What Path Will the Packers Go for Backup QB?
Veteran or youngster? The options for the Packers at backup QB.
By TimBackes
While the issues surrounding the starting quarterback position have been easily the story of the offseason, a lesser-discussed issue that also has some importance for the upcoming season is how the Green Bay Packers will handle the backup slot.
For the last several years, the Packers had Jordan Love as the quarterback-in-waiting behind Aaron Rodgers. Suddenly, Love is the guy, and what he brings to the team is entirely uncertain. While there is certainly a lot of excitement for Love's potential (and there are plenty who believe he's going to step in and play well), it's important to note that, at this point, none of us has a clear idea of whether Love can truly be *the guy* for the long term for this team.
There are a couple main philosophies with the backup position: either you get a veteran in the room who can provide some guidance and step in when the starter is absent to seamlessly guide the ship, or you get a young guy in for cheap who you can coach up and hopefully flip for assets in the future.
The Packers under Ron Wolf were one of the best teams in league history at the latter approach. At various points in the 90s, the Packers had the following players on the roster who would ultimately turn into starters of varying degrees of success elsewhere: Ty Detmer, Kurt Warner, Doug Pederson, Mark Brunell, Matt Hasselbeck, Aaron Brooks. Of these players, Detmer, Brunell, Hasselbeck and Brooks all began their careers as Packer draft picks, and Warner started his professional career with the Packers as a camp body only. Pederson had a couple years in Miami but leveraged his time in Green Bay into a brief starting gig in Philadelphia.
The last time the Packers found themselves in a position where they had a former first-round draft pick entering his first year as a starter and fourth year in the league, they used two draft picks on quarterbacks: a second-round selection on Louisville's Brian Brohm and a seventh-round selection on LSU's national championship winner, Matt Flynn. Brohm was surprisingly out of the league quickly, but Flynn carved out a strong career for himself given his draft position.
The way the Packers handled the backup position that year is very much not the norm for teams starting young quarterbacks these days. For whatever reason, it is seen as something of a sacrilege to bring a young quarterback in with a day two or even early day three pick when you've already got a young guy on the roster to learn. Just four years after Rodgers took over with Brohm and Flynn right behind him, Washington was skewered by many pundits for taking Kirk Cousins in the same draft as Robert Griffin, Jr. as a sort of insurance policy.
The issue, though, is that when it comes to quarterbacks, you might have all the confidence in the world in your young guy, but you never really know. And yes, while Rodgers was the presumed starter entering 2008 and he was not in a position where he had to compete for the starting job, there were certainly plenty of people at the time who saw Brohm, who had impressive tape, as something of a potential insurance policy should Rodgers fail to make the most of his shot.
So what will the Packers do this year?
I'd be stunned if they enter the year with a backup the likes of Tim Boyle or Graham Harrell, an undrafted player who could not realistically be relied upon to win games in the starter's absence. Either they're getting someone in the draft or they're bringing in a trusted free agent veteran; at least, that would be my guess.
Each option has different merits.
The pros of bringing in a veteran:
- You know exactly what you're getting out of the player.
- They can serve as something of a mentor to the young starter.
- They can play a role as a secondary quarterback coach during practice and set of eyes on the field during games.
- For many of them, they have accepted their position in the league as a backup and are not going to have any hard feelings about their role.
- There's almost no risk of a quarterback controversy, especially when compared to a draft pick taken in the first several rounds.
The pros of bringing in a draft pick:
- You have another young player to develop and hopefully turn into assets down the road.
- They're likely to be a lot cheaper, and you get several years of that cheap play.
- The presence of a hungry young player can provide an additional challenge and motivation to your new young starter and offer some friendly competition in camp (even if the competition itself is not real for the job).
- You can mold them into whatever you want them to be (to an extent, anyway) versus veterans who are already set in their ways and abilities.
The Packers' salary cap situation being what it is, I'd find it quite likely that they spend a mid-round draft pick or lower on a quarterback in a few weeks. It would be a sensible use of a selection in those rounds, because the need is there and it makes a lot of sense to bring in another player to develop in LaFleur's offense. Would it stun me if they bypassed the quarterback position in the draft and opted for a veteran? No, but the cheap option makes a lot of sense, and the team doesn't have a shortage of picks.
We'll see what happens. If a veteran addition does occur, I'd expect it would be shortly after the draft.
PLEASE SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHEESEHEAD NATION WEEKLY NEWSLETTER HERE.
__________________________
Tim Backes is a lifelong Packer fan and a contributor to CheeseheadTV. Follow him on Twitter @timbackes for his Packer takes, random musings and Untappd beer check-ins.
__________________________
Comments (200)
NickPerry
March 30, 2023 at 06:18 am
If the Packers weren't so cash strapped I'd say a veteran in a minute and I even know WHO I'd like to see them sign. IF they could get Matt Ryan for CHEAP, like the NFL veteran minimum or a smidgen more, I say sign him...NOW.
The reason I like Ryan is he's played in the MLF scheme before and had a MVP season doing it. After watching him last season, he's clearly done as a every game starter, but in the Packers case I think he could be a asset. Ryan has a lot of experience to draw from. Again, if he could be had cheap enough I think it makes sense. I think he could be a huge help to Love as he navigates his first season as a NFL starter.
If Ryan wants more money or has some crazy idea he could still be a starter then use the draft. It might not be a horrible idea to do both. Could they find a guy the like in the 5th or 6th round maybe, and sign a Matt Ryan? Do they want to tie up 3 roster spots at that position?
TKWorldWide
March 30, 2023 at 07:50 am
Story of my life, brother (Hogan voice): “I want the Cadillac, but I can only afford the Yugo.”
RCPackerFan
March 30, 2023 at 08:29 am
I agree about Ryan. He would be a perfect backup Mentor type. But it would have to be for the vet minimum and I doubt he would be willing to do that. I guess they could do a bonus thing that if he started any games he would get so much.
"Do they want to tie up 3 roster spots at that position?"
Well Love is unrpoven. None of us know how he will perform or hold up. If they draft a guy they will keep him on the 53. And if that drafted guy shows he isn't ready, they probably are going to look to bring a veteran in to be the main backup. So I don't think it will be an issue to have 3.
Coldworld
March 30, 2023 at 09:15 am
It could be the 3rd sits on the PS anyway.
RCPackerFan
March 30, 2023 at 09:24 am
Very well could. But if they draft a guy I don't see him going on the PS. And if they don't feel he is ready, I can see them bringing in a veteran, which also wouldn't sit on the PS. If they feel good about the drafted player, then I don't see them bringing in a veteran. Maybe stay with Etling and keep him on the PS.
PatrickGB
March 30, 2023 at 09:35 am
Matt Ryan does make sense. Of all the available veteran QB’s available he would have to most to offer. And I could see the team drafting a QB in the later rounds or picking up someone from another teams PS.
croatpackfan
March 30, 2023 at 01:30 pm
Nick, Packers do not have 6th round pick. They traded that pick for player, I can not remember which one.
stockholder
March 30, 2023 at 06:43 am
So we now want to get a Veteran to replace Rodgers.
I remember; the trade for Kizer.
I remember; that we needed to draft Love.
And Then; came the call to get him more playing Time.
So why; won’t that be the call drafting any QB. TIME!
I guess you could always trade for a Brett Favre.
But thats not really the story; behind Rodgers / Gutey.
And Now that we got Rodgers on the ropes.
We get to Trust in Gute. No matter what.
The big talk was what we were going to get.
The big talk was we were All -in per Super-Bowl.
The big talk is full of lies. Smoke and mirrors.
I don’t think anybody here knows, the full extent
Of trading ACR. The greatness he brought.
It looks like a cover -up of excuses since 2010.
The only thing I realize is. This is No way to run a business.
bottlefliper
March 30, 2023 at 07:20 am
You AR covered up everything with losing when it counts since 2011? Covered up with throwing everyone under the bus, from coaches, to teammates, to the "media"? Covered up with his lies and conspiracies? Thats what you mean, a coward who is the Image of a smart man but only from some dummies. Or do you mean his cover ups with wodoo words from the flatearth? No wonder he has lost all the trust. And not about his losing but the way acted as a human being. Now he can sink the Jets and than cover it up by blaming the Media. Or Planes......
Packerpasty
March 30, 2023 at 10:28 am
most QB's unfortunately lose when it counts...how many in the NFL have reached the promised land? One per year...
barutanseijin
March 30, 2023 at 02:59 pm
Ah yes, but you and SH will also tell us that the Departed was one of the all time greats, someone more talented than any other qb. Now you tell us we shouldn’t have expected results beyond the ordinary.
jannesbjornson
March 30, 2023 at 07:31 am
Rodgers got all Three of the Circus Performers new Contracts and filled the Bleachers. In a bottom line world, working in an oligarchic structure the ROI was delivered to them, not the Fans. Brock Purdy, Bailey Zappe, Desmond Ridder(Bearcats) and Kenny Pickett have proved you don't need four years to start at QB with the new rules, protecting QBs and the New Offenses. The Way Back Machine is now pining for the Days of Wolf?
Untylu1968
March 30, 2023 at 10:49 am
Pretty sure the bleachers were full, long before Rodgers came along, and will be full long after he's gone.
jannesbjornson
March 30, 2023 at 01:20 pm
Ask McCarthy about that little fact...
Oppy
March 30, 2023 at 05:20 pm
I guess you don't understand how season tickets work
jannesbjornson
March 30, 2023 at 10:53 pm
We have had them in the Family since 1957.
Oppy
March 31, 2023 at 12:35 pm
So you didn't sell them? Odd. What am I asking MM about?
NickPerry
March 30, 2023 at 07:47 am
NO, we want to get a veteran to BACKUP Jordon Love. Love is the starter and he DESERVES to be the starter until he doesn't. At least IMO.
"The big talk was we were All -in per Super-Bowl."
"Of trading ACR. The greatness he brought.
It looks like a cover -up of excuses since 2010."
I think one thing you're completely missing here is nobody doesn't/didn't think Rodgers was great. I could rattle off at least 100 specific throws by Rodgers since 2008 off the top of my head and 1000's more if given the time. Rodgers was a great QB and I appreciate everything he did in GB.
BUT, the time HAS come. Other than the obvious that he NO LONGER can get it done, the contract HAS TO GO! You do understand if they were to keep him this year, it's even WORSE for the Packers in 2024 right?
His defense gave him THREE 2nd half interceptions in the 2020 NFCCG IN Green Bay and he shit the bed. His defense played their best game in YEARS vs the 49ers in the NFC Divisional game IN Green Bay and he shit the bed...AGAIN.
The Packers awarded him with a $153 million dollar extension with the thought of having Rodgers for at least TWO MORE seasons and he just shit on them.
Don't you want to go to your favorite Packers site and instead of reading about the trip your QB took on Ayawaska? Or who he might throw under the bus next on McAfee? Or just when you thought it couldn't be any stranger a darkness retreat? Or my personal favorite BODY CLENSING! This weekly thing on MacAfee is a distraction AND a fucking sideshow in it's own right.
Based on Al's little vote yesterday of who people believe, Rodgers or Gute you my friend are in a very small minority. Rodgers is a master manipulator and press conferences and MacAfee are his stage. I CAN'T WAIT to see him interact with the NY Media and teammates, especially once he throws the HC or teammate under the bus...And he WILL!
jurp
March 30, 2023 at 08:09 am
Thanks, Nick, you saved me a lot of typing. And since the Bonkers Scale is still not working right (it gave sh's latest diatribe a value of pi, for some reason), piling on would be pointless.
stockholder
March 30, 2023 at 10:50 am
No - Gute made him the starter. MLF Didn’t!
He should not be treated any Different.
All in - Patched with FAs and Discards?
How do you call that successful drafting.
I say Gute is Sherman 2.0. Who TT fired!
Cheesehead is a hostile, Toxic place, against Rodgers.
Why would he come on here?
The fact the WRs and a OL were crap early going.
Not to mention the Criticism of Barry.
Only added to Rodgers Over trying and getting hurt.
You can’t appreciate what someones done.
if you stab them in the back.
The Time may have come.
But Gutey will be known more for getting rid of Rodgers
then building a Winner during his reign.
If your argument held a grain of sand.
They would have never given him that contract.
Trading Rodgers is a Fools Move.
Yet it surely will get a thumbs up,
If the tree is strong enough to hold the rope.
Coldworld
March 30, 2023 at 11:21 am
You thought the same of trading Favre and of TT. The irony is you’d have exiled your hero up until 2010.
stockholder
March 30, 2023 at 11:53 am
You repeat yourself too much.
The irony is he became the greatest of all Time.
Never said that about #4.
greengold
March 30, 2023 at 12:06 pm
...and, you have no business saying it about 12.
Give me Championships, Lombardi Trophies, not contrived stats & MVPs.
Coldworld
March 30, 2023 at 02:30 pm
I give you credit for acknowledging your stance on Rodgers and TT.
StarrtoRodgers
March 30, 2023 at 04:11 pm
Exactly, Aaron - just 1 year removed from consecutive passer rating title, in front of the other 31 other starting quarterbacks - will play out the 4 remaining years of his contract & his team will be in the playoffs those 4 years As for Jordan, the only data points we have is that he led all of College football in interceptions in his 2nd and last year as a starter and in the only game that he has started in the NFL - giving the team a chance to game plan - he was blitzed over and over and despite 9 men rushing him, he could not hit the consequently open receivers.
3 questions:
Jets GM Joe Douglas drafted Zach Wilson 2nd overall in the 2021 draft & watched the Jets trade for & draft QB Sam Darnold 3rd overall in 2018. Douglas then traded Sam Darnold, & benched Wilson, after Douglas had given up on the two 23 year olds after 38 starts for Darnold and 22 for Wilson.
The Jets were originally so high on Darnold that they traded 4 high picks to get Darnold - their 6th overall pick in 2018, 2018 37th overall pick, 2018 49th overall pick and their 2019 2nd round pick (which would be 34th overall).
1) Given that the Packers think so highly of Jordan Love that they are willing to give way the QB that won the passer rating title over 31 other starting QBs 2 of the last 3 years and is a 4 time MVP, wouldn't the Jets think the same & drop the idea of Aaron as their QB in an instant & jump at a Packer offer of young 24 yr old Jordan Love?
2) With Jordan so highly thought of, would the Jets give the Packers a Russell Wilson like package in return?:
3. Russell Wilson was traded for 7 players - the 9th (2022), 5th (2023), 40th (2022), 37th (2023) picks in the NFL Draft - all unconditional draft picks - & a young solid starting tight end (Noah Fant, the 20th pick in the 2019 draft) & a starting defensive end (Shelby Harris) & quarterback Drew Lock (2nd round 42nd overall pick in the 2019 draft - 6 players who will be Seattle starters and 2 of which (5th and 9th pick) will probably be all pros and a backup or possible starting QB in young Lock.
If no, why not?
croatpackfan
March 30, 2023 at 05:12 pm
Because Jordan Love is nice person and future of the football. ACR is past.
ACR is, maybe, not aware of that fact. But you and some others here will learn that soon (this or next season).
I hope you are satisfied with the answer on your question.
stockholder
March 30, 2023 at 06:34 pm
Nice persons finish Last.
Oppy
March 30, 2023 at 06:01 pm
Rodgers has made more sub-par throws than plus throws in the last several years.
There, I said it, and I meant it.
When he does make a plus throw, it's still a WOW throw. The thing is, they are few and far between. He's not the #12 of 2010-2014. He still has glimmers of former glory.
Far more typical of a Rodgers throw to be off target low, high, or behind than to see the WOW throws. It's just that nobody dares talk about those minus throws.
Tundraboy
March 30, 2023 at 06:50 pm
You are so spot on I had to screen shot this NP to share when needed.
croatpackfan
March 30, 2023 at 01:48 pm
"The big talk is full of lies. Smoke and mirrors."
I presume you are talking about ACR. His talk is always full of lies. You finally admit that. Bravo, stockholder! Your mancrush spent last day of his darkness retreat to polish his talk on PMS (translation: Pre Menstrual Syndrome).
He loves everybody, except Packers organization. They are bastards he do not want to have any business with them. That must be reason why he did not call them back. You would tell that he has knowledge how every FO in NFL do their job. He, obviously. do not.
What I read from you, I expect that NYJ will soon have new fan. They deserve that.
StarrtoRodgers
March 30, 2023 at 04:29 pm
Aaron - just 1 year removed from consecutive passer rating titles, placing him in front of the other 31 other starting quarterbacks - will play out the 4 remaining years of his contract & his team will be in the playoffs those 4 years.
As for Jordan, the only data points we have is that he led all of College football in interceptions in his 2nd and last year as a starter and in the only game that he has started in the NFL - giving the opponent (Chiefs) a week to game plan - he was blitzed over and over (18 times - https://aws.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LoveJo03/gamelog/advanced/) and despite 9 men rushing him, he could not hit the consequently open receivers - generated just 7 points and had a 69.5 passer rating.
Packers are 1 year removed from 13-3, 13-3, and 13-4 seasons and with a competent Management and QB should be in the playoffs in 2023-24.
3 questions:
Jets GM Joe Douglas drafted Zach Wilson 2nd overall in the 2021 draft & watched the Jets trade for & draft QB Sam Darnold 3rd overall in 2018. Douglas then traded Sam Darnold, & benched Wilson, after Douglas had given up on the two 23 year olds after 38 starts for Darnold and 22 for Wilson.
The Jets were originally so high on Darnold that they traded 4 high picks to get Darnold - their 6th overall pick in 2018, 2018 37th overall pick, 2018 49th overall pick and their 2019 2nd round pick (which would be 34th overall).
1) Given that the Packers think so highly of Jordan Love that they are willing to give way the QB that won the passer rating title over 31 other starting QBs 2 of the last 3 years and is a 4 time MVP, wouldn't the Jets think the same & drop the idea of Aaron as their QB in an instant & jump at a Packer offer of young 24 yr old Jordan Love?
2) With Jordan so highly thought of, would the Jets give the Packers a Russell Wilson like package in return?:
3. Russell Wilson was traded for 7 players - the 9th (2022), 5th (2023), 40th (2022), 37th (2023) picks in the NFL Draft - all unconditional draft picks - & a young solid starting tight end (Noah Fant, the 20th pick in the 2019 draft) & a starting defensive end (Shelby Harris) & quarterback Drew Lock (2nd round 42nd overall pick in the 2019 draft - 6 players who will be Seattle starters and 2 of which (5th and 9th pick) will probably be all pros and a backup or possible starting QB in young Lock.
If no, why not?
Oppy
March 30, 2023 at 05:30 pm
It's crazy that Jordan Love supposedly played sooo poorly vs. the chiefs..
and yet, it wasn't the worst performance by a Green Bay QB in 2021.
That honor belonged to Aaron Charles Rodgers, in the season opener, a game the first-ballot HoF'er had weeks to prepare for.
Duhawk_47
March 30, 2023 at 10:36 pm
We might call that game against KC an outlier, too:
J. Love - 19/34 - 190yds - 1 TD - 1 INT
P. Mahomes - 20/37 - 166yds - 1 TD - 0 INT
croatpackfan
April 01, 2023 at 10:22 am
And QB rating of:
J. Love - 69.49 (w/o INT= 81.74)
P.Mahomes - 74.83
Oppy
March 30, 2023 at 05:38 pm
For what it's worth, re: your points 1, 2, 3::
What if the Packers value Jordan Love more highly than Aaron Rodgers? Then it doesn't matter what the Jets want; they simply wouldn't give up Jordan Love, wouldn't even let the Jets talk to him. The buyer doesn't determine what's for sale or what the price is. The seller does.. or doesn't. If you believe you have a young QB capable of being a Franchise QB, you don't trade him.
As to #3, maybe the real question you should be asking yourself is, if Russell Wilson was worth so much, why isn't Rodgers worth that much?
Answer: He's old and he's known for being difficult. He alienates team mates and he has a history of disregarding the coaches. The End.
Tundraboy
March 30, 2023 at 06:55 pm
Pure gold.
Oppy
March 30, 2023 at 05:27 pm
I don't think you know what running a business looks like.
Handsback
March 30, 2023 at 06:45 am
If Love isn’t the answer, then your backup would have to be a proven vet that can win games. That player would be toooo expensive to obtain. If Love is the answer but gets hurt and have to go with a backup that could win some games that scenario’s solution is the same, Green Bay couldn’t afford that backup.
So with their limited resources the Packers will draft a QB this year maybe 4-5th round to add depth and possible starter if Love falters or is injured.
I can’t see them spending their few resources on a proven vet. Let’s face it …either Love makes it or they find a QB in future drafts.
Just MHO
jannesbjornson
March 30, 2023 at 07:34 am
Prisoner's dilemma.
TKWorldWide
March 30, 2023 at 07:52 am
Gangster’s Paradise
dobber
March 30, 2023 at 08:02 am
Charlotte's Web.
jurp
March 30, 2023 at 08:10 am
Lady and the Tiger?
LeotisHarris
March 30, 2023 at 08:34 am
I'll take Finnegans Wake for $500, TK
greengold
March 30, 2023 at 12:09 pm
Clint Eastwood
stockholder
March 30, 2023 at 10:58 am
If Love isn’t the answer??????
Thats a winning argument!
He's been given the keys to the city.
I can only Quote,
Love unwisely Given can only bring Sorrow
Coldworld
March 30, 2023 at 11:19 am
“What I cannot love, I overlook.” Anais Ninn.
croatpackfan
March 30, 2023 at 01:53 pm
Oh.. you must be the only one here with B&D enjoying in pain produced by ACR at the end of every season.
Go to Jets. They are second "factory of sadness", just one step behind Browns...
croatpackfan
March 31, 2023 at 03:13 pm
That is opinion and possibility. Not the argument!
Do you even know what is argument?
Cheesey51
March 30, 2023 at 07:45 pm
Ryan is a MLF guy and Matty isloyal to his coaches and players
I digress, Ryan would lend positive growth to Love with a system he did well in with MLF
I can be corrected, but I think half of leagues QB's missed more than one game. Ryan could be able to win a couple of games
Jim McMahon was there for a young Brett Favre and that turned out pretty darn good.
marpag1
March 30, 2023 at 06:59 am
Seems like there are always a few more guys out there than most of us are aware of, and a team's department of pro personnel will have files on virtually every player in the league. So hypothetically, if, let's say, the Texans select a QB at the top of the draft, are they still going to carry Case Keenum and Davis Mills on their roster? Or would they make one or the other available? I'm certainly not saying either of these guys should be targeted, it's just an example. Keenum as the crusty old vet (who is cheap) and Mills as a guy with a little more upside (who is even cheaper).
I think the reality of our cap space right now is probably the most important factor. We don't have enough for a top flight backup. He simply has to be cheap.
jannesbjornson
March 30, 2023 at 07:37 am
He would be a target, but he may not want to bounce around again...
greengold
March 30, 2023 at 07:07 am
Draft another QB.
That younger talent behind Love helps to cement the new leadership hierarchy. Huge advantages for your young team in establishing a new leader you want players to rally around.
Plus, there’s not much another vet could offer that Love hasn’t already seen backing up Rodgers for 3 years.
Then there’s the legend: QB Coach, Tom Clements.
Bing.
There’s a chance LaFleur can prove himself with Love as a true QB guru here, flipping the script. Do so with Etling and another drafted QB, and developing young R4s/R6s you can trade for R1s/R2s becomes a thing in GB. Again.
Detmer. Brunnell. Haslebeck. Warner.
PackEyedOptimist
March 30, 2023 at 07:26 am
Dang it GG! You posted this while I was writing my comment!
Glad someone else remembered Etling.
greengold
March 30, 2023 at 07:36 am
Lolz. It happens to me too.
While LaFleur lost a lot of respect in his handling/mishandling of AR through this tenure, AR was a special (head)case.
AR was forced upon him in 2022, after the marriage was broken during the SF playoff loss 2 seasons ago, when AR again went off script to pump Davante in AR’s last ditch effort to keep him in GB, over actually trying to win the game. Many felt AR should have been traded then. I think LaFleur felt the same.
Regardless, LaFleur has an opportunity at redemption here if he can regularly mold young, latter round picks into NFL starting talents - and, more importantly, guide his team back into real contention.
Guam
March 30, 2023 at 08:14 am
Nailed it GG. Love has had three years watching a future HOF QB. He has an excellent QB coach. And the Packers have no cap space for a veteran. Draft a QB.
Sidebar: If the Packers had the cap room to sign a veteran QB, don't you think they would be better off using that cap space to sign a veteran TE or a veteran WR or veteran DL? I would much rather see the Packers use whatever cap space they might have to sign a starter in a place of need (TE!) than a backup QB.
Coldworld
March 30, 2023 at 10:44 am
Absolutely to the point in your second paragraph. Any spending we can make should be to help the team if Love is adequate and increase the chances of that. A back up wont save us if he’s not, or gets hurt, just maybe make our picks a little bit less valuable next year. This is time for big picture perspectives.
greengold
March 30, 2023 at 12:20 pm
Definitely, Guam!
Put as many of the best quality pieces around Jordan Love as you can afford. Another veteran TE is, indeed, my top choice for using those funds.
Quite frankly, I can't wait to see where Mercedes Lewis decides to play. I think there is a chance he's sick of AR's schtick as much as many other players & fans, and would find it absolutely hilarious, ... glorious, if he chose GB over NYJ.
Been waiting patiently for that one... LOL!
If Big Dog picks GB, that will be a statement. If he picks NYJ, that might be a mistake.
I'd take Big Dog back in a heartbeat. Did Gutekunst & Lewis already had those discussions when his contract was not renewed? There's a chance that happened. Maybe they're on the same page.
Makes me wonder how many players were wanting Love to be QB1 last year?
beerandbrats
March 30, 2023 at 07:21 am
Excellent article Tim! The Packers definitely need to keep planning for the future in case Love doesn't work out. I would draft a QB to develop while putting Love on a 3 year clock to prove he is the guy. Teams like the 70s and 80s Packers spend years searching for that franchise QB. Look at MN, DET and CHI these past 30 years. If QB is in fact the most important position, it's very important to keep drafting and developing until we find that next franchise QB!
PackEyedOptimist
March 30, 2023 at 07:25 am
First off, how do we get this far in the article + comments without any mention of Danny Etling? I personally liked what I saw of him last preseason, and he's 28, from LSU, 6'3", 220;
he has 5 years of NFL experience (he spent time on the practice squads of the Patriots, Atlanta Falcons, Seattle Seahawks and Denver Broncos, and Minnesota Vikings), etc. and most importantly, he has a year in MLF's system.
HE is our "veteran with experience."
What we want is a rookie with potential as a backup.
TKWorldWide
March 30, 2023 at 07:48 am
Good point!
Especially the experience IN THE MLF SYSTEM part.
Seated comfortably? This might cause some unpleasant flashbacks:
Ok: last year they brought in Watkins. Part of the appeal was the “experienced veteran” angle for all the young receivers. I’m sure some of his veteran savvy was helpful, but, when he’s learning the system at the same time the rookies are learning it, well, it’s gotta be a little less impactful than if his experience was in that system.
BTW is all the talk about the “MLF System” being overused? “12 didn’t run it”, “Now we get to see how it’s supposed to operate with Love at the controls”…
marpag1
March 30, 2023 at 08:28 am
It's not wrong to say that Etling has 5 years of NFL experience.
To say that he has never taken a regular season NFL snap is also not wrong.
Oppy
March 30, 2023 at 05:45 pm
Also, to say that he at one time tried to convert to RB (when he was in ATL) to give him the best option of remaining in the NFL is also not wrong.
Etling is the definition of a camp arm.
If the pre-covid rules were in place, at this point his practice squad eligibility would be up and he'd probably be out of the NFL.
Seems like a nice guy, He's a good football player, he's just not an NFL level QB you can keep on a 53 man roster. He's a talented guy who takes reps off your real QB's arms during training camp.
TKWorldWide
March 30, 2023 at 07:28 am
Like a Bridgewater
Over troubled…um, …waters
They could sign him on
But their cap’s (nearly) overdrawn
I’d prefer the veteran route but doubt they have the $, so put me in the “draft one” group.
But don’t EVER try to put me on the “Worry Bus”.
dobber
March 30, 2023 at 08:03 am
Got a seat all cleaned up for ya!
TKWorldWide
March 30, 2023 at 07:59 am
Hey! Another idea on this topic:
Were all those successful backup QB’s during Wolf/Holmgren era due to the Holmgren (Walsh) west coast system? Or to excellent coaching? Or to Favre’s tutoring? (I’m gonna say ‘no’ to that one right away) Or to the fact those QB’s were surrounded by a strong team?
Anybody else read Moneyball? Closers are overvalued and you can get a lot for them in trade. Could it be that good backup QB’s (or, those perceived as ‘good’) are also overvalued trade commodities?
LambeauPlain
March 30, 2023 at 10:04 am
TK...count me as a vote for great coaching. It is greater than a great system. And great coaching can make average talent above average.
By great coaching, I mean ALL the coaching on the staff. Great coaching on Defense can make O players better and vice versa. After all, they spend the vast majority of their time on the practice field.
Coldworld
March 30, 2023 at 11:32 am
A scheme is a template, nothing more. It’s what you do with that and how you combine it with your playing talent that gets the most out of both and indicates great coaching. Bad coaching will defeat any scheme and roster, just as a flawed scheme will undermine talent.
greengold
March 30, 2023 at 01:24 pm
All of the above, except for Favre. Great HC, former QB Coach to Montana & Young, former OC of Bill Walsh, established a great system in GB, scheme, players, staff. Everyone excelled, or they were out.
GB became a hotbed for success, and their coaching staff was regularly raided, as were their backup QBs, which Holmgren & Wolf together turned into commodities in the trade market.
Yeah, they were overvalued, but, other GMs pine for that level of success, and attached themselves gladly.
HarryHodag
March 30, 2023 at 08:02 am
This question is not an 'either-or' question. The Packers could sign a veteran AND draft a QB. Ron Wolf's philosophy is a good one: draft one every year. Eventually you'll strike gold.
There are a few vets hanging around who could do a good job as a back up.
The on-going Aaron Rodgers feud is also holding up the Packers knowing what they have money wise. Rodgers, in one example, could have enough of all this and simply retire, leaving the Packers in a mell of a hess.
dobber
March 30, 2023 at 08:09 am
The Packers will find the room to put a journeyman vet in camp. Mot of the more recognizable names are gone, but they've already been connected to Carson Wentz. People will cringe at that, but he's exactly what a team would be looking for in a vet backup that they DON'T intend to use. Etling will be in camp, but there are lots of Danny Etlings out there and he's an emergency stopgap. I wouldn't be surprised if he's pushed off the PS for a late-round developmental draftee with upside.
PatrickGB
March 30, 2023 at 09:37 am
I DO cringe at that. But I get your point.
jannesbjornson
March 30, 2023 at 10:08 am
No Wince.
Coldworld
March 30, 2023 at 08:09 am
This discussion loses me somewhat. As I see it this is a cap recovery and player development year. If Love remains healthy then we take the lumps and give him the best chance to grow and establish himself.
If he isn’t good then next year we are in the QB hunt, veteran and draft probably, but that’s a better class and we should be better off cap wise if still not fully recovered.
If Love gets hurt, I don’t see an affordable vet making a significant difference. So, in on field terms, I don’t see the point of replacing Etling.
Where a vet could help is as a whisperer. Probably Favre’s best Clipboard holder was Deadly Doug Pederson. He was never taking us anywhere if he had to start, but he was a smart ear and counselor and cheap. I don’t see an equivalent.
In fact, a smart guy who has been around the league a while but not as a starter is a profile that actually fits Etling. He’s also extremely mobile, which could be used to hold on in a game and has a decent arm. Pederson had started a few games, mostly in his rookie year, it is true.
I would not waste cap on a vet, or at least any I see out there. In another year I might draft in the mid rounds, but not this year.
There are, however, some interesting QBs that seem to have talent and obvious technical flaws who are likely to be available late. I’d take one and let Clements do his thing and keep Etling as number 2. A guy like Max Dugan, Myles Brennan or Tim Demorat. Physical talent but technically flawed and who have arm strength. Exactly the type that Clements could turn around. Late round or UDFA. More upside than ones that will be drafted before them. Take 2 and let them compete to be QB3.
I just don’t see the cost benefit case for a higher draft this year or any currently likely-to-be available back up. This seems just like a knee jerk comfort urge, and an empty one at that.
Since'61
March 30, 2023 at 10:19 am
Coldworld I think that your approach is correct. Draft a QB this season and/or even sign a UDFA. They can battle it out behind Etling for the #3 spot. Let Clements work his magic with them and see where it goes.
2024 will be the key season for the Packers in the short term. After taking our lumps in 2023 we should see the Packers begin to come back to form in 2024. Then by 2025 Love will have 2 seasons of starting experience behind him plus his receivers will have grown with him. The Packers should be ready to return to a deep playoff run.
Our cap situation should be greatly improved enabling the Packers to sign high impact FAs where necessary to compete the roster. Plus Murphy will be retired prior to the beginning of the 2025 season which hopefully will mean bringing in a new regime focused on moving Packers football from a hobby to the primary core business in Green Bay again.
Sign a Vet FA QB in '24 or '25 and go from there. Thanks, Since '61
WD
March 30, 2023 at 11:15 am
Totally agree. Best response to this question yet. let us get a full assessment of Love before rushing into speculation about backup QBs. Besides, at this point we already have a backup veteran QB. Aaron Rodgers. You may have heard of him.
CJBauckham
March 30, 2023 at 10:19 am
Just out of curiosity, where have you read Tim DeMorat has plus arm strength? Had him marked down as a minus for that, based on a couple diff sites
Coldworld
March 30, 2023 at 11:14 am
Just the opposite of what I’ve seen and read, though PFN would agree with you. Technically much work needed, but he throws a tight spiral and has distance. His issues are in the throwing motion and its consistency, and probably more noticeably over the middle than outside. His footwork and base is all over the place, which leads to accuracy issues and inconsistency, but their no huddle O meant that was not a focus. His technique is responsible for his detractors on longer passes.
Here is one that sums it up https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Tim-DeMorat-QB-Fordham
CJBauckham
March 30, 2023 at 11:31 am
Didn't mean the question negatively in anyway (unsure why it got downvoted), just wanted to see if there was a source I was unfamiliar with that I could add to my list.
Haven't watched his film yet; could very well be I end up disagreeing with reports once I see him. Gotta trust the eyes. Thanks for the reply, Coldworld.
Coldworld
March 30, 2023 at 11:47 am
It’s a fair point. I’ve spent more time looking at late/UDFA QBs this year. The WRs, TEs, Edges and others are well scouted and many others have discussed them in detail. For once QB seemed relevant and interesting, so I get why you asked.
Obviously they are late/UDFA predictions for reasons, and DeMorat is likely a UDFA, but if we are looking for upside, a few of them have that, if they can be coached. He’s one I believe (and some others have the same opinion) could/should have a great deal of potential to improve through the sort of thing Clements does best. All three I listed are.
In our situation, they represent an ideal option in my opinion. Their upside is higher than any mid round type in the draft this year, I believe, while the floors of neither group are high enough to matter. It’s a very weak QB pool in terms of current ability. That’s why it’s interesting to me.
I’d be interested in your take on any of them. There are a few others too that I’m still getting to. I look for a decent arm, evidence of progression, decent athleticism and arm strength/spiral, height and weight and flaws that I know are both capable of correction and that I can see a tie-in with their current shortcomings. If I don’t see significant potential upside if that’s addressed, I move on.
Leatherhead
March 30, 2023 at 11:19 am
"""If Love gets hurt, I don’t see an affordable vet making a significant difference. So, in on field terms, I don’t see the point of replacing Etling. """
Here's my counter to that. We have 22 starters, 3 special teams guys. Everybody else is a backup, and the single most important backup is the backup QB, so that would put the backup QB somewhere around #26 on the roster. If he is actually needed, to finish a game or start a few, then he becomes more important than #26.
You have to have a team that can win with a backup, that goes without saying. But you also have to have a backup who can help you win. Remember the GumChewer? We had a pretty good team that had been to the Championship game the year before, and we were 4-1 when Rodgers got hurt in the Viking game, and finished with 7 wins.
If Love doesn't get hurt at all, and doesn't miss any snaps, it doesn't matter.
If Love missed some time, it's going to matter.
If Love misses the majority of the season, it's going to matter.
If Love returns in 2024 coming off an injury, it's going to matter.
If Love doesn't play well, it's going to matter.
XXXXXXXXXXX
I facetiously said that Zach Wilson would be our backup, but the longer I think about it, the less crazy it sounds in my head. This guy played well enough to go 5-4 with the same team that the other two QBs went 2-6 with. If I read the info at Spotrac correctly, he'd only be about a $3 million drag on the cap and we'd have him for two years if we wanted him.
And then THAT got me thinking that if we can't get the deal done before the draft, and we still want the trade to benefit the Packers on the field this year, we'd be looking at players. And I see Ruckert, a third round pick , who got the Amari Rodgers treatment as a rookie and only got targeted twice all year; he caught one and dropped one. He only played 46 snaps all year, so the Jets aren't going to miss this guy and we could use him. And he'd be cheap.
Some of you draft guys will remember Ruckert from the draft a year ago. He was pretty well regarded, if I recall.
If Rodgers only plays 1 more year, then getting two guys like this is probably close to fair. If he plays in 2024, then we should probably get a pick in the 2024 draft on Day Two. This is more than we got for Favre, it gets a better QB on the field, it gets us a backup with experience and an upside, it gets us a guy who will improve the TE room, and it might get us a pick in the draft.
It's not a bonanza, but it's not nothing, either.
RCPackerFan
March 30, 2023 at 08:23 am
I am guessing the Packers will draft a guy. They are going to want to have the minimum salary for a few years. This will help them financially, but also it allows them to develop another guy. Developing another guy would be great for many reasons. Developing a guy at the minimum could allow them to have a good backup for a few years. Perhaps he develops into a starting caliber player. If that happens they can trade him for assets.
Another reason why it would be good to draft a guy is it would allow Love to also become the leader of the room and allow him to help teach what he knows to a younger guy. He could be more in the mentor role.
I think they end up drafting a guy. And if he doesn't look like he will be a capable backup they will look to bring in a veteran during the preseason to get ready for the season.
jurp
March 30, 2023 at 09:23 am
"...it would allow Love to also become the leader of the room and allow him to help teach what he knows to a younger guy. He could be more in the mentor role. "
Good point. In my experience, many people learn the "whys" of what they're doing by teaching than by doing. Poor example: You might be the best fitter of part A into slot B in the world, but you won't know WHY you fit part A into slot B until you train someone to do it.
RCPackerFan
March 30, 2023 at 09:48 am
Sometimes while explaining/showing things to someone else, they bring up questions that you didn't think about and make you see things differently. And sometimes it makes you have to explain things differently then how you learned it which allows you to see more sides of what you are teaching. It allows you to grow more.
I think back to when Rodgers was his first year starter. They drafted Brohm and Flynn. Perhaps Rodgers taking over that leadership role helped him become a better QB. We obviously don't know.
Since'61
March 30, 2023 at 08:44 am
If it were not for the Packers being "limited financially" I would go for signing a vet FA. BTW yesterday I was informed that the term Cap Hell is a pejorative term and that the Packers are not in Cap Hell!!!??? Therefore I am utilizing Gute's term "limited financially" as my code phrase for Cap Hell. During the owners' meeting this week when Gute was asked about re-signing Mason Crosby he replied that the "Packers are limited financially." If it's good for Gute it's good for me.
In any case, if the Packers were not "limited financially" I would go with signing a vet FA and with drafting a QB in the later rounds. I agree with Nick Perry that Matt Ryan would be a perfect choice for a FA Vet QB signing. But alas it looks like a draft pick and possibly a UDFA will be the best that the Packers can do for 2023. Let's hope that Love is not one of those brittle players that we see from time to time. IMO he'll be fine injury wise.
Moving on the QB position group proves to be yet another position group where the Packers need to add depth for 2023. I believe that Etling is still on the roster but speaking for myself I have no idea if he can be effective in the backup QB role. Hopefully we won't need to find out.
With Clements on the coaching staff it makes perfect sense to draft a QB for him to develop as he is bringing Love along in the starting role. Both players will benefit from his expertise and the backup could ultimately become the starter if Love flops or he can be traded for picks after a few seasons under Clements tutelage. For me this is another reason to look forward to CHTVs draft guide so I can check out the possible QB prospects for the Packers to acquire during the draft. Thanks, Since '61
HarryHodag
March 30, 2023 at 09:09 am
I spent nearly my entire professional career around people who couldn't say a cat was a cat. It was a 'feline'. Those folks spend much time finding what I term 'wiggle room language'. The education sector has its own language which is an overly convoluted form of English.
The Packers are in CAP HELL.
Bitternotsour
March 30, 2023 at 09:36 am
It's not Cap Hell. It's cap purgatory. It's not forever. Unless you're the Saints, in which case it's Cap Hell.
And truly, the road to hell was paved with good intentions. One last dance. A final futile swing.
Gutekunst will get the roster and budget back under control. Murphy will be retired.
Since'61
March 30, 2023 at 09:50 am
Harry I agree with you. I spent my entire professional career consulting with mostly Forbes 100 CEOs and telling them what needed to be done to keep their companies on track. They don't enjoy hearing the truth especially when it comes to some of their own failings. I become very good at their "wiggle room language" and I learned how to get the message through effectively to move forward.
All professions have their own language whether it's lawyers, doctors, musicians, sports, etc. The great thing about the English language, which can be convoluted, is that it is flexible enough to communicate effectively in almost any situation. Wherever I traveled around the world during my business travels English was the language that was always used for business. Numerous business terms just do not translate very well into local languages, especially in Asia.
I can hold my own with the Romance languages but even with them English is the preferred language in a business environment. English is currently taught in elelmentary schools in South Korea, Japan, China, throughout Europe and South America, that I know of. Sadly many of the young people in foreign countries can speak English better than young people who have grown up and gone to school in the US. No excuse for that.
Heck, I grew up in the Bronx and we had our own version of English just in my particular neighborhood. But even there a cat was always a cat. And Cap Hell is Cap Hell but "limited financially" will suffice for a while.
All the best to you Harry. Thanks, Since '61
Leatherhead
March 30, 2023 at 12:47 pm
How so, Net?
According to Spotrac, we're under the cap right now. We're projected, right now, to be over the projected cap for 2024, but that assumes that people like Rodgers and Bakhtiari are still on the team. Including them, we have 10 guys that we are paying: Rodgers, Bakhtiari, Clark,Love, Jones, Smith, Jenkins, Campbell and Douglas are all scheduled for $11 million or more, four guys are making between $1.5 milion and $4 million, and everybody else is making $1.5 million or less.
The high dollar guys are all older guys who we'll be replacing anyway.
I'm not seeing CAP HELL unless the definition of cap hell is that we can't spend a bunch of money on shiny FAs. We're able to keep the guys we want and replace the guys we don't.
Our cap situation is workable today, and will be better in a year.
greengold
March 30, 2023 at 01:37 pm
Hey LH, did you read TGR's piece a week or so ago on this?
Pretty insightful.
Coldworld
March 30, 2023 at 09:22 am
To whom Is “cap hell” perjorative? Cap wearers or are there sensitive demon self-identifying types (probably not an ideal profile if true)?
It’s Cap Hell. Call it like it is and don’t let it be sanitized and dissolved in bland gobbledygook.
jurp
March 30, 2023 at 09:25 am
Obfuscation is often the home of incompetence.
TKWorldWide
March 30, 2023 at 09:38 am
It’s also a word I had to look up.
Duhawk_47
March 30, 2023 at 11:07 pm
When you looked it up, was there an Aaron Rodgers interview linked to the definition, by chance?
Since'61
March 30, 2023 at 10:03 am
Jurp - Gute and Murphy are masters of obfuscation. It comes with their jobs. Thanks, Since '61
jurp
March 30, 2023 at 10:23 am
True. But in many cases, (not this one, IMO), obfuscation is often meant to cloud an issue/deceive the hearers. This is why politicians are so damned good at it.
Frankly, I'm more alarmed by anyone in power using the passive voice, because that's when they're evading responsibility for something they've done or are planning to do. Another great skill of politicians.
LambeauPlain
March 30, 2023 at 10:13 am
Yes it is. And the enemy of self reflection and continuous improvement.
Since'61
March 30, 2023 at 10:02 am
Coldworld to protect the guilty I will not reveal their identity. I'll just handle it with "limited financially" since Gute used it to explain the Packers reasoning for not re-signing Mason Crosby. Quite frankly "limited financially" puts a fine point on the Packers current Cap Hell situation. Thanks, Since '61
Coldworld
March 30, 2023 at 12:07 pm
“La vérité vaut bien qu’on passe quelques années sans la trouver.” Jules Renard
T7Steve
March 30, 2023 at 02:47 pm
Greek to me? LOL
Coldworld
March 30, 2023 at 03:02 pm
loosely, despite killing the romance: “The most worthwhile truths take considerable time to uncover.”
Since'61
March 30, 2023 at 07:51 pm
Oui mais le résultat vaut toujours la peine d'attendre. Thanks, Since '61
Tundraboy
March 30, 2023 at 07:40 pm
Superb points you have made today Since 61. "Llimited financially. At least we all can now speak the same language. We have a common bond!
greengold
March 30, 2023 at 06:04 pm
I think “Cap Hell,” means different things to different people.
I put my Dad through it as a kid, banging rolls of those red beauties on rocks during family camping trips.
packerbackerjim
March 30, 2023 at 10:18 am
Stetson Bennett is an interesting player. Swagger, some face palm moments, 2 straight National Championships, old for a rookie, decent arm, might be worth a late round pick.
greengold
March 30, 2023 at 01:37 pm
Totally agree, Jim.
Tundraboy
March 30, 2023 at 07:41 pm
Yes. I'd like to see what he could be
TKWorldWide
March 30, 2023 at 10:26 am
So, if I don’t live right, I won’t face “hell”, but rather I’d be “limited eternally”?
Sounds a little more bearable.
jurp
March 30, 2023 at 10:28 am
LOL. The road to being limited eternally is paved with well-meant but mistaken actions?
LeotisHarris
March 30, 2023 at 08:46 am
The next Fightin' Joe Callahan is out there preparing to take the reins, seize his opportunity to grab the bull by the horns and climb the hill to reach his destiny. Right now, as we sit, he's chucking spirals at an old BF Goodrich T/A in his backyard, working, dreaming, loosing up the ol' arm. He has moxie, and grit. Trust me.
Leatherhead
March 30, 2023 at 08:51 am
Zach Wilson.
RCPackerFan
March 30, 2023 at 09:18 am
I liked Wilson in the draft. He has a ton of skills. One of the problems with WIlson is he had to play right away and wasn't allowed time to develop. Sometimes young players need time to sit and develop. Playing them before they are ready, can do more harm then good.
Obviously Packers allowed Rodgers to sit and develop. They did the same thing with Love. Chiefs did that with Mahommes.
We will see how Love does, but based on what we had seen his first couple of years, he wasn't ready. Last year he looked like he was ready.
Leatherhead
March 30, 2023 at 09:28 am
I'm only 50% serious.
Look, the Jets don't want to part with their picks. They Packers want those picks to get players. But the deal is unlikely to be consummated before the draft.
So the alternative is that the Packers get players instead of picks. They have no use for Wilson, and we do. We'd also have a use for Jeremy Ruckert, who would be a plus starter at a position where we don't have one.
""We will see how Love does, but based on what we had seen his first couple of years, he wasn't ready. Last year he looked like he was ready."""
And that's why we didn't trade Rodgers last year or the year before....we didn't have a replacement ready AND he was the reigning MVP. You don't trade away the MVP, especially if you don't have a good replacement. But now, he's not the MVP, and his replacement, according to Gutekunst and the guys on the practice field, is ready to play.
RCPackerFan
March 30, 2023 at 09:58 am
Oh i know.
I just thought it was a good time to bring up how playing a young QB right away can basically ruin a guy and while developing a QB and allowing them to play when they are ready they can succeed.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if this trade brought us 1-2 players back. The most popular name is Corey Davis. It makes sense. We need a veteran WR, and the Jets don't really need him. But his contract would need to be reworked.
Ruckert would make sense as well if the Packers were high on him.
I know a lot of people before talked about getting rid of Rodgers last offseason. Had Love played in that Chiefs game more like he did in the Eagles game this year I think the Packers would have moved on. But Love simply wasn't ready. He looks to be now.
And that is basically what my original point was with Wilson and other young QB's. Too many teams make the mistake of playing QB's before they are ready to play. And when they do more QB's seem to fail then not.
Leatherhead
March 30, 2023 at 10:07 am
I don't think there's ONE right way to develop a QB. Some guys are ready right out of the box, like Peyton Manning. Brady, Mahomes, Jackson and others had a chance to sit and observe for a while but were still ready early.
There is a long, long list of rookie QBs being forced to start on bad teams, and quite a few of them end up being failures.
The Packer Way.....is apparently they want to get a good prospect....Favre, Rodgers, Love....and then let them develop. Favre was on the bench when he got forced into action by an injury or he might have spent even longer on the bench.
The Bears way is to trade up, draft a guy, fail to put a team around them, and then get rid of them.
The Vikings way is to get a FA QB, or trade for one.
StarrtoRodgers posted some nonsense about Rodgers being the reason we make the playoffs all the time. No. The ORGANIZATION that drafts and develops guys like Rodgers, and puts a team around them, is the reason the Packers make the playoffs so often.
RCPackerFan
March 30, 2023 at 10:44 am
There isn't one right way. But I think the best way is to make sure the QB is ready to play before he plays. And yes making sure the talent is around him before he plays is also crucial. Think about David Carr with the Texans. He potentially could have been a tremendous QB but the team around him was not good and he was running for his life pretty much his entire career. By the time they got a good team around him, he was damaged goods.
Coldworld
March 30, 2023 at 11:28 am
So many examples of QBs about whom that’s been suggested over the years. There’s no one method for all, QBs are different individuals, but it’s a rare one that couldn’t be improved before starting in my opinion and a rarer one still that doesn’t need time to improve after.
MainePackFan
March 30, 2023 at 02:13 pm
"The most popular name is Corey Davis. It makes sense."
RC.
Davis would be a good option, but the trouble is we would have to take on his 10.5M salary. That isn't an option unless there is a way to negotiate his contract before trading for him.
RCPackerFan
March 30, 2023 at 05:04 pm
Do have to wonder why this trade is taking so long. Perhaps, they are trying to rework a few contracts to make the trade work. Maybe Corey Davis is apart of it but they are negotiating his contract. No clue if there is any of this has any truth to it, but have to at least kind of wonder if there is at least a remote possibility of if it being true.
MainePackFan
March 31, 2023 at 11:08 am
It certainly could be the case. We'll just shove a little more money into future dead cap hits : )
Oppy
March 30, 2023 at 05:17 pm
Actually, Love showed an awful lot of positive in the KC game.
Since'61
March 30, 2023 at 10:27 am
LH excellent point about Ruckert. I think that if the Packers can acquire Jeremy Ruckert in the Rodgers trade it would be an excellent move. it removes the pressure to draft a TE in the early rounds and provides a starting TE for the Packers TE room. I would still draft a TE for depth but at least whoever we would draft they would now have a chance to develop behind Ruckert. Thanks, Since '61
TKWorldWide
March 30, 2023 at 10:35 am
Agreed, Wilson was highly regarded going into that draft. Whatever talent he showed at BYU, he still has. Yet at this point, he’s labeled a bust. So, I’m with you that the Jets mishandled him.
This year, there are a number of highly regarded QBs: Bryce Young, CJ Stroud, Will Levis, Anthony Richardson…which ones will boom and which ones will bust? The teams picking those guys think they’re going to be set at QB, but history tells us they won’t all be!
RCPackerFan
March 30, 2023 at 10:59 am
Out of the guys you mentioned, I think it really depends on which player goes to which team. I think the fit is as important as the player.
We can safely assume, that the Panthers, Texans, and the Colts will take a QB. Who will that 4th team possibly target a QB? Would a somewhat of a surprise team take a QB like the Seahawks or Lions. How about the Raiders, Falcons, Commanders, Titans, Vikings. There are a number of teams that could potentially be looking to take a QB.
TKWorldWide
March 30, 2023 at 09:08 pm
Yes, and I’m still perplexed when a team selects a QB that ISN’T a good scheme fit. (Rich Campbell, anyone?)
greengold
March 30, 2023 at 10:01 pm
Randy Wright was so wrong.
… what?
Coldworld
March 30, 2023 at 11:30 am
I’m not keen on a rebuild attempt at this time. I’d rather have a young guy to build and less baggage when starting a new QB in front of him.
greengold
March 30, 2023 at 01:38 pm
The Jets would have to pay US to take him... and, they just might. We'll see.
beerandbrats
March 30, 2023 at 02:55 pm
Good one LH! I too thought the Pack should try to get Zach Wilson if he is still serviceable. I didn't think the Jets would give him up because he can sit the bench for a year and learn from the best. It might be a red flag if they're willing to trade him (damaged goods).
If he's not damaged goods, Zach Wilson would push Jordan Love for that starting position. Competition for the starting spot should make Jordan Love even better.
We still don't know if Jordan Love is the next franchise QB so any competitive young guns we can add is a plus in my book.
greengold
March 30, 2023 at 03:18 pm
There is Zach Wilson's $9.56M contract... tho... $11.2M next year.
That's way too much jack, for Zach.
Get a younger & far less expensive talent late round or UDFA.
Leatherhead
March 31, 2023 at 11:56 am
I think you don't have that completely correct....
A big chunk of Wilson's money is the signing bonus, which we wouldn't be responsible for. We'd have to pay his salary and his roster bonus, which would be about $4 million this year, and $5 million next year.
If you could get QBs with Wilson's talent in the late rounds or as a UDFA, then people wouldn't take guys like him early in the first. Just saying, if you want a quality meal, you start with quality ingredients, and if you want a quality backup, you start with a guy who has some talent.
AND.....he's a vet who has started , and won, games, which no rookie or UDFA has. He's 13-18 as a starter. I think you'd have to get lucky to get a guy as good on Day 3, or as a UDFA, and then you'd still need some time to get him up to speed. IMO, Wilson is a much safer choice in that regard.
Wilson had a real bad game, with a 50.8 passer rating (slightly lower than Rodgers worst game last year). And then he ran his pie hole and dug himself in deeper, and then he got benched.
Just saying, we need a backup QB, and if Love gets hurt, it'd be nice to have a guy who might be able to finish out a win or even win a game or two as a starter if necessary. IMO, Wilson gives us a better shot than any rookie would. And IMO, he has more of an upside than some used up old vet like Matt Ryan.
greengold
March 31, 2023 at 12:01 pm
No. Sorry I didn't mention this aspect of them trading Zach Wilson, but, NYJ would be on the hook for the "dead cap."
While we would have to take on his salary, the Jets would be forced to include his dead cap monies into their own cap charges.
Wilson's contract, nonetheless, may be a non-starter with the Packers anyway over the next two seasons.
That figure seems to not align with him being included by the Jets in a trade, given the amount of cap charges they would incur, coupled with NYJ still needing to re-sign Quinnen Williams.
I've been trying to show this in other discussions, and I should have made that more clear here in this one...
Seems we might find better value with a late round pick or a UDFA, regardless.
T7Steve
March 30, 2023 at 09:04 am
Etling is the backup (as comments above agree). Draft a camp body.
This season should be nothing about QB. There are too many other holes to fill that, if they aren't, will damage any QBs career (see Rodgers last season).
San Fran didn't hit on a Tom Brady in the 7th round last season. They had a team built to support any QB who stepped on the field. In fact, that's what the Patriots had when they went to Tom B.
If this team doesn't continue to build that way, who the QB is will be moot.
Leatherhead
March 30, 2023 at 09:29 am
So, if Love gets injured and is going to miss some games, we're just going to throw the season away?
I'm not down with that. Even a guy like Zach Wilson won games last year.
T7Steve
March 30, 2023 at 09:35 am
No. If we don't successfully put a better team together, the season is gone anyway. Like last season. We had an MVP QB AND a 1st round pick for backup. How did that work out?
Leatherhead
March 30, 2023 at 10:10 am
Steve. We didn't have an MVP at QB. We had a guy who USED TO BE an MVP. He surely wasn't an MVP in 2022. He was a very average QB who had some poor games, particularly in his last two must-win games.
I think we've got a pretty good team. Best defense in the division, Jones and Dillon in the backfield, a veteran offensive line........weaker teams have won games.
I'm not buying that we don't have a good enough team to compete with competent quarterbacking.
PackAttack4155
March 30, 2023 at 10:27 am
Best defense in the division isn't saying much. But... win the division, and you're in the playoffs!
golfpacker1
March 30, 2023 at 12:12 pm
The defense wasn't the problem. The offense scored one less point than the defense gave up.
370 scored to 371 against. Our offense seemed very sluggish last year. Stats can be misinterpreted but with 5 more TDs last year we win 4 more games and send one into OT. We scored 98 4th quarter points last year with 32 of those in 2 games, Bears & Vikings.
If Rodgers didn't break the thumb, he would have had a better statistical year. But it also would have helped a lot if he had worked with the young WR like a leader and team player would have done. I think the chemistry will be better simply because Love won't give the impression, he is better than everyone.
Leatherhead
March 30, 2023 at 12:59 pm
Winning the division is always where you have to start, because if you win the division you're in the playoffs. Last year we went 1-3 against the Vikings and Lions and finished in 3rd and missed the playoffs. If we win even ONE of the three games we lost, we're in.
The Vikings are in front. Detroit has pulled even. How are we going to beat these guys this year?
T7Steve
March 30, 2023 at 10:29 am
Agree LH. We have a good team that has holes to fill, so it doesn't have to be about the QB. And we went into last season with an MVP QB and you answered my question about how that went.
You pretty much summed up my whole point nicely. Better than I did actually. As in any season, all three phases have to click. Execute well and stay healthy. Then Love won't have to do anything special till we get to the playoffs. Like Pat Maholmes did his first season as a starter.
Thanks.
Leatherhead
March 30, 2023 at 12:57 pm
We do have holes to fill. On offense, we could use a backup QB and a TE and a WR. IMO, our #7, #8, and #9 offensive linemen could be upgraded (getting a starting RT in the draft would be huge).
My point, which I keep trying to make, is that we weren't very good on offense last year (for several reasons) , but if we make the right moves, it could be better this season.
We had two HOF QBs on the team in 2005, and we went 4-12. And neither of our QBs looked like an HOFer that year.
T7Steve
March 30, 2023 at 01:46 pm
Thanks again. I agree with you 100%. It's more about the team than just QB this year and that's a breath of fresh air.
Still figuring about last season. One problem was the lack TDs. In 2020 it was called the Gold Zone. We scored TDs on how many opening drives? Back to the Red Zone in 2019. Was it the Sludge Zone in 2022?
greengold
March 30, 2023 at 02:00 pm
I agree 100%. I think we'll make the playoffs this year/win the division.
Packman60
March 30, 2023 at 09:18 am
The Packers have 2 5th round picks. I would expect that they'll use one of them on a QB. Haener from Fresno State or Tune from Houston could be good late mid-round developmental candidates. They don't have the cap space to pay a veteran and if Love gets hurt they aren't likely to win many games anyway.
PatrickGB
March 30, 2023 at 09:41 am
Packman and Moo, I also agree. With that extra fifth rounder it makes sense to grab one there. I have no idea who it should be and leave it to the scouts and FO.
Coldworld
March 30, 2023 at 03:36 pm
Haener is short and he’s also small framed (about 200 pounds), with small hands and small arms. The nearest analogy would be hoping for a Doug Flutie, who is a true outlier. He also doesn’t have a lot of arm strength and has dealt with a lot of injuries.
I like his attitude and he’s got pretty good technique, but I don’t see him as a high ceiling type at all. In fact he’s an archetypal highish floor low ceiling type for me. I think there are better upside candidates that will be drafted later. I would not take Haener.
golfpacker1
April 01, 2023 at 10:00 am
Tune is the QB I have zeroed in on as best one for us to pick but I think he will be gone sooner than 5th. He has the talent to be a starting NFL QB. A more likely available choice for later rounds and a very intriguing developmental QB option is Tyson Bagent-Shepard College. Small school talented QB who was at the combine and didn't look out of place at all. He makes all the required throws, has good size, and had crazy stats. Threw for almost 17000 yards with 159 TD passes and 70% completion percentage. 6th or 7th rounder.
I also like Stetson Bennett-Georgia. What a great college career. I believe he was a walk-on that was always the best offensive player on the field. Always played great in the SEC and is a big game star. But I think he is like 25 years old and small. UDFA?
Another potential UDFA QB we should bring in is Adrian Martinez-Nebraska. He was a top ten QB out of high school, dual threat and had offers from everyone including Alabama & Georgia. He chose poorly by going to the shitshow Nebraska. He actually regressed at Nebraska because of piss poor coaching but he looked really good at times and showed his potential. He got tired of losing, transferred to Kansas State and got hurt. He won't get drafted probably. He always played good against my school, Iowa. He reminds me of Jalen Hurts, just not the same production to show. He would at the least be worth a shot as a camp QB with a lot of untapped potential. He would be similar to Love with, a stronger arm and better runner.
MooPack
March 30, 2023 at 09:36 am
I agree, Jake Haener from Fresno State is a very instinctive and accurate passer. Broke records out there. He is a competitive gamer that would go a lot higher if not for size. I’d take him if available 5th round or later.
KKB
March 30, 2023 at 09:44 am
Kurt Benkert
BirdDogUni
March 30, 2023 at 11:07 am
He was throwing Dimes at the combine. *They brought him in to throw to WR/TEs/RBs this year. I could easily see the Pack bringing him back for Camp.
marpag1
March 30, 2023 at 11:58 am
He also had two flawlessly executed kneel downs during his NFL career.
Next step to greatness: execute a flawless NFL handoff.
BirdDogUni
March 30, 2023 at 12:04 pm
Lol... Point taken.
Coldworld
March 30, 2023 at 02:39 pm
He would be a good option if Etling gets hurt or as a cheap alternate number 3.
packer132
March 30, 2023 at 11:22 am
Benkert signed with the XFL early in the week. (San Antonio)
PackAttack4155
March 30, 2023 at 10:13 am
A draft pick sounds like the best option, especially with Clements coaching QBs. With what cap space can the Packers sign a veteran? Blake Bortles signed a $1 million deal in 2021 to backup/compete with Love during another offseason of drama. Matt Ryan, Teddy Bridgewater, even Joe Flacco will cost a lot more than $1 million. David Blough signed a one-year deal with Arizona worth just over a million, and he's nothing special.
Most of the remaining free agents are players who never played well in the pros when given the chance. Mason Rudolph, Blaine Gabbert, Chase Daniel, Trevor Siemian, Brian Hoyer, Nathan Peterman, John Wolford: who wants any of them filling in when needed, carrying the clipboard, or just providing advice? Attitude and history of ok/decent play is a plus. I was going to suggest Case Keenum, but I see he signed with Houston again. He had a good year in Minnesota, and seemed to really enjoy his time as a backup in Buffalo. $6.25 million, four million guaranteed, over two years. Could the Packers afford a deal like that? If yes, are there any remaining free agents anyone thinks is worth a similar deal? Before anyone says Matt Ryan, do you really think he'd sign that deal?
Enough with the Danny Etling nonsense. Its fun to cheer for guys like him in camp, but you don't want them playing in the regular season. Tim Boyle proved that.
TKWorldWide
March 30, 2023 at 01:54 pm
Oooh….I sense a Boyle vs Etling beef brewing.
Swisch
March 30, 2023 at 10:20 am
A concern I have is with Jordan Love needing a new contract in a couple of seasons.
He may be good enough in his first season or two to ask for a lot of money, but not good enough for us to know if he's really the quarterback of the future to invest in with a lot of money.
In other words, we won't have all that many games to evaluate Love before we may have to make a big decision about whether to pay him a multi-year contract totaling $100-$200 million.
***
I suppose it's not worth being overly concerned about at this point, except that the Packers may want to look for the next Brock Purdy late in this draft.
Next year, we can draft a quarterback early in the draft if it looks like Love is not the guy, or if he does look like the guy but may not want to stay with the Packers.
Love has been a class act of patience during the Rodgers Melodrama, but it's hard to know how he feels about how the Packers have been treating him all along.
My hunch is that Love is going to be really good as an NFL quarterback, possibly in the top ten.
I hope he's our guy at QB for a decade or more, but there are a lot of unknowns at this point.
Packerpasty
March 30, 2023 at 10:32 am
if he doesn't look good enough in the first season or two then I think they will know...the second season as a starter should be enough..if he doesn't shine by then forget it...I say half way through the first season the clues should be there...
Swisch
March 30, 2023 at 11:00 am
It's difficult to evaluate these young quarterbacks with their ups and downs.
Jalen Hurts took a big step forward last season, while Kyler Murray seemed to go backward at least a little. How will each of them do going forward?
I don't want to rush to proclaim Jordan Love a boom or a bust, but the issue of whether to extend his contract is not all that far off.
Even if Love does quite well for the Packers this season, there'll still be questions about the extent of his potential.
Plus, we don't know how enthusiastic Love is to stay on as a Packer, and what his asking price is going to be for a second contract. Is he going to want $40 million or more per year; and will he be considered to be worth that much?
We're going to have to make a decision comparable to the one regarding Lamar Jackson, without having as many seasons to evaluate Love.
While not wanting to fret about this, it seems prudent for the Packers to start thinking about a Plan B, even while we hope for the success of Plan A.
MainePackFan
March 30, 2023 at 10:24 am
I don't see a vet that the Pack can afford at this point, but we will see when the dust settles. I think the Packers draft at least one QB late.
The more I see of Max Duggan, games, interviews etc., the more I like. He is a gamer with the physical traits you like to see, and seems to be a high character guy. I think he would be a perfect fit as a developmental QB for the Packers. He's the kind late round pick that would be worth a shot. For some reason, in my mind he screams Green Bay Packer. Love this kid. Draft him Gute!!!
MainePackFan
March 30, 2023 at 10:43 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQmjfM2uXM4
Coldworld
March 30, 2023 at 02:45 pm
I mentioned him earlier. He’s got some technical issues that need to be resolved, but for development as opposed to this year, he’s one of a few late/UDFA candidates Clements could potentially unlock.
MainePackFan
March 30, 2023 at 03:19 pm
I saw that you had mentioned him. Did you check out the link with the interview? I was really impressed with the kid's character. There is another interview of him after losing to Kansas St. in I think the Conference Championship. You can tell he really cares.
Coldworld
March 30, 2023 at 03:43 pm
I agree he is a footballer
Packerpasty
March 30, 2023 at 10:29 am
bottlefliper, new leader of the "I hate AR so bad that it clouds my mind" cult...
PackerLee
March 30, 2023 at 10:39 am
I agree with KKB
Kurt Benkurt looked serviceable when he played in the preseason. He is familiar with the offense, and speaks positively about the organization. However,
I would still draft a QB to develop.
LambeauPlain
March 30, 2023 at 10:42 am
I will be surprised if Gutey does not draft a QB on day 3.
Expect a prospect on his board will drop and better to add talent to the QB room via draft than UDFA class.
You never know. The GOAT was a 6th rounder and Starr was a 17th rd!
stockholder
March 30, 2023 at 11:07 am
Good Point. 7 th rd. SF drafted Purdy.
I'd follow their lead.
Anything less; means Gutey has doubts.
jannesbjornson
March 30, 2023 at 01:34 pm
They need to move into the sixth round with a trade or swap picks. The Value round for backup QB. I still like Max Duggan.
golfpacker1
April 01, 2023 at 10:14 am
Purdy was overlooked. He was rated much higher on some draft sites after a stellar career @ Iowa State. He had 4 really good consistent years there. I hate the Cyclones but he was very good for them. Holds every QB and offensive record there. The Clones don't get much love in the draft. I thought Purdy would go in the 4th. The NFL also missed the boat on Alan Lazard. He had 241 catches for 3400 yards @ Ia State. How in the world does he go undrafted?
Xavier Hutchinson is their next in line NFL guy and Green Bay could get a steal in 4th round? He also had 3000 yards of catches in college and doesn't drop anything. He reminds me a lot of Devonte when he came to us.
golfpacker1
March 30, 2023 at 11:38 am
Coldworld I am glad you mentioned Demorant as a late round development project QB. A very talented small school QB. Would have been helpful to see him at the combine. The other small school QB who if I was drafting a QB late is Tyson Bagent-Shepard College. He was at the combine and tested and looked very good. Had video game stats of 17,000 career yrds passing, 159 TDs passing and over 70% completions. If he was still there in 7th I would take him on potential alone. Max Duggan would be an option, but I think Jerry Jones loves him and he will be gone sooner. The college QB I like and still might be around in 5th round is Clayton Tune-Houston.
I will throw out former Steelers starting QB Mason Rudolph. Pittsburgh is not resigning him. he will be cheap, and he has started 17 NFL games. He didn't do much for the Steelers but had a very good career at Oklahoma State and was a 3rd round pick. Probably a minimum salary guy and has experience playing. I thought he would be perfect for Pittsburgh because he seemed like a Big Ben clone. Passed for almost 5000 yrds senior year with 37 TDs @ 65%. He would work.
Coldworld
March 30, 2023 at 02:52 pm
I haven’t looked into Bagent. I will.
I want a developmental QB with upside not a journeyman rental for reasons stated. I’d rather go in with Etling backing up than some negligibly better never been. That could change if the right guy pops free, but only if they are the type to mentor. No savior is likely available and affordable.
Rudolph presumably wants a chance to compete. Whether he sees us as that is debatable. I never say never, but at the moment I’m ok with Etling and a high relative upside project this year.
splitpea1
March 30, 2023 at 11:41 am
I am generally opposed to bringing in any veteran QBs unless they are younger and cheap. Love doesn't need any mentors. We need to develop a competent backup via the draft regardless.
So in my highly unsophisticated opinion, we should be looking for a guy who is intelligent and composed, experienced, comes from a winning program, and can make the standard throws between the numbers; great athleticism and arm strength should be considered bonuses. Maybe somebody like Clayton Tune would work, IDK.
TKWorldWide
March 30, 2023 at 02:01 pm
“Highly unsophisticated opinion”; that is GOLD!
Another well cut jib here on CHTV!
golfpacker1
March 30, 2023 at 11:42 am
Carson Wentz = bad teammate @ Philly. And anything more than minimum we can't afford. Nope.
Leatherhead
March 30, 2023 at 01:13 pm
Wentz kind of seems like maybe he's a hard guy to have on a team.
golfpacker1
March 30, 2023 at 12:01 pm
UDFA possibility-Adrian Martinez was decent at Nebraska and hurt at Kansas State so he won't be drafted. He reminds me a lot of Love.
Really strong arm, better runner than Love, throws good on run. He played on bad Cornhusker teams and regressed with terrible coaching. He has alot of upside. Prototype of modern QB who can throw and run. Jalen Hurts lite. Look up his highlights. He was the 8th best QB coming out of high school. Scholarship offers from everyone including Alabama and Georgia. He would be project with upside.
BirdDogUni
March 30, 2023 at 12:42 pm
*He threw some dimes to Austin Allen too. They'd already know each other and have that rapport. Might be the perfect guy to bring in to develop.
Vachio
March 30, 2023 at 12:21 pm
I wouldn't mind seeing Hoyer or Chase Daniel as a backup. They should come cheap, they've both got lots of experience and would both be serviceable if Love went out with an injury.
stockholder
March 30, 2023 at 12:22 pm
I'm prepared; to give the Falcons a #1 pick for a Qb again.
BirdDogUni
March 30, 2023 at 12:46 pm
You are exhausting.
Will you be happy if Jordan Love lights it up this season, or will you be pissed you were wrong?
Will you be happy if Love bombs, so you can say you were right?
Are you a Packer fan or just someone who hates everything and everybody?
stockholder
March 30, 2023 at 01:50 pm
Your question isn't logical.
jurp
March 30, 2023 at 04:41 pm
Yes, all three of them are logical. I opt for number 3 for you, ICYC (your answer is obviously "Yes" to that question).
TKWorldWide
March 30, 2023 at 02:02 pm
Give them yours, just don’t give them Green Bay’s.
jannesbjornson
March 30, 2023 at 02:09 pm
Whooaa Nelly...
StarrtoRodgers
March 30, 2023 at 04:14 pm
3 questions:
Jets GM Joe Douglas drafted Zach Wilson 2nd overall in the 2021 draft & watched the Jets trade for & draft QB Sam Darnold 3rd overall in 2018. Douglas then traded Sam Darnold, & benched Wilson, after Douglas had given up on the two 23 year olds after 38 starts for Darnold and 22 for Wilson.
The Jets were originally so high on Darnold that they traded 4 high picks to get Darnold - their 6th overall pick in 2018, 2018 37th overall pick, 2018 49th overall pick and their 2019 2nd round pick (which would be 34th overall).
1) Given that the Packers think so highly of Jordan Love that they are willing to give way the QB that won the passer rating title over 31 other starting QBs 2 of the last 3 years and is a 4 time MVP, wouldn't the Jets think the same & drop the idea of Aaron as their QB in an instant & jump at a Packer offer of young 24 yr old Jordan Love?
2) With Jordan so highly thought of, would the Jets give the Packers a Russell Wilson like package in return?:
3. Russell Wilson was traded for 7 players - the 9th (2022), 5th (2023), 40th (2022), 37th (2023) picks in the NFL Draft - all unconditional draft picks - & a young solid starting tight end (Noah Fant, the 20th pick in the 2019 draft) & a starting defensive end (Shelby Harris) & quarterback Drew Lock (2nd round 42nd overall pick in the 2019 draft - 6 players who will be Seattle starters and 2 of which (5th and 9th pick) will probably be all pros and a backup or possible starting QB in young Lock.
If no, why not?
jurp
March 30, 2023 at 04:42 pm
Why not? Because Rodgers' ginormous contract hit for 2024 makes it a truly insane idea to keep him and trade Love. It would also leave us with a rookie or second-year starting QB in 2025, after Rodgers retires.
StarrtoRodgers
March 30, 2023 at 08:13 pm
Rodgers' - passer rating champ & MVP 2 of the last 3 years - cap hit if he plays for the Packers is $31.6 in 2023 and $40.6 in 2024 - reasonable relative to any star QB. For 2023 the cap hits for other QBs are Mahomes is 39.6., Tannehill 36.6, Jackson 32.4, Goff 30.9 etc. - The Giants w Daniel Jones, with 36 more starts than Jordan Love, did not exercise their 5th yr option on Jones but did just sign Jones to a $160 M 4 yr contract with $80 dead cap/guaranteed $.
The Packers currently have $22.8 M in cap space (1st 51 players, $13.7 M counting all players) and the Jets currently have less than half that much cap space with $9.8 (1st 51 players, $1.3 M counting all players.
Next year the dead cap of $16.9 M for such void year hits for players as Amos, Lowry, Reed (who should have been extended & resigned) Tonyan (who should have been extended & resigned), Cobb (who should have been resigned & extended), Lewis (who should have been resigned & extended) and others will be gone and the current $224.8 M salary cap will increase as it usually does by about 10% of $25 M - that alone will provide the Packers with about $42 M in Cap space for 2024 to deal with Aaron's $9 M cap hit increase, should Aaron not renegotiate his $47 M option payment for 2024.
Please see my 3 numbered Q's below.
StarrtoRodgers
March 30, 2023 at 08:15 pm
Jets GM Joe Douglas drafted Zach Wilson 2nd overall in the 2021 draft & watched the Jets trade for & draft QB Sam Darnold 3rd overall in 2018. Douglas then traded Sam Darnold, & benched Wilson, after Douglas had given up on the two 23 year olds after 38 starts for Darnold and 22 for Wilson.
The Jets were originally so high on Darnold that they traded 4 high picks to get Darnold - their 6th overall pick in 2018, 2018 37th overall pick, 2018 49th overall pick and their 2019 2nd round pick (which would be 34th overall).
1) Given that the Packers think so highly of Jordan Love that they are willing to give way the QB that won the passer rating title over 31 other starting QBs 2 of the last 3 years and is a 4 time MVP, wouldn't the Jets think the same & drop the idea of Aaron as their QB in an instant & jump at a Packer offer of young 24 yr old Jordan Love?
2) With Jordan so highly thought of, would the Jets give the Packers a Russell Wilson like package in return?:
3. Russell Wilson was traded for 7 players - the 9th (2022), 5th (2023), 40th (2022), 37th (2023) picks in the NFL Draft - all unconditional draft picks - & a young solid starting tight end (Noah Fant, the 20th pick in the 2019 draft) & a starting defensive end (Shelby Harris) & quarterback Drew Lock (2nd round 42nd overall pick in the 2019 draft - 6 players who will be Seattle starters and 2 of which (5th and 9th pick) will probably be all pros and a backup or possible starting QB in young Lock.
If no, why not?
lou
March 30, 2023 at 04:51 pm
The easy choice would have been Marcus Mariotta who worked well with MLF in the past but he has been signed. The cheapest and quickest choice to be able to get you through some games if Love goes down is Boyle who had 2 years with MLF in Green Bay. It will be interesting who that guy will be.
Oppy
March 30, 2023 at 05:55 pm
Literally half of Packers fans believe that Love is garbage, and that same half also believe the only reason this 2022 squad won 8 games is solely because Aaron Rodgers willed it to be.
They literally think Rodgers is the only reason this team wins games.
What fascinates me is that this same 50% of Packers fans are going to bitch and moan about what the Packers do or don't do in terms of a veteran back up QB. I mean, if the only reason the Packers could eek out 8 games in 2022 was due to the other-wordly, god-like presence of #12, that would surely mean that this 2023 team couldn't hope to win even 4 games total with some journeyman cast-off QB at the helm, wouldn't it?
If Love is garbage and only a 4 time MVP, first ballot HoF'r could have led this woeful team to 8 wins, there's literally no back up QB in the league that could save a season should Love go out with injury or just plain get benched in 2023, so why worry about it?
As for me? Look for someone with some experience under the Shannahan offense, or, go ahead and draft a QB to develop. I don't really care, 11-6 either way. Go Pack.
greengold
March 30, 2023 at 06:21 pm
Tears. I’m so proud of you, Oppy.
LambeauPlain
March 30, 2023 at 06:09 pm
I like Duggan too. Tough and hard nosed and finds ways to win. Makes plays with his legs and is an OK passer but lacks a cannon arm...decent arm and accurate. 6' 1 - 6.2...but 210 lbs and runs a 4.5.
EnemyTerritory
March 30, 2023 at 08:06 pm
Cheap backup. This team is going 7-10 or 6-11. Save the cap space. Look to 2024 with a veteran or a new round 1 QB
golfpacker1
March 30, 2023 at 08:47 pm
Hey Starr, nobody is questioning Rodgers talent or past performances. He has been a great player, one of the best of all time. The Packers and most Packers fans are just sick and tired of his bullsh$t every year. You can't have 1 player who disrupts the team constantly with his me me me mentality. If you let him come back this year, guaranteed he pulls the same" I am going to hold the Packers organization hostage, so all the attention is on me crap. He has worn out his welcome and that really takes some effort when you are as good as he is. I hope he plays well for the Jets and I will cheer for them if they get to the playoffs next year. He is still very good but the Packers will be better off without him going forward. They will have better chemistry because nobody will think they are more important than the Team.
StarrtoRodgers
March 30, 2023 at 08:58 pm
Golfpacker, what drama?
Only the Church Ladies follow the gossip and rumors and management and 31 NFL Owners and their wage slave talking head propaganda as such nonsense drives clicks and television revenues.
I understand the 31 Billionaire NFL Owners share television revenue equally & the New York TV market is the wealthiest & currently underperforming, Aaron Rodgers in NY on the Jets drives more interest in the Jets & Giants and maximizes collective NFL revenue, but what benefit is this trade for the Packers team performance?
The players are all behind & supporting Rodgers and always have been. - veterans and rookies alike:
Christian Watson Speaks Out on Aaron Rodgers and Jordan Love
If you love sports, chances are you love speculation. Who’s signing where? Who’s getting traded? Who’s my team going to draft? It can all be a ton of fun. But speculation has an ugly side and we’ve seen it these last few years with Aaron Rodgers. From rumors of trade requests and attempting to get a general manager fired to anger with draft picks and poor relationships with young players, speculation about what goes on in the Green Bay Packers locker room has been wild. That’s why it’s so nice when someone who actually lives it can go on the record and speak to the reality of the situation.
Today on the Rich Eisen Show Green Bay stand out Christian Watson did just that. Appearing on one of football’s most popular programs, in the middle of the Rodgers trade drama, Watson brought transparency to several topics.
First on Rodgers and the relationship the two shared. Eisen asked about their first meeting and although the narrative has been painted of Rodgers as the grizzly senior bully ready to ignore and demean incoming freshman, Watson painted a fun picture more in line with Rodgers’ carefree personality.
“I think the first time I saw him he had come through it was right before the mandatory mini camps he came in and he just walked by me and said (jovially) ‘what’s good North Dakota State?’” Continuing on, Watson brushed aside the idea that there was any negativity and credits Rodgers’ openness and confidence as factors in his development and strong second half of the season.“I couldn’t be more thankful for the opportunity to play with him my rookie season and be able to pick his brain. My number one goal going into last year was just to pick the veterans mind as much as possible. You never know when those guys are going to be done or when they’re gonna be gone so I just tried to learn as much as possible from him…Whenever I had a question whenever I had something in my mind even if it seemed like a dumb question he was always open to answering that for me and giving me his mindset on that. I think he helped me develop a lot. I think he helped me gain that confidence that I gained later in the year with his confidence in me.”
And that openness hasn’t stopped. When pressed about the last time he spoke to 12, Watson gave a surprising answer. “Probably a week or two ago just kind of talking to him about off-season stuff.” Watson said. “What can I do to get better and what did you see for me last year that I need to do to improve and stuff like that.”
That’s right, despite the idea that Rodgers is holed up somewhere waiting for a trade away from a place he grew to resent, the truth is he’s out here communicating with people in Green Bay and even helping them out.
Dagger
March 30, 2023 at 09:04 pm
Veteran QB backup is needed and also glad that Tom Clements is still their QB coach. Any chance we could afford Carson Wentz as a backup? That is worth pursuing. Yet the minute I write this I know it won't happen. It may be someone like Mason Rudolph.
golfpacker1
March 31, 2023 at 09:01 am
Starr why don't you wait until after the trade is finalized and Rodgers is officially a Jet. You might just hear some different opinions coming from Packers players then. Frankly I don't care about players opinions, I want the team to be successful. Watson is saying what he has to say as long as there is a 5% chance of Rodgers remaining a Packer. Would any current Packer, especially a WR that depends on Rodgers to make him look successful and get paid, want Aaron holding a grudge against them.
Judging by your post you sound like an intelligent person, I'm surprised you are confusing undying loyalty to Rodgers with fear of Rodgers coming back. I would bet that Packers players have been asked to not say anything negative about Rodgers until this is a done deal. Unless you are a close, personal friend of Rodgers I doubt that you have any idea what he is really like or thinking. The impression he gives publicly is that he is better than everyone, and doesn't care about anyone but him. I and the majority of Packers fans don't hate Aaron Rodgers, we will be relieved to be done with the daily drama he brings every day. The Green Bay Packers are a team of 53 players, not 52 players and a king.
Matt
March 31, 2023 at 03:55 pm
That was a great spot for Blake Bortles. Too bad this scenario is no longer actual.
golfpacker1
April 01, 2023 at 10:31 am
I think I would go after Mason Rudolph. He is still young, healthy. has a good arm, would be cheap and he is available. It wasn't that long ago he threw for a lot of yards and TDs at Oklahoma State. and he has started 17 NFL games so he has experience on the big stage. He might want to be coached by Clements and think that could help him play again. Mason will be one of those Chad Heine backup guys that hangs around forever and makes $50 million for his career. Not a bad life. If he would sign for the minimum, he would be a great option.
ko40489
April 02, 2023 at 04:57 pm
Look what SF got with Mr. Irrelevant. Gutey, do your homework and find a raw talent. Try not to talk yourself into thinking Seneca Wallace can still play.