he would make an interception. Tape don’t lie. Funny thing too that the Redskins didn’t make much of an effort to re-sign a player they paid a 4th round pick for.
With that being said, Pack has correctly moved on and has a safety who covers well, tackles and doesn’t get beat deep. Happy to add Adrian Amos.
Leatherhead
June 11, 2019 at 09:24 am
I'll take your word, but it doesn't explain why he was a team leader in tackles every year. 2nd in 2016, 2nd in 2017.
My attitude is that we've had a bad secondary for quite a while and he was part of it so I'm not going to carry water for him, but I think some of the criticisms of him are off the mark.
Coldworld
June 11, 2019 at 09:50 am
Let’s see, when does a deep safety tackle? Dix rarely played in the box, so its typically going to be when the opponents get deep penetration.
Dix has played in a pass dominant age, so I think one can assume that his tackles were predominantly against the pass. To tackle, the opposing player must first have caught and controlled the ball.
Therefore, the ideal opportunity for any traditional safety to rack up tackles comes on a team that is not disrupting the passer allowing medium and deep throws. Not defending those tries at the catch and thus allowing the catcher to run after catching. In other words, by playing on a porous defense and by playing off receivers such that the tackle predominates over the pass defensed. That, by the way, is a weakness with big play seekers, because room also assists jumping a route.
Does that remind you of any defense that you might have seen and any Safety? It sure as heck reminds me of Capers’ late defenses and HHCD’s big play or extreme caution approach.
Leatherhead
June 11, 2019 at 11:30 am
You're making a lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there to justify your narrative that a first round pick and Pro Bowl selection sucks.
Here's what I think: The Packers just haven't been able to put guys on the field that can cover. AND there's been some bad communication that has led to big plays against us.
Now Dix, as a safety and a veteran, should have been part of the solution, and he wasn't. When he was replaced by Tramon, he wasn't being replaced by a better tackler. Tramon has always been a good cover guy but he's never been a real plus as a tackler. That's fine.
As I've said before, I think it's hard to evaluate individual swimming skills when the ship is sinking. I don't think Dix sucks, and I don't think he's the poor excuse for a tackler that you do. I think he's a pretty decent football player who didn't improve our secondary. I'm fine with the fact he was released, and I'm happy with Amos.
Coldworld
June 11, 2019 at 12:05 pm
I actually wasn’t a get rid of Dixer. Moreover, I am not saying he sucks. I am saying that he makes splash plays but that he is not reliable in routine play. I doubt that you disagree on the splash plays, so perhaps we can agree that if he was even average in between those events, he would have got his next contract in GB. With the Redskins, he was exactly the same.
In retrospect, his play is not what one builds around. He is a luxury type. Ironically, the most logical pairing would have been Amos with Dix, but the Bears have a better version of Dix already ensconced and I believe Savage has the potential to be better as well. Either way, GB needed an Amos type. Dix’s fit in Chicago looks very dubious to me. Washington were safety needy but reluctant to commit to him as well, perhaps for the same reasons.
flackcatcher
June 11, 2019 at 01:59 pm
From 2014-2016 the Packers defense was very good to outstanding under Dom Capers. In 2015, that defense carried that Packer team into the playoffs when the offense was completely crap. One of the few years where the defense did not take massive hits to it core players or starters. Why do I mention this? Well, outside the loss of 2 CB, the Packers had unusual depth in the secondary, allowing both Clinton-Dix and Bennett to play off the ball and sliding Hyde in the Box in their big 5 package. Clinton-Dix had the luxury to play back and take the angles in Capers system. (That was the year the Packers lost all their WR, the year of JANiS!) Fast forward to 2016 when everything went to hell personal wise. Massive losses on the O line and wiping out of both LB and CB forced Green Bay to be 'creative'. I still stay 2016 was the finest coaching job Dom Capers and Mike McCarthy did. Capers had every DB playing out of postion, everyone expect for Clinton-Dix. Packers could have, but did not move Clinton-Dix into the Box. Why. Because he was to put it plainly, a very poor tackler. Packers put Brice in and moved Bennett into the Box and had Hyde playing the slot, or in the case of the Bears game CB. ( Oh and let us not forget the Packers had and a undrafted rookie free agent playing CB. And remember both Peppers and CM3 both playing out of position at a pro bowel level during that run. Unreal.) My point is the team understood that Clinton-Dix had some real physical limits, but was effective as long as he did not have to play outside of his comfort zone. When he did (as in 2017 when the entire secondary group was wiped out, or in 2018 when he could not, or would not adapt to Pettine's system) he was exposed. Game changed and Clinton-Dix's physical limits got exposed, it happens. The 'Dixer' is a good football player, but either he adapts to the new pass rules, or he will be gone. Like what happened to both the FB and LB positions, the NFL is changing the Safety position, and maybe, not for the better.
dobber
June 11, 2019 at 06:51 pm
Clinton Dix played a crap-ton more defensive snaps than just about everyone else in those seasons as well, where many other regulars missed significant snaps.
Yes, safeties tend to be among team leaders in tackles on most teams: they see the play develop and are naturally relied on to flow with the play or attack downhill. AJ Hawk was among the team leaders in tackles for many years, but many people here were begging for the Packers to do better.
busarider29
June 11, 2019 at 07:48 am
Bears fan here....and I come in peace. My "problem" with Amos is that he doesn't make many splash plays. He seems like just a guy back there filling the safety position and would make an occasional play, like a TFL, or once in a while help on a sack. It wasn't consistently all the time though. He just didn't stand out like a lot of other defenders on the Bears D. He's pretty good in run support, but again, I think you can get just about any safety that can do that. I want a safety that can make splash plays, particularly INTs. Clinton-Dix?? Perhaps. We'll see. That's why the Bears signed him to a cheap 1-year deal. It's a "prove it" deal. My glass half-full approach thinks that perhaps putting Dix on a defense that has a lot of play-makers around him, and pairing him with his former college teammate (E. Jackson) back there will get him going and making plays again. Perhaps this will be the perfect fit and environment for him. All we can do is wait-and-see, both on Dix and Amos. Bear Down!!
marpag1
June 11, 2019 at 09:33 am
I'd have to agree with much of what you say. Amos is solid and dependable, but you'd like to see something a bit more game-changing. Still, definitely solid.
If anyone wants my opinion, I think that for the Bears to pick up HHCD for 3.5M in a 1-year contract is actually a terrific deal. But understand this... it's kind of like getting a "terrific deal" on a sixer of Bud Light, when you could have paid a little more and gotten, y'know.... real beer.
And that's the kind of "terrific deal" you probably don't even want, at least not as a starter. You get what you pay for.
Coldworld
June 11, 2019 at 10:04 am
Ironically, you actually stated the reason why Amos is an upgrade. They key to his value for the Packers is precisely that he doesn’t give up many big plays and doesn’t allow soft yards. That is why we are excited to have him and not his replacement in Chicago.
HHCD will certainly make some big plays, but it is what he does in between those and the impact on the score line that led to him bouncing out of Green Bay and why the Redskins let him visit Chicago without an offer. His play in Washington was eerily similar to that in GB despite the motivation of being in a contract year playing for a team needing a long term safety.
dobber
June 11, 2019 at 04:21 pm
The value in Amos is maybe not so much in what he is as a player but in the player he's putting on the bench. Kentrell Brice, Josh Jones...sometimes you just need that steadying influence over 40 times or potential. Amos's steadiness will create a lot of room for Savage to take advantage of his athleticism, learn on the job, and still make plays.
I wouldn't expect a Bears fan to understand the issues the Packers have had at safety since the loss of Nick Collins.
Thegreatreynoldo
June 12, 2019 at 03:01 am
I tend to agree that HHCD will prove to be a good player for the money. Bears fans take for granted safeties who come up to make the tackle short of the first down marker and generally limit gains. After they watch HHCD herd a player out of bounds but allow him to reach the first down marker a few times, they will understand my main complaint about HHCD.
I do think that there is a good chance HHCD, knowing he is playing for a long-term contract, will become a more physical player. At least for one year.
stockholder
June 11, 2019 at 07:51 am
The Bears still suck. Nothing more needs to be made of this. He's now a bear, " he sucks". He'd be perfect, for a charmin commercial. When the bears get torched this year. Will we ask, "does a bear shit in the Woods"? No. On the Field. We will say Dix needed to go. We needed a change for the better. The blame game is over in Green Bay. It doesn't matter if Dix plays well or not. We only need are packers too. Amos brings experience and a healthier attitude to the packers. Lets not look back. The debate isn't how Dix will do for the Bears. It's how Amos will make our secondary better. Positive Attitudes are contagious. It's an emotion to achieve better. This secondary will be one of the most feared again. Smarter! Tighter! Stronger!
Demon
June 11, 2019 at 08:06 am
Admittedly I dont know much about Amos, but I do know plenty anout Clinton Dix. What the Bears are doing trying to make him feel like he is not the last woman in the bar at closing time. Although his contract value and the fact the skins had no interest in bringing him back after trading for him would say otherwise.
Leatherhead
June 11, 2019 at 12:00 pm
IF it were true that the Skins had no interest in bringing him back, then you'd have a point. But it isn't, so you don't. It was well-covered in the DC sports media, and on NFL Network, that the Redskins were interested in bringing him back even AFTER they signed Collins.
So Dix signed a one-year, $3.5 million, make good deal with a team that was #1 in defense last year and a playoff team. Meanwhile, Tre Boston, who many of us suggested as his replacement, is unsigned by anybody.
The narrative that Dix sucks is just wrong. Or you think that the team that finished #1 in defense last year doesn't know what it's doing when it comes to defensive players. Take your pick.
Coldworld
June 11, 2019 at 12:14 pm
If you read, both what I wrote and what others did at the time, you would in fact prove yourself wrong before you wrote your post. If you did, you wouldn’t be swimming against the tide so often.
You always claim you can’t do research when you can’t argue a point. That’s a shame. However, try reading posts at least. Dix doesn’t suck. Brice sucked last year.
Dix did, however, prove to be a net liability and was traded despite the cupboard being bare and a high priced free agent and draft picks spent. He may not have sucked but he is not a foundation stone player by a long, long way.
marpag1
June 11, 2019 at 01:16 pm
In my mind, at least, it seems pretty clear that one of the key factors in getting rid of Clinton-Dix was the fact that he went a little bit rouge at the end. Amid all of the talk that McCarthy had lost the locker room, HHCD took some pretty direct pot shots at what he perceived as a lack of leadership. You definitely get the feeling that he became a bit of a bad apple in the locker room (just like D Randall before him). I'd guess that didn't sit well with the coaching staff, the front office and a few key players, and when coupled with the fact that HHCD was set to be a free agent, the Packers made the move to get as much value as they could, because they weren't going to resign him anyway.
None of this means that he was a great player, of course. He isn't. His ceiling is probably average starter. But it doesn't mean he's dog crap, either. I think his attitude ushered him out of town as much as his pedestrian play on the field. Given the right circumstances, it's possible that he could be a decent player for the Bears.
Also, while it may be true that the Redskins were interested to bring him back, they obviously DIDN'T think that they wanted to match $3.5 million on a one-year, no-strings-attached contract. That's not exactly high praise.
Demon
June 11, 2019 at 05:43 pm
Does anyone know what league minimum is for a 6yr vet? Old School is saying the Skins went hard after HHCD. However he signed a 1 year 3.5 mil contract which has got to be close to league minimum. What exactly were the Skins offering 10$ per hour and a corndog on game day?
Coldworld
June 11, 2019 at 06:11 pm
Last year somewhere around $800k.
The Bears didn’t go hard financially. The Redskins hadn’t offered him, which indicates that they weren’t going to offer a big deal. My guess is his agent had an idea of where that was. Moreover they were willing to let him visit elsewhere.
The Bears offered him a starting position by all accounts and sold him on a prove it deal that likely exceeded what he expected from Washington. As Dobber points out, he gets the chance to play in a very good D. My feeling however, is that Amos was the anchor that allowed their playmaker to play. Dix isn’t that kind of character. He likes to hang back and poach too. Not sure how that will work in practice. That said, they played together at Alabama
Either way, with the early signings gone, the Bears got Dix, and they have trumpeted the value nature of the signing. In comparison, Wilkerson got almost 50% more last year (5m as opposed to 3.5m) as a tryout.
Indeed Dix himself claimed to have had more on the table elsewhere and to have given a Chicago a discount to get the deal done. Take that with a pinch of salt, but it pretty much trashes the argument that the Bears went after him hard. If anything, as Dobber implied, Dix went hard after getting a shot to revive his career on the best defense at their weakest spot. Perhaps he will, but that doesn’t change the facts or make him an upgrade over Amos for either team.
Leatherhead
June 12, 2019 at 10:42 am
No,Old School is saying they wanted to resign him. Fact. "Go hard after him" is an opinion, yourwords, and not what I said. I understand that you aren't a very good reader, but please get someone to help you with the big words before you are comp!etely wrong again.
Coldworld
June 13, 2019 at 05:07 pm
Then Old School doesn’t know his facts. I read others, your assertions seem typically at odds with third party sources, so I only take your words at face value when I find a basis. In this case I found no basis. Sorry, facts before fiction may not be convenient to your case.
Roadrunner23
June 11, 2019 at 08:52 am
Can’t wait for ARodg to light up Mr. Dix, should be fun!
Go Pack!
Since'61
June 11, 2019 at 09:11 am
Dix was hurting the team with his ineffective play. Whatever he does going forward with another team doesn’t matter. His play or lack of was hurting the Packers. Therefore he had to go one way or the other.
As for Amos we need him to play solidly for the Packers. Hopefully he learns Pettine’s defense and fulfills his role. Also he can mentor Savage and help his development.
There are times when teams need to move on from players. For the Packers it was time to move on from Dix, Perry, Cobb etc. Thanks, Since ‘61
greengold
June 12, 2019 at 11:15 am
Very simple, and very true.
I went to a bunch of Packers practices that were open to the public, for years. I really never saw a player half ass his warmups quite like Ha Ha. I believe his play matched his warmups. We cannot have that and we no longer have to worry about that kind of attitude on our Packers team.
Coldworld
June 11, 2019 at 10:59 am
Seems like Josh Jones reported for minicamp.
Lare
June 11, 2019 at 03:31 pm
Yes, but he's not practicing due to a hamstring issue. With his lack of football instincts that injury won't help him getting traded to another team.
Freezn
June 11, 2019 at 11:27 am
The packers were right in getting rid of Ha Ha and have taken one of the quiet bears defensive player who only did his job when it needed to be done and not running away from tackles. Our safties will make chicagos safties look like amateurs. We got the better exchange
TheBigCheeze
June 11, 2019 at 11:52 am
actually....I think HHCD will perform well this season....which only goes to show that he had a crappy attitude at GB......good riddance....
CAG123
June 11, 2019 at 01:59 pm
Where are these assumptions about his attitude coming from? Are y’all just making sh*t up? Not once has there been a report about his locker room presence, when that article came out about Rodgers he was one of the players that came to his defense, he still shows love to all his former teammates on social media. Where is this narrative coming from?You don’t have to label everyone that no longer plays for the Packers a locker room cancer sometimes teams just move on. Damn.
Tundraboy
June 11, 2019 at 12:06 pm
I wonder how long it will take for his fellow Bears grow sick of his style of tackling or non tackling.
IceBowl
June 11, 2019 at 01:11 pm
If HaHa (or his agent) is smart, we see him use all his abilities to play great and earn the big contract.
I wouldn't be that team though. He might regress. :-)
Coldworld
June 11, 2019 at 02:59 pm
One would have thought that logic would have applied in GB last season and, after the trade, in Washington. Perhaps it will be different in Chicago, but I do not really see anything to suggest confidence that it will.
dobber
June 11, 2019 at 04:25 pm
He has a remarkably talented front 7 in front of him that helps generate turnovers at a tremendous rate. He's lined up to look really good--at least statistically--behind that group. Problem is, with Jackson there, he's going to be forced to play more in the box, and I don't know that it really helps to hide his deficiencies.
Coldworld
June 11, 2019 at 06:17 pm
You may be right, and I think he is banking on that. I still think that he will struggle to do what Amos did best and that it was that combination of strengths that made the Bears’ safety play so effective.
Dix’s headline stats have always been somewhat misleading. He was our leading pass interceptor last season despite leaving half way. Other than Old School, that stat does not seem to have made anyone here rethink the wisdom of his replacement. That’s pretty telling.
Thegreatreynoldo
June 12, 2019 at 03:09 am
I am assuming that HHCD will play FS in Chicago. Jackson can probably play both, but I guess I thought he'd play more in the box.
IceBowl
June 12, 2019 at 02:04 pm
Hey dobber,
You say .... '"He has a remarkably talented front 7 in front of him......" That is true, but does that make it better or worse for HaHa?
For the Pack, he wiffed on too many tackle opportunities no matter the front 7.
So, will a "remarkably talented front 7" give him many more opportunities to wiff??
I wonder?
IceBowl
June 11, 2019 at 03:37 pm
Coldworld,
Right. He has 30 more teams to fool. He's no "Rudy."
Mojo
June 11, 2019 at 03:43 pm
To be honest, I don't know much about Amos.
I have seen Ha Ha play for four and a half years and was never impressed, not even in his pro-bowl years and I was hoping he'd be good when drafted.
Seemed like most of his picks came on overthrows. I can recall one really nice pick he made with great anticipation but that's about it. I don't recall him reacting to a throw and knocking it down like the better safeties do or locking down a receiver. For that matter, seemed like he was no where to be found on many a deep pass.
Bad angles, not much in run support, king of the late to the pile, that's when he's in the view at all.
So in my opinion, if Amos is even average it's an upgrade.
Adorabelle
June 12, 2019 at 08:03 pm
Anytime teams that play twice a season basically trade players at one position there is going to be a lot of talk about it.
Clinton-Dix has ball skills and with the Bears level of pressure he could be in line for some interceptions in the Bears defense. He had some good statistics in the past for Green Bay (a 100 tackle season and a 5 interception season) but it was clear he had given up on the season if not the team and he needed to move on. The Bears got a low end contract for him which seems like a great deal for them.
The Packers needed a more physical presence and a cog they could depend on. The Packers defense has been passive the last few seasons to say the least. Amos has missed 4 games in 4 seasons and appears to be a solid locker room presence, a sure tackler, and he appeared to show improvement last season with 9 passes defended and 2 interceptions.
Both teams have the player they want it would seem.
IceBowl
June 12, 2019 at 08:42 pm
Adorabelle,
You say .... "Both teams have the player they want it would seem."
And the implications of that want should serve the Pack just fine.