Zach Tom Shines vs Bengals, Is Ready to Be Full Time Starter
Tom displayed his quality and versatility in the pre-season opener.
By markoldacres
There were plenty of encouraging performances in the Packers’ 36-19 pre-season win over the Bengals, but the most meaningful might have been that of Zach Tom.
Tom’s assured play at multiple position’s served as more confirmation he’s ready to start when the real games begin.
For Jordan Love’s lone touchdown of his short appearance in Friday night’s game, Tom locked down the right side, giving his quarterback time to float a pass to Romeo Doubs for the score.
Tom used not only his stellar athleticism to mirror the Bengals pass rusher, but also a newly found firm anchor to stand strong and keep him away from Love.
The offensive lineman told Larry McCarren earlier in training camp that he’s put on 15-20 pounds during the offseason to help him hold up better. Tom said at one point he got up to 315lbs.
David Bakhtiari has noticed the difference, telling reporters: “He Hasn't missed too many meals, finally has a little weight to help him out”.
Tom lined up at center later in the game, where he has been competing with Josh Myers for reps in training camp, and showed off his elite movement skills, getting out into space and flattening a Bengals defender.
His athleticism is well documented. At the 2022 NFL Scouting Combine, Tom performed the shuttle drill in 4.47 seconds, which placed him on an exclusive list of lineman, many of whom went on to be quality starters or stars in the NFL.
Tom was Green Bay’s third-highest graded offensive player versus Cincinnati at PFF, earning a 78.5 (above average) grade.
He was thrown into the fire at times during his rookie season, having to start on short notice on multiple occasions and performing well.
Bakhtiari praised Tom’s demeanor and attitude, saying: "He always was pretty calm, had an arrogance to him, which is good. You've got to have a little s*** to you to come in as a rookie”.
On the growth he expects from Tom in his sophomore campaign, Bakhtiari said: “The comfort, knowing what it means to be a pro, knows the offense, can take next step in mastering the offense. Excited to see him continue to grow and play."
Tom has been competing with Yosh Nijman at right tackle during training camp, with Bakhtiari’s rest schedule often meaning Nijman and Tom have started with the first team at the same time, at left and right tackle respectively.
It’s therefore been difficult to tell who has a leg up, and this was also the case on Friday night, as both men started as Bakhtiari unsurprisingly sat out the exhibition matchup.
But even if on purely a performance basis, the battle between Tom and Nijman ends even, the tie should go to the younger player as the Packers look to build a new core.
Tom is more than three years younger than Nijman and is under contract for another two years after 2023.
Nijman will be an unrestricted free agent at the end of the upcoming season and is in line to get a significant contract from some team in need of competent offensive line play.
Due to Tom’s ability to play multiple positions, there is a school of thought that leaving him on the bench and using him as a super sub would be beneficial. But that argument needs to end. Whether it be at right tackle or center, Zach Tom is a starter.
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Mark Oldacres is a sports writer from Birmingham, England and a Green Bay Packers fan. You can follow him on twitter at @MarkOldacres
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Comments (83)
Hi-steppin Samkon Gado
August 13, 2023 at 07:19 am
Unfortunately Tom might have to play center and that's not even his best position. The Meyers pick is not coming together unfortunately.
cheezyone
August 13, 2023 at 08:26 am
According to Gute and his scouts, they thought Tom's best position coming out of college was at center.
greengold
August 13, 2023 at 04:40 pm
True. Gutekunst went out of his way to make mention of that, unprompted.
greengold
August 13, 2023 at 04:43 pm
Myers played well in CIN.
Leatherhead
August 13, 2023 at 04:46 pm
Is that why he's been the starter every game he's played?
Myers is a good center; just watch him play.
greengold
August 13, 2023 at 05:02 pm
Correct.
Coldworld
August 13, 2023 at 05:43 pm
Myers was decent over a very small snap count, as was everyone else who started. The only starter who really did anything notable in his original position was our pro bowl LG, who played a few more snaps. Tom and Runyon did do pretty well at center too.
stockholder
August 13, 2023 at 07:31 am
Tom should be the Rt.
It's been a problem a lot longer than Center.
So Keep him there.
The OL shake-up isn't done yet.
Things will change next year.
And the draft will fix that.
Untylu1968
August 13, 2023 at 09:36 am
You're 100% correct. One, if not both of our first round picks will be used to rebuild and replenish the o-line next year.
jannesbjornson
August 13, 2023 at 11:43 am
1-2 years too late. See what transpires over the next three weeks on a trade , or pick bones off the waiver wire. Maybe the Bears cut Patrick...
SicSemperTyrannis
August 13, 2023 at 01:37 pm
Wasn't Myers our third string C in recent years? He's great at third string.
Leatherhead
August 13, 2023 at 04:48 pm
No. He's been our starter since he got here, and he's started every game he was healthy enough, and he played more snaps on the Oline than any other Packer last year, and the Packers had one of the better offensive lines in the league.
greengold
August 13, 2023 at 05:04 pm
#2 Overall in DVOA per Football Outsiders.
Coldworld
August 13, 2023 at 05:44 pm
Yes, great unless you watched it. DVOA debunked as a truly indicative stat.
greengold
August 13, 2023 at 08:59 pm
Also true.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 14, 2023 at 08:02 pm
It's those situations where Myers got beat that concern me. They keep happening. Will be interesting to see how he cares against the Pats.
stockholder
August 13, 2023 at 01:48 pm
JB----No Trade = think of it this way.
TT spent a #1 choice on Bryan Bulaga.
He ended up at RT.
jannesbjornson
August 13, 2023 at 02:10 pm
I would have taken Broderick Jones over Van Ness. Then, Tom fits as the center. Water under the sinking bridge.
stockholder
August 13, 2023 at 02:25 pm
Yes - I know you would have.
But Tom changed that.
1. People are reading too much into
Tom at Center.
2. He is staying at RT unless Myers gets hurt.
That way they can throw a RT in.
3. A. Jones was a 1000 yd. Rusher.
With Myers at center.
4. truthfully the Tackles are how you build a OL.
5. It's easier for a RB to block a inside breakdown.
greengold
August 13, 2023 at 05:24 pm
Agree.
jannesbjornson
August 13, 2023 at 05:48 pm
I typically like # one s, or two picks at each corner. Bhaktiari was a gem. Myers has movement skills. His issue is dealing with the bullrush. The stunts against him may be on Runyan.
Coldworld
August 13, 2023 at 05:48 pm
Jones’ running yards came mostly between the tackles? Not so much.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 14, 2023 at 08:07 pm
Correct. #33 gained and #28 didn't because of their styles. AJ succeeded mostly by eluding everybody rather than via effective blocking. You might get a few Ws like that against mediocre teams, but it's not a winning strategy.
I want to see a road grader at C.
Dooniebrewers
August 13, 2023 at 04:10 pm
They may pick one or two OL next year. But let’s not forget about Walker and Jones. We don’t need to pick up rejects.
Coldworld
August 13, 2023 at 05:46 pm
We may do at G/C unless you like Newman as first up reserve or Hanson at C if Tom is RT. Rhyan may yet come on, but he’s not there as yet.
LLCHESTY
August 13, 2023 at 08:42 pm
Not sure Newman is going to make it past cutdown day. That wasn't a good look for him on Friday.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 14, 2023 at 08:09 pm
Do we have 5 who don't start who clearly beat him?
SicSemperTyrannis
August 13, 2023 at 01:42 pm
Unt, next year's draft does look good for O linemen. Not legendary, but more than just solid. Hopefully we have few enough needs that Gutey can trade up to top of class for them. Lots of them are listed as T, probably because of higher projected earnings. While it's rare to get instant improvement out of a rookie, maybe we add 3 and find 1?
greengold
August 13, 2023 at 05:10 pm
Packers with a projected 11 draft picks for 2024.
greengold
August 13, 2023 at 04:45 pm
RT was not a problem last season until Yosh was starting the last 3 weeks with an injured shoulder.
Football Outsiders ranked PACKERS RIGHT TACKLE DVOA #3 in the NFL last season.
GB also ranked #2 in the NFL MID/GUARD, with our runs there our highest frequency at 45%.
^^^^
THIS makes me question PFF Run Blocking Grades being in the 50s-60s for Myers & Runyan.
Both cannot be correct, unless we’re running everything behind Jenkins, which we are not.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 14, 2023 at 08:28 pm
GG I like stats and every other measurable, but what they don't show is situational football. I remember situations last season when we couldn't run, unless #33 eluded everybody. Goodson might be able to do some of that. Wilson is a great downhill runner with vision to not run into his blockers and exploit the opening they create. Great juke, I just haven't seen the lateral movement of a AJ / Goodson. Maybe he's got it or can add it to his repertoire?
Myers getting pushed around and sometimes flattened too might just be because our D line is that powerful? I don't want to line up against them! And I'm sure Myers would hold up against some teams. And for all we know it's being next to JRJ that creates the weakness?
Just wondering if there's any way to improve. I don't know how many situations this became a problem, I likely remember them as being more frequent than they actually were just because losing those battles hurt.
Since'61
August 13, 2023 at 07:35 am
I've previously posted that our best 5 OL from left to right just might prove to be: Bak, Jenkins, Tom, Runyon or Myers?, and Nijman.
I don't know if Myers can play effectively at Guard but he might be better than Runyon.
Bottom line is that the Packers still have two more weeks to figure this out. If Caleb Jones has a serious injury our OL depth could be impacted which would only make the decisions at Center and RT even more critical for Week 1. Let's see where this goes. Thanks, Since '61
greengold
August 13, 2023 at 12:53 pm
Agree with your current top 5 Since.
I have been back & forth on the Bak issue. This year’s lost cost to the interested teams will up the trade value, IMO.
TGR pointed to a period of proving time playing well as bringing highest value next year, but I question that.
Acquiring team would want him in their fold asap, with the proving having been done last year. Just my take on it.
Other options are just playing him out 2023 since he’s paid for, but… No guarantees in 2024, a year older, and another seasons wear & tear, with that monster money price tag.
Another option is reworking his deal with plan to keep him in GB for the remainder of his career. This would push a ton of cash on cap into the future, but we may be able to swing it and realize a return on the top play he provides. Not without risk though: health.
What’s best for the team is proving to be a very interesting question.
We can ride 2023 with Bak, Jenkins, Myers or Tom winner at C, Runyan/Rhyan winner RG, and Nijman. Draft more help next year at OL, and just review options then, but… that failure to have a better plan might cost us, big time.
Erring on side of performance vs. cost is probably best for 2023.
I do not want to make the Jets better trading Bak there for ANYTHING less than removal of conditions on AR R2, making it their R1, PLUS their 2025 R1.
Since'61
August 13, 2023 at 05:11 pm
Agree gg. Another option could be if the season does not go well for the Packers and a contender needs OT help we could trade him for pick(s) while the contender obtains up their missing piece on the OL for a playoff run.
Either way I think the Packers need to move on after this season. If he has a great season with the Packers his trade value goes up but the opportunity to redo a more affordable deal and stay with the Packers goes down, unless he wants to finish his career in Green Bay.
We'll just have to wait to see how his health and his performance holds up for 2023. Thanks, Since '61
greengold
August 13, 2023 at 05:52 pm
Imagine if we shock the world and win it all with Bakhtiari this season, he’ll remain a Packer until he’s dragged away! Lol.
That’s my ultimate scenario. Him retiring a Super Bowl Champion, maybe multiple times with the Packers. That’s the dream right there.
Tundraboy
August 13, 2023 at 08:31 pm
Agree on both Best 5 and outlook, it's still early.
mrtundra
August 13, 2023 at 07:41 am
Whatever position Zach Tom Bombadil plays, he will be one of the 5 best players on the OL. Interesting that they tried Runyan out at Center vs Cincy. That would put Rhyan at RG and either Tom or Yosh at RT. I doubt they go with Runyon at Center. I still think Tom will start at Center. Yosh deserves to play RT.
Guam
August 13, 2023 at 08:11 am
Agreed that the Packers best starting line has Tom at center and Nijman at RT. Both are good enough to be starters. That combo would require either Walker or Jones to develop quickly into a reserve tackle or an injury to either starting tackle would force a substantial shuffling of the O-line.
Myers at center and Tom at RT with Nijman as reserve tackle cushions any major reshuffles, but it doesn't put your best fivestarters on the field.
Coldworld
August 13, 2023 at 08:34 am
Tom at RT also avoids LaFleur having to demote. He is horribly bad at that once he’s anointed a player.
dobber
August 13, 2023 at 09:57 am
I'm not going to say that C isn't Tom's best position, but we have very little data to back that up aside from coach speak and a GM talking off the cuff. Which alignment gives the best overall play? It may be that the coaches think Tom > Myers, but that Tom >> Nijman. There are a lot of moving pieces here, and that's without looking deeper on the depth chart at guys like Rhyan, Wallace, or Jones.
In all the question is, which of these alignments really plays best:: Tom-Runyan-Nijman, Tom-Myers-Nijman, Myers-Runyan-Tom, or Myers-Runyan-Nijman. So far, it seems the coaching staff seems to prefer option 3 (Myers-Runyan-Tom) as evidenced by the team's depth chart.
Coldworld
August 13, 2023 at 10:38 am
If Tom was our second best tackle we’d be moving him to left T as soon as Bakh went out and only then bring in Nijman. Tom was actually better at left than right last year and we know moving him left or right doesn’t phase him. Their handling of this group just begets questions. Meanwhile the center remains an issue while T need not be.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 14, 2023 at 08:36 pm
Nijman and Tom are both in our best 5. IMHO, but I think this much is pretty clear.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 13, 2023 at 10:41 am
Dobber,
it could have another layer of complexity? Myers at C, JRJ RG, Tom RT, leaves Nijman ready to substitute for Bakh with no other changes needed. If they think Nijman's best position is LT this makes a lot of sense, along with Bakh's iffy availability, potential trade value while still healthy, and cap hit next season.
IF this is what they're thinking, Nijman benefits from GB moving on from Bakh. Would really suck to lose both. And I don't see any basis for Nijman's evaluation actually falling, he's solid to dominant.
dobber
August 13, 2023 at 12:31 pm
The OL situation is in flux with (as you point out) Bakh likely moving on, Runyan in the last year of his contract, and Myers entering the final year of his deal next year. Who do you keep/pay? Who do you replace? Is that replacement in house?
It's likely that whatever happens with the OL this season, we'll be having similar conversations a year from now.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 13, 2023 at 01:49 pm
Yup. Fortunately next draft looks good for O linemen. Hopefully we don't have much else we need. Would be amazing to take three in the first two rounds, lol.
greengold
August 13, 2023 at 09:09 pm
Could VERY easily see the Packers spending an R1 on the right Safety if available.
Coldworld
August 13, 2023 at 02:27 pm
We may also be having yet more “what the hell were they thinking” conversations of the kind we’ve had consistently since the Championship switcheroo disaster.
They are over thinking or over reluctant to demote a guy they’ve fixed in their heads as a starter in my opinion, probably both. After last year, the argument for deference isn’t strong. To illustrate Newman and Hanson could both be off this roster.
Nijman could end up sitting and Tom playing a position they played Nijman at injured last year to avoid playing him and after they avoided getting Nijman practice there in favor of Newman and Jenkins, whom they aren’t even considering. All the while the consensus rated weaker links (and the ones that I’m concerned about from just watching) go effectively unchallenged.
Yet again they’ve not really tried young players showing well in camp, this year Jones or Walker, at RT despite good camp impressions. We are falling over backwards to avoid pushing Myers or Runyon. Is that because our head is firmly in the sand or just in the clouds?
Tundraboy
August 13, 2023 at 08:41 pm
I think you nailed it. A lot of overthinking and indecisiveness. Hopefully one or more players performance will force the issue, and make the decision for them. I hope.
Tundraboy
August 13, 2023 at 08:33 pm
"Myers at center and Tom at RT with Nijman as reserve tackle cushions any major reshuffles, but it doesn't put your best five starters on the field."
Please forward to 1265 ,asap.
dblbogey
August 13, 2023 at 12:13 pm
I think Yosh is better at LT. Hasn't impressed me at RT. They pulled him from the Lions game because he was getting beat, and Tom took over with no more problems. It's nice having Yosh to back up Bakh. As long as Newman and Hanson don't ever have to play, I'm good. Hopefully Rhyan becomes at least a decent backup at guard.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 13, 2023 at 01:56 pm
dbl, if you're comparing Nijman in week 17, his shoulder was hurt. Also, he's recently said he wants to focus on being great at both T positions. That's not the same as doing it though. It seems to me that if they start Tom at RT, the plan is to hold Nijman in reserve to sub for Bakh as needed, and that way no other shuffling is needed.
It's the simplest solution. Arguably not the best, but might work. Obviously we're all nervous about C being our weak spot. This could shut down our run game and force JL10 to go air raid.14 receivers targeted Friday night, it might even work; not my preferred strategy for week 1 though. Myers may well hold up against some teams? I wonder about that matchup in Chicago ...
Coldworld
August 13, 2023 at 02:38 pm
Nijman had a torn shoulder after the Vikings game. It’s not a secret, it’s been pointed out many times. They trotted him out to avoid putting Tom there despite Nijman being one armed effectively, to compound that, they did the same the week before.
Hardly a basis for confidence in what they are doing. Nor is the fact that to get better at RT, they’ve admitted Nijman needs practice with the mirrored technique, so they are playing him mostly at left.
I don’t want the reassurance of better players on benches than some on the field. We saw that with Nijman and Tom last year. So much better that their RT and supposedly rising star C/G that kept them sat may both not make the roster.
dobber
August 13, 2023 at 02:00 pm
I had to give you an upvote just for the LOTR reference....
TxFred
August 13, 2023 at 07:41 am
The sooner the staff can figure out Tom's best position, get him there, leave him there. "Jack of all trades & master of none." Does work for this potential all pro. He has got to grow & develop at one position.
Occasionally, playing another position might happen. Then back to what he does best. Might have to go to the scap heap & pick up a "scratch ' dent" OL. The second team group is not the answer. Fact, the weakest area of this team. Rate of injuries in the NFL even for a few games can take us out. GPG!!!
SicSemperTyrannis
August 13, 2023 at 10:46 am
Fred, I've been saying this for a while. Jenkins says he looks forward to being able to concentrate on LG for a whole season. Let all these guys excel!
I understand versatility but looking at some of these plays, our O linemen are required to do a LOT of different things, all in one position. 10 guys with the playbook mastered mentally, + the physical ability to actually do it - that's a tall order. Should be the goal IMHO.
Coldworld
August 13, 2023 at 08:31 am
I generally agree that the tie should go to the younger player. However, as you concede, this isn’t a RT battle in isolation. The question with Tom isn’t whether he’s the best RT. The question is where is the best differential between him and another player?
Tom is arguably an upgrade at RT, RG, and C now he’s added some mass. There’s also the lingering question of how much someone not Bakh has to play LT. If that is a real possibility and we are willing to start Nijman on the blind side, that raises questions to me over how much better Tom is at RT.
I want my best 5 out there as often as possible. To me the first 4 on performance are Bakh, Jenkins, Tom and Nijman. Since Nijman is a pure T, he should be a constant at RT getting the experience with the mirror technique they didn’t let him acquire last year. Tom should be backing up Bakh and playing C.
In addition to permutations, they’re the issue of criticality of positions. LT is the premium, but after that there’s debate as to whether C or RT is the more important. At this point with a new QB starter with some mobility, I think the key is C and preventing the pocket being collapsed up the middle and opening opportunities for running between the tackles to keep Ds honest. C is a cerebral position and Tom’s well suited for that. Who knows, maybe he is a pick to make us forget Humphrey.
So yes, Tom appears unquestionably a starter, but that should not be at RT, and Nijman should not be sitting if Bakh is playing. I’m not ignoring Jenkins’ ability to play C or T, but moving him to C would just open a can of worms at G that would be much worse.
Bakh, Jenkins, Tom, Runyon/Myers, Nijman is, I think, by far our best option. Let Myers and Runyon battle it out. If Bakh can’t play, I think it’s time to see if Caleb Jones (if recovered) or Walker can play RT, move Nijman and leave Tom at C. Both Jones and Walker have been good in camp. It’s time to test that not avoid unseating incumbents it as LaFleur tends to do.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 13, 2023 at 10:52 am
CW that's an interesting take!
I'm in favor of assigning all positions ASAP and giving them time to gel. BEFORE playing da Bares. I'm pretty accepting of only 6 wins this season if that happens, but a w week 1 will be HUGE for everything.
HawkPacker
August 13, 2023 at 11:37 am
'Both Jones and Walker have been good in camp.'
It is time that both or either of these guys make a jump. We waited patiently for Nijman to make that jump. Isn't it time for at least one of these guys to step forward? That would answer a lot of questions for us on the O line.
Coldworld
August 13, 2023 at 02:51 pm
It’s time to see how good they are. It’s impossible to verify a jump unless one affords them the opportunity. Walker, who played the most snaps of anyone on Friday due to injuries to Tenuta and Jones was one of the top 5 rated players. Both Tenuta and Jones rated well too. Great, none played in the first quarter. Well now is the time to see how they do.
This is starting to look like last year where we won’t blood youngsters not automatically anointed no matter the level of play. We all know examples of players that kept being trotted out while other seemingly needed a miracle to get in the field despite looking better. LaFleur may indeed not have what it takes. This kind of thing is essential to success.
greengold
August 13, 2023 at 03:22 pm
My thinking is put the best 5 out there, whomever wins out.
Bak/Jenkins/Myers/Runyan/Nijman
Bak/Jenkins/Tom/Runyan/Nijman
Bak/Jenkins/Myers/Runyan/Tom
One of the three above should do the job just fine, leaving us with ample backups.
I believe we’re deeper at OL than many teams. Let’s consider starters for a full game, with what is looking to be a D that gives them the ball back regularly, via TOs and 3 & outs, with a heavier commitment to the run, GB’s O could force fatigue on many opposing Ds.
That’s the beauty of RUN THE ROCK!
Run blocking reps should climb significantly, if LaFleur is smart in protecting Love from the incessant ears-pinned-back stuff of yesteryear, making this OL a better, more rounded group.
For the last decade, I think we’ve been more one dimensional & predictable. OL LOVE teeing off in run blocking, further wearing out the opposition.
Practice makes perfect. Repetition. If it keeps working and opposing teams can’t stop it, do it again. More balanced attacks keep Ds guessing, opening up everything.
lou
August 13, 2023 at 09:16 am
Had Bahkt not had the ACL the starters would be set by the end of next week. Because of his limited practice schedule (which has allowed him to play at a Pro Bowl level again) Nijman has to spend more time at LT and limits his ability to compete for the RT spot. If no prior ACL it is Bahkt, Jenkins, Tom, Runyan, Nijman. The good news is you have 2 backups (Myers - Newman) who have started which is rare depth. Starting Myers at guard over Runyan who has been solid since he arrived makes little sense at this time but will be considered because of where he was picked in the draft something we see often. Next season nobody knows, Bahkt could be moved for salary cap reasons, Runyan and Nijman will become free agents and if one or both are extended during the season we will know more about the teams offensive line directions.
Leatherhead
August 13, 2023 at 09:35 am
He is our starting RT and our backup C. Nijman is the backup at both tackle spots. I think our first six are good but I’m worried about the next three.
dobber
August 13, 2023 at 09:48 am
Whichever position he plays, Tom is likely to be the top backup everywhere but LT (and maybe even there) on game day. He's a really valuable guy. Add to that Jenkins' ability to play just about anywhere on the line, and there's significant hope that they can get through a game day injury and still have good OL play.
Leatherhead
August 13, 2023 at 04:54 pm
I think you want to minimize shuffling around, and maximize practicing together as a unit. Bakhtiari/Nijman take care of the most important spot, Myers at Center with Tom as his backup, Tom at RT with Nijman, as a swing tackle, backing up both. Then at guard, you've got a guy who think can be a Pro Bowler and another guy who's started quite a few games for us.
So if we have to make an adjustment because of a gameday injury, we can withstand the first injury and still keep our main dogs on the field. It'd be great if Rhyan or Walker or Newman or Jones made me think they could be a starter, but they don't right now. Still 4 weeks to go.
MooPack
August 13, 2023 at 10:47 am
I believe Center is more important than RT. Calls out the blocking assignments. Tom > Myers. Admit the gaffe of the Myers pick, put Tom there, and watch him make the Pro-bowl.
I think they keep 9. This would be my lineup if a couple players make some improvements.
LT - Bakh / Nijim
LG - Jenkins / Rhyan
C - Tom / Myers
RG - Runyan / Rhyan
RT - Walker / Jones
Bakh's season long ability to stay in the lineup concerns me. If he does, great, but I think they'd be better served putting Nijim at backup LT, his best position, to make sure it's solidified no matter what happens.
Jenkins and to a lesser extent Runyan are no brainers at Guard. Rhyan looks to be improving and would back up both. I'd trust him over Newman who continues to be a liability. He should be let go. My bet is he is out of the NFL in a year.
RT continues to be a weak point, but I would be fine with either Walker or Jones manning this position. Maybe start Nijim here to start the season, but by season's end one of these two should stick.
I'm looking at this from a "the Packers are not going to make the Super Bowl standpoint". Playoffs? quite possibly. Superbowl? Unlikely. The Packers should be developing these linemen at their best positions for the long term. Nijim's best position is at the all-important LT position where Bakh could need some relief during the season at the very least and is most likely gone by next year. Tom's best position is Center where his intelligence will shine. Develop the two behemoths Walker/Jones at RT quickly by getting them starting reps. Stash a couple on the PS. Look to the waiver wire.
I don't know what happened, but somewhere along the way of the last few years I've lost confidence in the Packers ability to draft pick and play the correct OL alignment. My hope is they use this year to correct that.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 13, 2023 at 11:06 am
Moo, you have lots of interesting ideas here. If Mt Caleb's ankle injury is no big deal I like it, and don't like the fact they haven't been using either him or Walker at RT that I've seen. I do place value on having Nijman available to substitute for Bakh, and think it's wise to plan on him NOT taking every snap of the season. If Nijman proves he could and there's no big dropoff, getting maxt trade value for Bakh before the trade deadline suddenly looks smart, even though I hate to see him go. Especially when everybody's concerned about our O line depth.
The big factors seem to be more than just Myers at C, but also the new hire to manage the salary cap. I don't like mortgaging the future and especially now. I also doubt we can afford Bakh, #28 and 33 next year, all 3. Wilson and Goodson both look good at RB but can't replace our current double headed monster IMHO. The possibility exists of Bakh taking a paycut and allowing him not to play on artificial turf, which might make keeping him our best option. Add to all this complexity Nijman is embracing being able to play both T positions.
I'm leery of building the need to shuffle our O line into the game plan, but it might be unavoidable? Either way I think Jenkins should stay put at LG.
dobber
August 13, 2023 at 12:29 pm
" He should be let go. My bet is he is out of the NFL in a year."
Hard to say. Here's a name for you: Marshall Newhouse. Much maligned in GB, played for 7 seasons and started 52 games around the NFL after the Packers let him go. There's a dearth of playable OL in the league, and playable changes based on just how bad a team's depth chart happens to look at any given time.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 13, 2023 at 02:06 pm
Dobber, I'm thinking a lot of our O line depth would be starters on other teams.
KKB
August 13, 2023 at 11:50 am
I think the problem is simple. But the answer is not.
Yosh best position is LT. Tom's is C. Both are good at RT - but neither is ideal.
So the key is really Bach! If Bach stays, and is healthy - Tom can play center, and Yosh can focus on RT.
But if you can't count on that (either injury, contract or trade), then Yosh must be ready to take LT (this year or next), and that leaves Tom at RT, and Myers at C. I REALLY HATE that Gute tried to outthink everyone and passed on Creed Humphrey.
Wow what an OL we would have with 3 pro-bowlers: Bach, Jenkins, and CH.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 13, 2023 at 02:07 pm
I also hate that Mt Caleb isn't a C. Maybe he just can't do it but I've seen no sign of attempting to develop him for it. Although he's in line at LT.
LambeauPlain
August 13, 2023 at 04:38 pm
I liked Humphrey too (great wrestler as well!) and was disappointed when Gutey didn't take him. Myers wasn't a reach, by any means. Team Captain, B1G accolades, highly rated. But he's stalled and declined in the NFL...Creed is showing he can dominate.
LambeauPlain
August 13, 2023 at 04:33 pm
Bakht, Jenks, Tom, JRJ, Yosh does it for me, if MLF is to be believed that he will start the "best 5." (Will he?)
And I view Tom as the 3rd best of the 5, Yosh right behind him.
Maybe Myers can play better at G and beat out Runyan. Runyan is strong and solid. But like Myers, isn't great run blocking...not real quick. Playing him at C for the first time tells me the competition with Myers for the 5th starter is on.
If JRJ can play C, Hanson will probably join Newman in the gone group.
I expect Gutey will be having his team pouring over IOL players who won't make the 53's.
dobber
August 13, 2023 at 04:55 pm
If JRJ can play center, that gives them 4 guys among their game day actives (Jenkins, Myers, Runyan, Tom) who are capable of playing the position without having to dip deeper into the depth chart.
Coldworld
August 13, 2023 at 05:57 pm
Two of them play G. The next man up is Newman. Maybe by September Rhyan or Empey, neither of whom are proven. If you move Tom in season, then do you move Nijman again with little practice or try one of Jones/Walker with no time with the firsts. Not a coherent strategy or reassuring. Yes we’d have an adequate or even good C but beside him ….
dobber
August 13, 2023 at 06:23 pm
I'm just talking in-game. That's where they're most likely to run into an issue. Otherwise they've got a full week to address the line or any shifting if they have a long-term issue.
Coldworld
August 13, 2023 at 06:37 pm
Even in game that is scary though. I sincerely hope Rhyan takes a leap. Right now I’m feeling that the waiver wire is needed.
Tundraboy
August 13, 2023 at 09:05 pm
You're making an awful lot of sense today, CW!
KKB
August 13, 2023 at 07:08 pm
Please God - let Newman go.
KKB
August 15, 2023 at 10:31 am
Seems like the only way to get Tom and Yosh both on the field. I kinda like JRJ though.
jhtobias
August 13, 2023 at 07:50 pm
I'm not really sure why people are crying and complaining about the lack of depth on the o-line . 90 percent of NFL teams don't even have quality starters for their top 5 positions .
Most back ups in the NFL are just that back ups , in fact I would argue that Green Bay develops o-line talent better than most any team in this league .
Tundraboy
August 13, 2023 at 09:09 pm
True but we aim to be in the 10 %
greengold
August 15, 2023 at 04:41 pm
Anyone remember LT Greg Little from Mississippi? The Texans just released him today with an injury settlement (back).
Greg Little was selection #37 in the 2019 NFL draft.
6-5 310, 35.25" arms, hand 10.25", 5.33, 4.74 shuttle. 9'5" broad, 10 yd split 1.83
He may be an option as a plus depth signing for the Packers. Then again, there might be something wrong, as he’s trying to catch on with his 4th team.
greengold
August 15, 2023 at 06:28 pm
Another OT/OG who might be worth a look for a year or so is former 1st round pick Justin Pugh. Was released with an injury settlement by ARI. Pugh is a vast improvement over Newman, and might come in at an affordable price. Coming off an ACL. He’s recently been cleared to return to play by his doctors. According to Pugh, 6 NFL teams have reached out to him.
He and Bakhtiari are from the same 2013 draft.
Pugh said he wants to catch on with a contender.