Who To Pay, Who To Send Away
A wish list for the off season.
By KenLass
Who To Pay: Davante Adams
Without him Green Bay’s receiver position is the worst in the NFL. There is a school of thought out there that Adams will not want to return to the Packers if Aaron Rodgers leaves. I’m not buying that. Adams strikes me as being all business. He’s going where the money leads. I keep remembering what he said last summer, when asked if he would hold out of training camp until he got a contract extension. He replied there was no way he was giving up the money he will earn by reporting for training camp. This man wants to get paid. And he doesn’t care who signs the checks.
Who To Send Away: Aaron Rodgers
We’re all sick and tired of the debate. Bottom line: The money it will take to keep him will keep this franchise in salary cap hell for years to come. Let’s move on to the future.
Who To Pay: Allen Lazard
What’s not to like? He blocks, he catches the ball on third down, he even gets behind the secondary deep once in a while. Good locker room guy. Restricted free agent. Should be reasonably inexpensive.
Who To Send Away: Marquez Valdes-Scantling
Been fun watching him grow and gradually improve over the past four years. But I keep reading it will take $6 to $8 million per year to bring him back. Too much to pay for a guy who can be replaced with a day two draft pick.
Who To Pay: Yosh Nijman
Young, massive, talented, hungry, humble. Got his chance in 2021 and made the most of it. He’s ready. Might be able to be signed for below average for a starting tackle.
Who To Send Away: Billy Turner
Versatile lineman who saved our butts through several injuries over the past three seasons. Good locker room guy. But he’s 30 years old with a cap hit of over $9 million. Losing guys like this is what salary cap hell looks like.
Who To Pay: Robert Tonyan
He’s better than Deguara. He’s the only true pass catching tight end on the team. His knee injury will mean he will only be available for about half a season in 2022, so other teams will be hesitant to sign him. That will hold down his money demands. Not a good year for tight ends in the draft.
Who To Send Away: Marcedes Lewis
Lovable, aging veteran and team leader. His blocking slipped a notch last season but his pass catching stepped up. He’s a luxury the cap-strapped Packers can no longer afford. Deguara and Dafney have to replace his productivity.
Who To Pay: De’Vondre Campbell
Surely the front office recognizes the difference he made. They’ve set a value on him. Let’s hope the Packers have raised their priority level for the inside linebacker position. It will be interesting to see where the market sets his price tag. Will other teams regard him as a one-year wonder?
Who To Send Away: Za’darius Smith
Love his production. Love his fire and personality. Don’t love his bad back and $27 Million cap hit. Rashan Gary has been groomed to take his place. Z’s gotta go. We need the space.
Who To Pay: Rasul Douglas
Really hard to estimate his market value. He made a name for himself around the league with all those big plays. But he’s really just a bit better than so-so if you look at his entire body of work. He lacks speed but makes up for it by anticipating so well and playing the ball. Green Bay can’t afford to overpay for him. He may turn out to be too expensive.
Who to Send Away: Kevin King
He actually had a better year than most fans think in 2021. But, In the minds of many, he never recovered from the stigma of giving up that long touchdown pass to Tampa Bay at the end of the half in the 2020 NFC title game. Truth is, the Packers could do worse at corner. But King is, and always has been, damaged goods. He came out of college with a bad shoulder and it’s never been right. He misses too much time and too many tackles. Some other team will overpay him this off season.
Who To Pay: Darnell Savage
Pick up the fourth year veteran’s year five option. His play did decline in the latter half of last year, but I suspect he was not totally healthy. He has this maddening ability to get himself in position to make a big play, only to drop the ball. I still like his long term potential, especially with Amos behind him to keep him in the right place.
Who To Send Away: Chandon Sullivan
He’s made a few nice plays, but given up far more. On the whole, he’s not good enough. If Green Bay can keep Rasul Douglas and put Stokes on the other side with Jaire Alexander in the slot, Sullivan becomes expendable.
Who To Pay: Corey Bojorquez
He was an improvement over JK Scott. Bojo ranked 12th in average punt yardage last season. Scott was 18th the year before. Bojo was 19th in net yardage, Scott was 28th the year before. It’s difficult to find a capable, consistent punter for a cold weather team like Green Bay. I doubt there’s a better option out there.
Who To Send Away: Mason Crosby
Dust off a spot for him in the Packers Hall of Fame. He’s probably the best kicker in team history. His recent problems are certainly not all his fault. Snapping and holding have been issues. But that automatic consistency Crosby was famous for is no longer there. And his $4.75 million cap hit is too high.
Cap figures from overthecap.com.
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Ken Lass is a former Green Bay television sports anchor and 43 year media veteran, a lifelong Packers fan, and a shareholder.
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Comments (104)
Rossonero
February 21, 2022 at 06:53 am
I agree with all the recommendations, but unfortunately it's clear the Packers want Rodgers back.
He's puzzle piece #1. As soon as that falls into place, then Adams will fall in next. And so on, and the puzzle will come together.
Waiting on you, Mr. Rodgers, to make up your mind...hopefully this is the week we find out.
Barnacle
February 21, 2022 at 08:19 am
If Rodgers decides to trade himself and he wants to win, would it be best for him to screw up the process so his next team will not have to give up many assets to get him?
I can not imagine our self centered diva helping the packers get more in a trade and hurting his next team.
dobber
February 21, 2022 at 08:58 am
I think, if 12 decides he's done in GB, he'll work out his new deal with the acquiring team and be pretty quiet, otherwise. In the end, the Packers can call BS if they feel they aren't getting the value they want or if they feel 12 is poisoning the well--not to mention, he doesn't want to look like he's entering his new digs leaving scorched earth behind. It's in his best interest to be as quiet as he normally is in February and March.
Swisch
February 21, 2022 at 12:51 pm
I think it's time for Mr. Rodgers to move to a new neighborhood.
I'm hoping that two or more teams bidding for him in a trade will provide a solid return.
I'd be glad for a first-round pick and a starting defensive lineman or tight end, but would be even more glad if we got more.
The key for the Packers is losing the huge salary and the huge ego as a huge relief in both categories.
Lphill
February 21, 2022 at 01:54 pm
Everything but. QB right?
NickPerry
February 21, 2022 at 07:21 am
Before I comment I think you forgot one who's salary had GOT to be lowered if kept...Cobb... With that said...
I agree with EVERY one of your suggestions Ken, but if Rodgers is back, then I wonder about a few of them. Guys like Crosby and Lewis come to my mind first. While I agree with you about cutting them, Crosby is one of Rodgers best friends. Could it be possible the Packers hang onto Crosby, especially with the new ST Coaches they just hired and maybe add a VOID year of two to his contract? The same could be said for Lewis whom Rodgers clearly adores. I agree, it's probably best to cut them, but is it that easy, especially with Mason Crosby?
I also LOVE the KEEP Yosh Nijman! FINALLY, someone suggesting to keep Yosh and extend him to be your RT. Nijman was the Virginia Tech RT his senior season, and IMO with those feet Nijman would be the best RT on the Packers roster RIGHT NOW. Cutting Turner would hurt the depth, but the Packers HAVE to make cuts. Turner should be at the top of the list.
Excellent Job Ken... Oh, BTW... Couldn't agree more on your Lazard and MVS thoughts too!
dobber
February 21, 2022 at 08:55 am
We need to remember that Nijman is still an RFA, which means with a tender he comes back far cheaper on the 2022 cap than if they were to sign him long-term now. Tender him--it would have to be at least at the second round level--and see what happens...it could be a credible LT might draw offers even at that level of return compensation, though.
Whatever the case, it gives the Packers well into 2022 then to figure out how he fits into their long-term plans. It's not as if we've never seen promising young guys regress before...
Thegreatreynoldo
February 21, 2022 at 10:19 am
Nijman is an ERFA. RFA in 2023. No issue here. Yes, I know some sites have listed him as an RFA this year. They are wrong. Per Andy Herman, Ken Ingalls and yours truly, Nijman is an ERFA.
dobber
February 21, 2022 at 02:59 pm
All the better.
And I stand corrected. <<tips hat>>
PhantomII
February 21, 2022 at 11:09 am
He can start LT on any team right now....better be 1st RD.
LambeauPlain
February 21, 2022 at 09:02 am
Nijman is a definite keeper. He played very well at LT and got better as his season snaps increased.
Has MLF ever explained why Yosh did not start at LT in the Divisional PO? I simply could not believe he flipped Turner to LT (he didn't play well there) and played the lumbering, slow footed Kelly at RT. Kelly was awful most of the game. He was a major reason for the many 2nd half 3 & outs. He gave up a lot of pressure on Rodgers. It was clear as the game went on, MLF needed to sit Kelly and play with Yosh at LT and put Turner back at RT. Kelly was a one reason the O floundered.
On game days, I wish MLF would coach the entire team and turn play calling over to Stenavich or Clements. Matt does not adjust well on the fly.
I felt Nijman was probably the best OL remaining for that game...and Matt had him sit and kept him on the pine as Kelly struggled?
dobber
February 21, 2022 at 09:04 am
I think they decided to just go with their most experienced line...they put Turner in and shifted Patrick to RG. They overthunk it.
Coldworld
February 21, 2022 at 10:53 am
Which is a nice way to say that LaFleur made another glaring tactical mistake in a key game. Head coaches who make those lose.
PhantomII
February 21, 2022 at 11:13 am
ML makes some really poor decisions like this and not putting Taylor in when Dillon was hurt. Should have put jones in as a receiver and Taylor as RB. No halfback pass plays which totally freak out the secondary every time deciding to run at a big back for a tackle before he picks up speed or worry they are uncovering a WR doing that.
Coldworld
February 21, 2022 at 11:19 am
I’ve come to the point where I have very little faith in LaFleur. I actually think he knows he’s in over his head after last year and that this explains him falling over himself to want Rodgers back rather than show us what his system and acumen can achieve without Rodgers in front to obscure things.
Swisch
February 21, 2022 at 01:02 pm
While I have to give credit to LaFleur for his phenomenal record in the regular season, plus two big playoff wins, this is a year he has to step up as a head coach -- and without Aaron Rodgers.
After three seasons, it seems he has to show that he can make better adjustments during games.
I'm willing to give him a break for his initial seasons of gaining experience as a head coach in the NFL, but starting now it's time to show he's learned his lessons.
P.S. I'll lose a lot of confidence in the management of the Packers if they bring Rodgers back in terms of their competence and even their self-dignity.
BruceC1960
February 21, 2022 at 11:41 am
If Rodgers, Cobb, Crosby, Turner , Big Dog and Adams are all back , it is easy to see who is running this franchise.
I wonder if Kumerow is available?
stockholder
February 21, 2022 at 07:25 am
The Adams signing could wreck this team for years. Gutey blew his "All in" when he refused to draft better. Making the same mistake "twice"; will keep this team in cap hell until Adams is gone. Rodgers is the Face of the Franchise. Either he is the GM or Gutey. Pay him but don't kiss his ass. Turner is the RT. Cutting him and re-signing a new RT just is asinine. I'm not paying Tonyan unless he's a bargain. ( He's NO Jared COOK.) MVS, Lazard, and Crosby are Keepers, if Rodgers doesn't retire. Douglas, King, and Savage (Trade) are replaceable. Get another second rd pick and your looking at a DB in the first rd. Campbell is the must sign. -Much rather have him then Lowrey.
NickPerry
February 21, 2022 at 07:46 am
Hey SH...
Why keep Turner when you NEED the money and Nijman, IMO, could be better than Turner was by the middle of the 2022 season, if it even took that long. He's a exclusive rights free agent so the Packers only have to offer him the league minimum and he CAN'T negotiate with other teams. Not to mention, with the way he filled in at LT last year, he's EARNED that right for at least an opportunity to be the RT.
He's also only 26 years old. IMO it's doubtful David Bakhtiari plays out the entire contract he signed in 2020. Nijman can be your future LT, AND he negates the Packers need to draft an OT early in the draft to replace Turner.
BTW...The Adams deal scares the hell out of me too. BUT, it all depends on what Rodgers comes back for if he comes back. $25 million a year for Rodgers anybody? WAY to wishful thinking?? LOL
stockholder
February 21, 2022 at 08:01 am
Nijman would have started in the play-offs. You have to honor Turners contract. Bahk still is a concern. But remember what happened when Bulaga left? Gutey still ended up spending 6 mil plus for his replacement. Then he had to let him go. And with our All-pro guard going down. Turner will be needed. Nijman should be signed! The OL has the most injuries in the NFL now. Insurance!
dobber
February 21, 2022 at 09:07 am
They're young and deep on the OL. I think they keep Turrner if 12 comes back, and they rework his deal. If 12 isn't coming back, then you dangle him in trade to see what you can get. A quality RT with a deal that only costs the acquiring team about $5.5M against the cap (and no future obligation) might be attractive.
" IMO it's doubtful David Bakhtiari plays out the entire contract he signed in 2020"
That was only a 2-3 year deal in practical terms, anyway.
stockholder
February 21, 2022 at 11:48 am
Thats possible.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 21, 2022 at 11:45 am
Yup!
LLCHESTY
February 21, 2022 at 10:26 am
Remember when you said it wasn't a deep draft for TE's? Excuse me for trusting Daniel Jeremiah more than you.
https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/1495660878666080256?t=YCO3Aiq7T...
croatpackfan
February 21, 2022 at 07:28 am
I might disagree with you, Ken, on some names or what to do with them, but generally I agree with your assessment.
Only problem we have here is that it is not Packers (due to FO), but Aaron Rodgers is the one who will dictate what will Packers do with all those listed and more other players... That is sad situation for the franchise and if that happen I suggest that Packers change their name to Aaron Rodgers' Green Bay, as it will be clear sign that Packers are not any more publicly owned franchise.
dobber
February 21, 2022 at 09:10 am
"but Aaron Rodgers is the one who will dictate what will Packers do with all those listed and more other players."
They must have a whole bunch of flow charts set up in the basement of 1265 based on prioritized players and how one move changes the next. I agree: the big domino needs to fall before much else happens, but I think they've talked enough to know how that's going to go.
Bearmeat
February 21, 2022 at 07:38 am
Agreed with every single one of these Ken
Coldworld
February 21, 2022 at 08:39 am
Send away Mark Murphy, Russ Ball, Matt LaFleur and Brian Gutekunst if they bring back Rodgers and undermine the future of the team despite all the evidence that this is a failed strategy.
The team may linger on a little longer, but retaining Rodgers shows our management is already back in the 1970s. Out of touch with reality, cocooned in a bubble of self reinforcing delusion.
Alberta_Packer
February 21, 2022 at 11:36 am
I'd first terminate Murphy, "El Presidente," as he appears to be running the team like a banana republic. Gutekunst, I would grant a stay of execution because I think that he has been somewhat tethered to Murphy's hitching post. I'd also keep MLF for another year (if Rodgers doesn't return) just to see how good a coach he actually is. As for Ball - I think that his role is over-rated as just a numbers guy. So not to difficult to replace, if necessary. In fact, TGR could probably do his job.
Coldworld
February 22, 2022 at 08:44 am
The claim that Ball is a guru seems mostly to emanate from Murphy. In fact, the Packers were under the cap under TT typically due to TTs approach. The Packers are not known for innovative cap management in particular and have generally just used methods employed by other teams.
jannesbjornson
February 22, 2022 at 03:06 pm
A kid with a degree in Bookkeeping and the bloggers from this Site could do a better job.
BirdDogUni
February 21, 2022 at 08:43 am
I agree with all but two.
Tag-n-trade Davante Adams. I know it's unlikely, because the Packers rarely do it, but I think this might be the perfect time to do it if possible. Use the trade compensation to draft another WR. (Younger, stronger, faster...)
Re-sign MVS. We need speed and MVS will be the cheapest speed we can get. (If he's healthy.) If he's not healthy, nevermind...
Going to be very interesting to watch all this unfold.
dobber
February 21, 2022 at 08:51 am
A tag and trade on Adams really only works if #12 isn't returning. I think it would create tremendous issues with the associate GM if they treated 17 that way, and also sent him away when they could've kept QB1's favorite target around.
HawkPacker
February 21, 2022 at 07:26 pm
Could and probably should happen. We are all waiting on Rodgers...........then it will all start.
Coldworld
February 21, 2022 at 10:17 am
I agree on keeping MVS. With the cap precluding signing a proven player, the recent prevalent fantasy is that we can sign a bunch of receivers and expect them to blossom in years one and two. The odds against that are extortionate, more so given where we pick. We saw what the absence of speed looked like in the championship game.
Bringing back MVS is a no brainer if we keep Rodgers, just do it. Without it our O plays into Rodgers weaknesses by alowing defenses to play as the Bucs and 49ers did with impunity.
Of course it’s exactly the kind of move a team that thinks Rodgers is still our savior with less around him probably makes.
dobber
February 21, 2022 at 10:20 am
The alternative on MVS is to try to find a cheaper deep threat on the open market later in FA. Maybe that would work, but race-horses that linger on the market often do for a reason: an inability to stay on the field is a big one. Guys who can run, catch, and be available at a low price just don't hang around out there.
Coldworld
February 21, 2022 at 10:36 am
There are few cheap speedsters of any size on the FA market later in any year. Any that are aren’t likely better either. MVS changes defenses in a way we desperately need.
NitschkeFan
February 21, 2022 at 03:12 pm
Coldworld, I think many of us would like to keep MVS but don't know where they can find 7-8 mill in cap space for him (assuming that's what it will take). In the article the assumption was that Adams was staying and for big bucks.
If we lose Adams then there should be plenty of money for MVS and other WR's.
Alberta_Packer
February 21, 2022 at 03:40 pm
I like MVS as he has the optimal blend of size and speed that increases the fear factor for opposing defenses. Certainly injuries have arrested his usage and development. However, Rodgers waning ability to throw the long ball has limited his effectiveness more than anything else. Cobb's base salary in 2022 was $7,875,000. Certainly MVS would represent better value at this price.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 21, 2022 at 12:10 pm
Bird,
Very much my thoughts as well! Now is the time to ensure we get something for Adam's but don't believe the Packers can do that if they truly want Rodgers. Rodgers I believe will do everything possible to control and manipulate anything to do with him staying, or if he is going to be traded. He seems to have the upperhand with the FO with the sole exception if the FO truly do not want him back. The FO essentially can wrestle away control from Rodgers by making well thought out decisions with life without Rodgers moving forward that would push Rodgers to see the writing on the wall. I am hopeful this charade and diva act is resolved once and for all for the good of the GB Packers.
Whether true of not the internet rumors about the Shaleine break up centered around Rodgers allegedly being controlling and jealous (not saying this is true as internet rumors are just that). However, this visual of Rodgers MO fits entirely in what we know about him within GB. I also recall trying to read and interpret Dannica's statements after the break up. She was very vague and ambiguous leaving one to try interpreting (which allows for a lot of wrong assumptions), but as I reflect back about her statements following the Shaleine rumors combined with what is happening in GB it does leave me wondering about Rodger's both on and off field personality.
Rob3980
February 21, 2022 at 08:51 am
Agree with a lot of this except the Packers would be nothing without Rodgers , Lewis is their best blocking Te so maybe and Tonyan isn’t going to play much next year due to his acl. The Packers need to really look at bolstering the O line and De positions . They have lost in the trenches the last 3 post seasons in a row regardless of who they have had. Lowry and Lancaster are not the answer and the Guard position needs to be addressed. Maybe get cobb a new vet min. He’s worth that.
Nobody
February 21, 2022 at 09:04 am
I AGREE with everything about who to pay and who to send away. I would also pay Preston Smith.
I'm still torn about who are 1st round pick should be. On one hand I would like to franchise tag Davonte Adams and pick a WR as the #1 pick . On the other hand I would like to get a DT to help out Kenny Clark and our porous run game as our #1 pick. Ugh.
dobber
February 21, 2022 at 09:13 am
I agree with you on P. Smith: even with the even-year/odd-year thing, he was a valuable asset this year, and they can redo his deal to the point that the cap savings this year almost matches a cut or trade. Good locker room guy, plays hard, almost always available.
...and you can't push all your needs into the draft.
jannesbjornson
February 21, 2022 at 08:57 pm
Right now they have him and Gary. They need two Pro bowl types to make the D work. If they let him ride off, they may have to move Up in the first to find a repalcement. I like P. Smith on this roster. Make the deal.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 21, 2022 at 12:18 pm
Nobody,
Why not do all three? We can tag Adam's (but I would prefer to trade him) and still draft a DL and a WR in Rd 1. We could also have two to possibly three 2nd Rd picks (Denver has two 2nd Rd picks this year) to continue to bolster those positions and others.
To do that the Packers would need to move on from Aaron Rodgers. An Adam's trade even up for a Jerry Jeudy, or a Noah Fant would be mind blowing perfect. That would still allow the Packers to select a talented WR in either Rd 1, or Rd 2.
Roadrunner23
February 21, 2022 at 09:16 am
Well done Ken however,
*we all know with the hiring of Rodgers old (retired) QB Coach that Assistant GM Rodgers had some input and it’s a clear indication he’s coming back, meaning…..
*the Packers are all in and are going to resign Adams, meaning….
*MVS & Lazard are probably both gone, Lewis comes back, meaning..
*Cobb comes back on a lowball contract which doesn’t leave room for….
*Tonyan is probably gone too and…
*With the hiring of a veteran Special Teams coach meaning….
*Assistant GM Rodgers wants to ride off in the Super Bowl sunset with his long time buddy Mason Crosby whom Bissaccia will get straitened out, which doesn’t leave room to pay…
*Bojo, expect a major punting competition in camp this year.
*also expect King to stick around and Campbell to be resigned, which means….
*Douglass is the odd man out unfortunately
*Rodgers will resign for 3 years (which will really be a 2 year deal in reality)
He will ride off into the Super Bowl sunset with Murphy, Lewis, Crosby and Bakhtiari.
When Rodgers signs his extension the dominoes will fall quickly, the plan is already in place.
LLCHESTY
February 21, 2022 at 11:24 am
They missed out on resigning King before his void years tolled so they're on the hook for $3 million for him this year. Highly unlikely he will be back.
Coldworld
February 21, 2022 at 12:04 pm
King and Campbell, so ~ 4 million cemented as dead cap thus far.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
February 21, 2022 at 12:21 pm
RoadRunner while you could very well be right (except for riding off into the SB sunset as I think that window closed) I sure hope you are incorrect.
tincada
February 21, 2022 at 09:20 am
This is great. The comment section is just like the GB org. Totally dysfunctional! Dump the jerk, trade DA and move on to what is required. A re-build. And while you're at it dump the three headless horsemen, Murf, Gute and Flower.
Goliath
February 21, 2022 at 09:41 am
I am hoping that Packers are gushing over Rodgers in an attempt to increase his trade value. He needs to go. No one is bigger than the team.
On Adams . . . is he as good without Rodgers?
dobber
February 21, 2022 at 10:15 am
Adams was pretty much the only guy catching the ball in 2017 with god-awful Brett Hundley chucking it, which argues he might still be effective. That was four years ago, though.
Coldworld
February 21, 2022 at 10:39 am
Adams will catch, he’s good, but will he be good enough in that situation to justify his cap percentage? That’s a legitimate question. Every signing has an opportunity cost
Grimm
February 21, 2022 at 09:43 am
Some will have to clear this up. I thought I read that cutting King would count more against the cap than keeping him. As a third or forth corner he is not that bad. If that is correct, then trading King would be the only option and maybe you could find someone to give up a 7th round for him, but that is not very likely either. My guess is we keep King for 1 more year.
dobber
February 21, 2022 at 10:12 am
Not so much a cut with KIng as that NOT re-upping him allows his contract to void and accelerate his void years onto the 2022 cap. Yes, cheaper to keep him than to not, but it appears the Packers are not making that move.
What does that signal for a team that will likely need to scrape every dollar together for 2022?
wildbill
February 21, 2022 at 10:40 am
Good point and I also thought they would keep King as it’s cheaper, he knows our system, and you can never have enough NFL level cbs. Not a fan of King but he does bring value, especially if it saves us money
jannesbjornson
February 21, 2022 at 09:02 pm
They know King is a Fail. TJ Watt as Defensive player of the year just rubs it in. Best he moves on.
Thegreatreynoldo
February 22, 2022 at 01:37 am
That is (well was) conditionally true about King. It depends on how much he is worth. The break even point was a one year, $7M deal. $7M - $1.12M base leaves $5.88M with 4 void years and a NEW proration of $1.176M. His 2022 cap number would be the minimum ($1.12M) plus NEW proration ($1.176M) and his OLD proration ($750K) for a 2022 cap number of $3.046M. Now that the time limit has passed, a dead money charge of $3M has hit the cap.
I had figured he was worth $2.25M to $4M. And of course maybe he thinks he can get a multi-year deal with some guaranteed money.
Signing him to that type of deal means GB has a $750K proration for '23, '24 and '25 and then a new proration of an unknown amount for 2022 through 2026. If he last one year in GB, he'd have a $2.25M dead money hit for the OLD proration and an unknown amount for the NEW proration.
Leatherhead
February 21, 2022 at 09:44 am
No to Adams. Look at last year and tell me how many WRs older than Adams were among the league leaders in yards, receptions, etc. Damn few. The most productive receivers in the league are guys on their rookie contracts, or second deals. Paying a bunch of money to a guy who'll be 30+ during the majority of the contract is bad business. Don't do it.
No to Tonyan. He'll be 28 in a few weeks. He's coming off a serious injury and will certainly miss the start of the season. I'd pass and look for other opportunities to strengthen the TE unit. And YES to Lewis, because he can still get his guy blocked, never gets hurt, and is a veteran leader.
No to MVS. I'd rather keep him, but the nature of free agency is that the people who are willing to pay the most have the advantage, and somebody will almost certainly pay more for him than we should.
No to Rodgers. Of course.
No to Kevin King. He has just missed too much time, playiing in 51 out of 81 possible games. That's only about 63% availability. If he were dominant when healthy, it'd be different, but even when healthy we have three better corners on the roster in Douglas, Stokes, and Alexander.
No to Crosby. If we're dumping younger, every down players to get under the cap, we should look at replacing Crosby with somebody younger and cheaper.
Yes to Turner. It is totally obvious that good blocking helps the run game and protects the QB, but every year we have people clamoring for us to get rid of good, dependable, competent veteran blockers that we don't want to pay like NFL starters. Turner is not only our starting RT, but he can play 4 positions on the offensive line. He's been available for 60 out of the last 65 games. IF we cut him, it creates $5 million in dead cap while only saving the team about $4 million. Getting rid of him is stupid, IMO.
Yes to Sullivan. This guy stays available and is certainly good enough to be our #4 or #5 CB. He won't be expensive.
Yes to Campbell and Douglas. Neither should break the bank.
Thegreatreynoldo
February 21, 2022 at 10:31 am
We agree on 8 out of the 10 you named! I particularly am concerned about signing Tonyan. Week 8 means at best he starts on the PUP. Then what do you pay him? More than I want to pay him.
The 9th is Sullivan. Not thrilled with him, depends on price for me. So, we don't really disagree, I am just not an unequivocal yes.
I am a yes to MVS at $8M AAV and be careful with the guaranteed money. It sounds like we aren't far apart about him, either.
LLCHESTY
February 21, 2022 at 10:42 pm
Draft is loaded with TEs. I'd offer him vet min with some incentives. If he goes elsewhere draft two TEs on day 3.
dobber
February 21, 2022 at 10:11 am
So...to summarize, bring back:
Adams, Lazard, Nijman, Tonyan, Campbell, Douglas, Savage, Bojo
With the tender, Lazard and Nijman make sense. They can be had fairly cost-effectively that way. The question just becomes the level of tender. Tonyan is a tough call. The Packers know more about the severity of his injury than anyone, so how they handle him will be telling. I just don't see Campbell being someone they'll be able to afford to bring back, especially if they bring back Adams...and, personally, I'm in agreement with stockholder on Adams. The comment above is that, without Adams, this is the worst WR room in the league--well, if 12 stays, then you're putting it on him to elevate youth. If not, then embrace the suck and start replacing. I'm not as bullish on Douglas as others. Savage and Bojo make sense.
Who to replace:
ARod, MVS, Turner, Lewis, Z, King, Sullivan, Crosby
I phrase it this way because the NFL is a game of replacement. In that vein, Sullivan and King are players who you presume to replace by bringing back Douglas and coaching up Jean-Charles or some other young CB. You're getting far enough down the depth chart that you're likely to find a rookie who can compete. There are no obvious replacements for Z, Lewis, and MVS. Those are players whose roles (or perceived role in the case of Z) you must fill--likely though the draft. 12, of course, we've beaten into the ground, but if he goes the Packers likely find a 'value' vet , draft another player to develop, and cross their fingers.
So what does that push into the draft as glaring needs just based on manipulating contracts?
Sounds like pass-catchers (WR or TE) are an issue, but unless an high-end, dual purpose TE appears in the draft, their MO has been to address these positions round 3 or later. An impact edge player--either at OLB or DE--is a must. I don't think they'll be able to swing Campbell, so they need to address ILB. This doesn't look at the fact that they've let Keke go, and Lancaster is a JAG on his best day, and unless Kylin HIll looks like he's got a chance to return to form they need to consider a quality RB (esp. given Jones' contract) if they're going to be a run-oriented offense going forward.
Coldworld
February 21, 2022 at 10:28 am
What’s the logic in bringing back Rodgers and then expecting him to develop new draft picks at WR and TE? Where we pick, the chances of a big first year contribution from any WR are extremely low, and that’s without considering the Rodgers factor. At TE, the chances are probably even lower.
Rodgers with Lazard plus AmRod and Winfree and a raft of rookies? Please tell me how that sounds like a good plan! It is the sort of result one only arrives at if one only looks at the individual and not the whole.
BirdDogUni
February 21, 2022 at 10:48 am
Even if we bring AR & DA back, we need to draft the #1 WR of the future now. We also need to draft another TE. Guys who can grow with Love or whoever when AR does end up leaving.
Coldworld
February 21, 2022 at 11:02 am
That I agree with. But that’s an apple to my orange in the context of the point that I’m making. I want to draft WRs, but I’m not deluding myself that we can rely on them to start effectively now. If we bring Rodgers back, drafting for the future makes no sense despite being what we need to prepare for the future. If Rodgers is back it’s to win now. When contradictions like that are thrown up, time to rethink one’s whole strategy.
BirdDogUni
February 21, 2022 at 11:40 am
I understand your reasoning and I agree we're in "Win Now" mode, but the future is coming whether or not the GB FO wants it to. If they bring back Rodgers and DA but don't bring back MVS, we will need speed and about the only way we can do that is to draft it. So whether or not you look at it as a Win Now move or a move for the future is irrelevant. We need speed. We need a #1 WR sooner rather than later.
I love DA. Hell, I love AR. If we're going all in, go all the way and get AR a 1st Round WR he can't ignore. I would trade for another WR, but we can't afford most of those contracts, so we're back to drafting one.
Coldworld
February 21, 2022 at 12:00 pm
I understand your thinking, I just think we need MVS for now while it develops
BirdDogUni
February 21, 2022 at 10:14 pm
Oh, I agree. we need MVS. We still need to draft a #1 WR and a TE. ; ) Along with DL, ILBer, OT, S, P, K, LS... ; ) Lol
Thegreatreynoldo
February 22, 2022 at 01:51 am
It will sort out. GB will be on the clock for pick 29 (presumably) and there will be one or two players they pick between based on talent rather than need.
It could be that easily the best player on the board will be an Edge guy, or a WR, or some other position altogether. GB will pick the best prospect at a position of need, or the best player even if he doesn't fulfill a need if the difference in talent is great enough.
croatpackfan
February 21, 2022 at 01:44 pm
Well, drafting the WR in the first round for AR is sign they want to kick him in the a** and say ferwell future Packers Hall of Famer and very likely first ballot NFL HOFer. This is the the way to piss him off completely!
dobber
February 21, 2022 at 03:21 pm
I don't think there IS a logic in it, but then I don't see the logic in bringing back 12 (or 17) to begin with.
I'm thinking mostly of stocking the closet. If they're going to be looking mid rounds, you have to draft a couple to find a good one. A good dual-purpose TE pays dividends i n the run game, too, esp. if Lewis is gone.
jannesbjornson
February 21, 2022 at 09:08 pm
Maybe Kolar from Iowa State?
dobber
February 22, 2022 at 08:24 am
He's someone I like. I don't think he's going to run super well, so he might be available at several points in the draft.
Thegreatreynoldo
February 21, 2022 at 10:36 am
Not a fan of Bojo. If you can't hold and are inconsistent as a punter, I'd only be interested at the $2M and under area. Yeah, lots of rookie punter stink In fact, a lot of good punter now stunk early.
BirdDogUni
February 21, 2022 at 11:42 am
I can't remember his name, but I saw some kid with like a 75 yard punt. Let's get that kid! ; )
jannesbjornson
February 21, 2022 at 09:25 pm
The guy needs to be from the North Country and know how to control the ball in the cold.
Coldworld
February 21, 2022 at 01:50 pm
Bojo’s holding only really became an issue after the Wirtel insertion if I recall correctly. If so, maybe that’s as much a factor. I’m a little puzzled, he’s punted in the cold before and yet certainly tailed off last season. Could it be issued with protection or even the LS in part? I’d bring him back at a similar cost. But look for some competition while letting RB run his eyes over the kicking units.
Coldworld
February 21, 2022 at 01:49 pm
Bojo’d holding only really became an issue after the Wirtel insertion, if I recall correctly? If so, maybe that’s as much a factor. I’m a little puzzled, he’s punted in the cold before and yet certainly tailed off last season. Could it be issued with protection or even the LS in part? I’d bring him back at a similar cost. But look for some competition while letting RB run his eyes over the kicking units.
Turophile
February 21, 2022 at 10:48 am
Gutekunst has got so much right in recent years that the team as it was in 2021 was very strong, among the very strongest in the NFL.
Unfortunately, I think keeping Rodgers (and possibly Adams) will be a huge mistake that will hurt the Packers team over quite a few years. It would be a shame if that became Gute's legacy, the thing he was remembered for and not in a good way.
Coldworld
February 21, 2022 at 11:09 am
I increasingly believe that we are reaping the results of Murphy’s structure and so is Gute. I think this is Murphy driven, with seeming support from LaFleur. Unfortunate for Gute if so, but at some point one has to stand up if so, or take the flak anyway. I think you are right that returning Rodgers will have a disastrous impact on careers of those not close to retirement. I also think little of a leader who would leave the aftermath of such as this to his successor.
Alberta_Packer
February 21, 2022 at 01:39 pm
"The Packers Leadership Structure is Dangerous and Disjointed." An CHTV opinion piece written by David Michalski in 2019 - on a Tom Silverstein article as it related to the Packers power structure. One of the main points talked about the dangers of hiring a general manager who is not in complete control of football operations and keeping a headstrong executive who thinks he should be the general manager.
It seems that it has come to pass.
jannesbjornson
February 21, 2022 at 09:13 pm
Silage still clogging the Silos. Fans still spinning through the turnstiles while being frisked for their flasks.
The song remains the same.
BirdDogUni
February 21, 2022 at 11:21 am
He's probably come to the realization that the only way he ever wins a SB is with Rodgers in the next year or two, so he's doing everything in his power to get it done. If he lets AR leave and rolls with Love and can't get it done in the next couple years, he's probably out of a job in Green Bay.
The only way Gutey saves face regarding Love is if he trades him for more than we think he can or Love pans out in GB. Any other outcome leaves Gutey in the wind so to speak.
Let's just say for instance, the Falcons or the Commanders were to call Gutey and offer their 1st round pick for Jordan Love, (Like Wolf did for Favre...) I would venture to bet Jordan Love is better than almost any Rookie QB coming in this year, if only because he's learned how to be a pro behind an MVP QB.
If one GM were to think trading for Love could turn out like the Favre trade did in GB, then Gutey saves face, and Gutey uses that pick to shore up the defense or grabs the best WR in the draft, whoever that might be and he looks like a genius.
croatpackfan
February 21, 2022 at 01:52 pm
This scenario is only one to two years prolongation for BG. Only win he can achieve is if Jordan Love will not have successful career. If turn out that Jordan Love is NFL level QB, than he will looked like the biggest idiot on the Earth and his career in football will be over for good. Who will hire GM who crippled successful franchise by signing aging choker Diva and let the future to another team?
stockholder
February 21, 2022 at 12:52 pm
Bahk should have taught him a lesson. No matter how much you pay a guy. They can get hurt and cost you.
croatpackfan
February 21, 2022 at 01:53 pm
Same for the Diva as it is for Davante Adams and David Bahktiari...
BruceC1960
February 21, 2022 at 05:48 pm
I guess we had to wait for Pat McFee to get back from vacation so 12 can announce his intentions? Just another example of it being time for him to go.
wildbill
February 21, 2022 at 10:49 am
Rodgers has stated in the past that he wants to be a Packer for life, which would be very rare in todays NFL. I doubt he wants to go somewhere and learn a new offense when he will be in year four in ours. Whichever way it plays out my gut feeling is he wants to stay.
I’m a big Adams fan but no WR is worth $100 million. I think we have won every game he has missed in the last three years. I know the level of opponents can alter that perception but every NFL team is capable of beating you on a given day. That $100 million can sure provide a lot of talent, either by retaining people or bringing some in or both.
13TimeChamps
February 21, 2022 at 12:50 pm
If Rodgers goes to Denver, he wouldn't have to learn a new offense with Hackett as HC and Outten as OC.
HarryHodag
February 21, 2022 at 11:21 am
It might be they all go away until the cap is under control. Especially if Rodgers and/or Adams stays.
Good teams in cap hell lose good players all the time. The same is true for Green Bay. My take is the inner circle want Rodgers back regardless of cost. That cost will include players like Adams, etc. I crunched a bunch of numbers and it will be costly(in many ways) to keep both Rodgers and Adams.
I would like to keep all the players mentioned above. But the idea that the Packers can be 'all in' again next season is really difficult to see. Some losses will happen. Another Packers website pointed out the Packers could cut $90 million from the cap, meaning $40 million under. That's technically true, but the article didn't mention how far out the dead cap money would be extended, or how long the Packers will continue paying on players no longer there. That's like saying 'take all the time you want in the next two minutes".
One interesting twist is I see Blake Martinez is a FA. If Campbell leaves they might be able to sign Martinez cheap if he wants to leave the Giants.
stockholder
February 21, 2022 at 12:24 pm
I'm hearing Campbell has gold fever now. Add him to the send away.
jannesbjornson
February 21, 2022 at 09:31 pm
When you get an All Pro designation, they don't play the Mother Theresa role. He made the Defense function at a higher level, but they still gave up the 3rd and 8.
Swisch
February 21, 2022 at 12:46 pm
Major Keepers:
Campbell, Douglas, and Savage on defense.
MVS and Lazard on offense, plus Yosh.
Crosby and Bojo.
***
We can't afford Davante at his age.
I don't want Rodgers back at any price with his current attitude of inflated self-importance.
Z. is too much of an injury risk, and too expensive.
Use the money saved from these three to pay the others.
croatpackfan
February 21, 2022 at 01:56 pm
I believe Crosby hit the father time's wall. So, no. They have replacement already on the team...
Packercruising
February 21, 2022 at 08:16 pm
Just a couple comments; If the Packers want Rodgers back, they will find a way to do it, no matter what we think; Don't we have to pay Kevin King, whether he is on the roster or not?; I wouldn't be so quick to get rid of Crosby. It looked like the snapper and the holder were the main problems. Do you want him to pull a Ryan Longwell and go to the Vikes?
LLCHESTY
February 21, 2022 at 11:04 pm
Rodgers is on Pat McAfee's show tomorrow and Gutey is meeting with reporters Wednesday so I think we'll know the direction they're going in soon. I don't like it but I'm guessing it's to announce that Rodgers is once again the highest paid QB in the NFL. If he wants to make the SB he should give some concessions salary wise but probably not happening.
Coldworld
February 21, 2022 at 11:30 pm
That would be worthy of a wake.
dobber
February 22, 2022 at 08:28 am
He issued a social media post this morning that certainly has a "goodbye" kind of feel to it...whether it's goodbye in general or goodbye to those who won't be staying? Who knows? But it somewhat clashes with the Packers' general "doing everything to bring him back" statements.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2022/02/22/aaron-rodge...
Coldworld
February 22, 2022 at 08:52 am
That is true, it does have a goodbye air to it, but it’s also so opaque as to mean anything or nothing. I assume it signals a desire to build attention in part.
dobber
February 22, 2022 at 09:45 am
And it paints him in a positive light.
jannesbjornson
February 22, 2022 at 03:14 pm
Only Q understands the arcane semiology.
Big_Mel_75
February 22, 2022 at 10:41 am
I don't get paying Adams and sending away Rodgers. Adams is good but why spend $20mil on a WR with no one to throw him the football. I am so tired of listening to people complain about Rodgers and to send him on his way... I have a close friend who is a Vikings fan who would give ANYTHING to have a QB like Rodgers leading the Vikings. Remember what the washed up Farve did the first year with the Vikings? Took an average team to the brink of the Super bowl and one could argue without bounty gate he takes him to the Super bowl. Bottom line Rodgers gives us the best chance to win now and the next three years. Moving on from Rodgers is just dumb.
barutanseijin
February 22, 2022 at 12:04 pm
The Vikings have a QB who is like Rodgers: Kirk Cousins.
Sure Rodgers’ ceiling is (was?) higher but Kirk is also a proven regular season StatMaster & Big Game Failure.
Big_Mel_75
February 22, 2022 at 12:16 pm
Really? How many MVP votes did Cousins get this year? You and I must watch different football games if you think Cousins and Rodgers are in the same conversation. Also from a true Vikings fan than why would he want Rodgers if they are the same?