The Lass Word: Packers Come Up Golden in Red Zone
Seven points is better than three. What a concept.
By KenLass
There were several things to be encouraged about after the Packers’ first preseason game, but here is the stat that brings the biggest smile to my face: Four trips to the red zone...four touchdowns.
Of all the factors that killed Green Bay last season, the one that hurt the most was the team’s inability to score touchdowns from inside the opponent’s twenty yard line. The Packers ranked 23rd in red zone touchdown percentage. It was particularly painful in the season finale against the Lions, when Green Bay had to settle for field goals twice in the first half. It would eventually cost them a trip to the playoffs.
Which is why it was very exciting to see the team cross the goal line with each red zone opportunity Friday night. Of course, the naysayers will quickly point out it was done against a bunch of second and third team defensive players. And three of the four conversions were by Green Bay’s reserves. But that doesn’t dampen my enthusiasm. I was looking for a culture of execution inside the twenty. Last season the Packers would move the ball skillfully down the field, but once inside the red zone the execution largely disappeared. There would be penalties, missed blocks, badly thrown passes, easy catches dropped, you name it. Somehow, the coaches just couldn’t get this team to maintain its poise when the goal line was at hand.
Flash forward to preseason game number one against the Bengals. First quarter, first and ten from the twenty yard line. Jordan Love floats to his left and sidearms a pretty pass to Romeo Doubs for twelve yards. Two plays later, second and goal from the eight, Love correctly reads the safety, waiting for him to commit to covering Christian Watson, and then loops a rainbow to Doubs in the end zone. Execution. It wasn’t against the Cincinnati starters, but at least the Packers first team offense proved to themselves they could do it. That was important.
Second quarter. Jayden Reed, who is going to be a problem for opposing defenses this year, draws a pass interference penalty in the end zone. Ball at the one. First down. The right side of the O-line blows a hole through the defensive front, and Ty Goodson rumbles through it for an easy score. Execution.
Under one minute to play in the half. Second down at the nineteen. Sean Clifford rolls left, finds nobody open, and runs the ball to the five. First and goal, Clifford throws an accurate dart over the middle to tight end Tyler Davis, who has found the small gap between the linebackers. Touchdown. Execution.
Third quarter, first down at the eleven. Handoff to Emanuel Wilson. Guard Sean Rhyan pulls left and pushes the first defender out of the play. Fullback Henry Pearson leads through the hole and clears out the lane. Wilson explodes through for an easy touchdown. Again, perfect execution.
Can the Packers sustain this kind of performance against starting quality opposition? Well, at least there seems to be a renewed focus and emphasis on getting your job done all the way across the goal line. I find this to be very promising.
Other thoughts about the game:
-- Apparently like many others, I found the way Sean Clifford played the game reminiscent of the Brett Favre days. Certainly not in terms of talent, but in the way he would fearlessly try to fit the ball into tight windows. Yes, you’re going to get picked off doing that. You’re also going to get some big plays, as in the 25 yard completion and run to Samori Toure, and the 47 yard gain to Dontayvion Wicks. Both balls thrown over the middle into the kind of narrow window many signal callers would turn down. Favre loved to do that. People forget that Favre remains the all time league leader in interceptions with 336. It didn’t stop him from entering the Hall of Fame.
-- Get Luke Musgrave on your fantasy team. With Tyler Davis now out for the year, and Josiah Deguara banged up, Musgrave is going to see a lot of snaps, and it was clear from the first series the Packers are determined to get the ball to him.
-- Do you think Eric Stokes is getting a little nervous when he watches how well seventh round pick Carrington Valentine is playing?
-- Before Friday night’s game, Emanuel Wilson had zero chance to make this team. The number three running back slot was strictly a battle between Patrick Taylor, Ty Goodson, and Lew Nichols. Wilson hasn’t played his way on to the regular season roster just yet, but he is now on the radar. Other teams are watching, and Wilson could make himself very difficult to cut.
-- Shortly after the draft, I predicted receiver Dontayvion Wicks would be the surprise breakout player of this draft class. I believe it more now than ever. I’m telling you, this kid’s going to be a really good player. I just hope he gets to show it here.
-- I’m sick of people saying it’s too early to judge kicker Anders Carlson. He is exactly what he was in college. He’s not consistent enough. Missing two extra points in a row is ridiculous and will cost you games. The Packers are dreaming if they think he is suddenly going to change and become Mr. Reliable. Bring in competition now.
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Ken Lass is a former Green Bay television sports anchor and 43 year media veteran, a lifelong Packers fan, and a shareholder.
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Comments (76)
GregC
August 14, 2023 at 06:36 am
The red zone execution was nice, but yes, it WAS against backups. I guess I'm a naysayer on this issue. And I don't think it's a "culture" thing. It's about having talented players and running the plays properly. At least it's a promising start. I'm just not going to read much into it at this point.
Even if Carrington Valentine was a first round pick, his performance in training camp would be impressive. The question now is, what should they do with him? If he keeps playing like this, it would be a waste to have him just playing in the dime defense. Is it too late to move Rasul Douglas to safety? Like most people, I thought it would've been foolish for the Packers to draft a CB in the first round (as some mocks had them doing), and this situation shows why.
Yes, Dontayvion Wicks looked great!
I haven't given up on Anders Carlson yet, although I've thought all along that he should've had to compete for the job. He's got a few more weeks to straighten things out.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 14, 2023 at 07:11 am
Of the 9 UDFA kickers, Szmyt is the one I looked at before the draft. His range seemed good enough and his consistent accuracy was pretty good. I don't know if anybody else is better but apparently he just became available last week.
If there's a proven veteran who'd play for the league minimum that'd probably be better.
MooPack
August 14, 2023 at 09:49 am
I also haven’t given up on Carlson yet. Moody, the first kicker taken, missed two in last game. Rookie kickers require a bit of faith. Can’t remember any that came in and took the league by storm. Don’t feel like looking up any either. Sorry, lazy Monday. However, I am surprised that there is no competition. Does Bisaccia think that would bring too much added pressure??! I don’t get it.
GregC
August 14, 2023 at 10:16 am
It's probably because they want Carlson to get all of the reps in practice instead of having to split them. But I think he may actually be feeling MORE pressure this way, knowing that the Green Bay Packers have put all of their hopes on him. Mentally, it's like when a team drafts a QB and immediately plugs him in as the starter. That doesn't happen very often, and when it does, it usually does not go well. It's a ton of pressure for a rookie.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
August 14, 2023 at 03:22 pm
Daxton Hill was out there and hes definitely a starter.
greengold
August 14, 2023 at 04:11 pm
TBSH, he made that beautiful play on the bomb to Watson early in the game by Love to knock the ball away at the last second. Great play. Dax Hill.
I remember you calling for him on draft day last year.
greengold
August 14, 2023 at 06:40 am
“Four trips to the red zone...four touchdowns.”
HUGE!
As for Goodson’s run for the TD, the hole he ran through was created on very solid blocks by both Musgrave and Wicks. TGR called it out in real time. I thought same as you, Ken. In reviewing the recording, I was like “DAY-UMMMM! TGR’s got a good eye!”
Musgrave & Wicks are indeed all of that. Don’t sleep on DuBose.
Carlson made 3PATs plus a 45 yd. FG. Bisaccia has been working with Anders on technique. Modifying and adjusting. His percentages have increased every week.
I’m not going to worry. 2missed PATs? He’s had 2 different holders. I think he kicks better with Whelan holding. We’ll find out on Saturday vs. NE. Maybe a technique issue. Bisaccia’s got this. Crosby is just a phone call away.
Do you want to boot a Carlson like the Queens? Only to have him turn All-Pro the very next season?
Patience.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 14, 2023 at 07:15 am
I love that our O line and WRs are blocking for successful runs, but using a HB for this role? :) I'm hoping Pearson does a lot of this!
NickPerry
August 14, 2023 at 07:19 am
"I’m not going to worry. 2missed PATs? He’s had 2 different holders. I think he kicks better with Whelan holding. Maybe a technique issue. Bisaccia’s got this. Crosby is just a phone call away."
Bisaccia's got this?
Well that may very well be case but does Carlson "Got This"? I'll tell you this, I have my doubts. In a league where so many teams are SO CLOSE and wins and losses come down to maybe one or two plays a game. It would be a God Damn SHAME to watch ole #17 shank a 33 yard FG attempt with 1 second left week one to LOSE the game in Chicago.
I'll bet MLF thought "I Got This" in the 2021 playoff loss to the 49ers too... With the new PS rules they can keep him and HOPE he turns into his brother...
greengold
August 14, 2023 at 07:32 am
Bisaccia is a god around here until his new, hand picked Kicker has to go through his development with all eyes on him. He did go through ACL surgery in November of 2021. This is part of his process in improving to an NFL level of Kicking standards.
***What are Carlson’s percentages the last 3 weeks or so "since making an adjustment?" 15 of 18 on FGs according to PackersNews figures. That's 83%. As a Junior at Auburn, prior to his ACL injury, Carlson was 20 of 22 for 90.9%.
How many PATs did Mason Crosby miss the last 3 years? 8. As a Rookie, Crosby ranked #26 in the NFL with 79.5%.
Yeah, there’s going to be technique adjustments. Tweaks in form. First preseason game. 4 makes. 2 misses. 2 holders.
The second holder, Whelan, gets his turn with Carlson this week. Said it weeks ago. I’m not getting worried about Anders Carlson until Bisaccia does.
The least of my concerns with Crosby waiting & ready.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 14, 2023 at 10:32 am
I'd be very surprised if Crosby got the call. Even if
the difference is"only" a million or few, the cap has to be awfully tight with the recent roster changes. I'm thinking they're forced to take a cheaper option, and will after cutdowns if not before. Even if #17 is the starter.
LambeauPlain
August 14, 2023 at 08:00 am
Carlson NEEDS competition in camp. He needs more pressure now, before the games count to see if he can handle it.
He is auditioning for a job description that starts with "make consistent kicks in pressure situations".
I know Rich has an emotional attachment to young man and his family...but he's got to shelve that. His two consecutive missed PATs were like carbon copy whiffs...both the the exact same zip code far to right of the hash.
If I were Gutey, I'd be having tryouts or even bring in Mason.
TKWorldWide
August 14, 2023 at 09:39 am
It would be awesome if Carlson was lights out, but he hasn’t been. So far.
A horrible kicker will cost ANY team some W’s. No question about it. But I’ve always thought there are so many good kickers available that ending up with a crappy one is nearly impossible.
Trust RB to decide if Carlson is improving, worth saving, or if it’s time to cut bait.
Would you rather have a strong leg work to improve accuracy, or an accurate kicker with an average to below average leg?
Glad I don’t make my $ on stuff like this!
SicSemperTyrannis
August 14, 2023 at 10:59 am
I can't imagine releasing #17. I very much can envision bringing in a kicker without such a strong leg but a lot more accurate, and 9 UDFAs sit from just this current draft. Whether they pick one now or wait til cutdowns I'm thinking they were never planning on going all year without at least a backup on the PS.
Also if they look for another TE, Jesse James is on the Saints roster at #5 right behind Taysom Hill, lol. Just in case we want the rootinest tootinest hombre west of the Pecos. Chuck Filiaga is there too, along with Jimmy Graham. DJ Scaife is with the Texans. I'm thinking Gutey might be second guessing himself about those two cuts, and he got rid one other O lineman I lost track of.
NickPerry
August 14, 2023 at 06:50 am
I find it all very promising too Ken...
On Friday I raced home Friday and watched the Packers live on the NFL Channel. Unfortunately it was the Bengals broadcasters who BTW have to be two of the WORST in the business. I read somewhere, maybe here or APC that Larrivee and McCarren had gotten bad (Maybe a Bears Fan) but those two for Cinny are the WORST...Sorry, I got sidetracked...
Andres Carlson... What the hell is going on at 1265 Lombardi. I love Rich Bisaccia, I think he's a hell of a Football Coach. I appreciate his opinion of Carlson who he obviously thinks is as good as his brother and very well might be...SOMEDAY... But this is ridiculous.
This is a YOUNG team all around. It's FILLED with 1st and 2nd year players, several who will be starters or key contributors throughout the 2023 season. They HAVE to bring in competition...NOW! This team is going to be up and down all year I think, but I can't think of a more disheartening way to lose than watching your offense drive down the field for a game winning FG attempt or need the extra point attempt to beat the bears 24-23 and Carlson misses the attempt.
IT IS TIME!!!
cheezyone
August 14, 2023 at 07:42 am
I agree. Competition is needed. At the very least, it will make Carlson work harder.
greengold
August 14, 2023 at 09:00 am
Crosby is at home, training & ready.
Bringing in competition could take away valuable training reps for Carlson. Having a huge leg can offset a PAT miss here and there. Crosby was just 1-4 from 50+ yds last season.
Crosby missed 4 PATs in 2020, 2 in 2021, 2 in 2022.
LLCHESTY
August 14, 2023 at 01:16 pm
"Crosby is at home, training & ready."
You know this how? He could be indulging in his love for beer after mainly abstaining for the last 15 years and is already 20 lbs heavier.
ko40489
August 14, 2023 at 07:02 am
It's good to see that everyone was on the same page on offense. That's a sign of good coaching and commitment by the players to learning the playback. But it was against backup players on defense and it's the preseason where the defensive scheme are pretty basic. The real test will be during the season against first string D playing more complex schemes. There's going to be a big learning curve. Too bad the Packers D still has some lapses. Joe Barry should be gone. His track record is terrible. As is Anders Carlson's. I truly don't understand why the Packers keep thinking that a person's past record isn't predictive of their future. This season is going to be frustrating. Not all good, not all bad, but inconsistent.
GregC
August 14, 2023 at 07:18 am
Carlson had some injuries in college that affected his kicking, so it's not a surprise that it's taking some extra time for him to perfect his kicking motion. That seems to be the theory anyway. I hope the coaches and front office are right about this and that Carlson is able to figure things out in the next few weeks. There was definitely an element of risk in drafting him and in not bringing in another kicker to compete with him.
croatpackfan
August 14, 2023 at 07:22 am
I doubt that Packers offense were playing plays from their 2023 playbook. They were also running basic schemes. Evaluation on how every player play playbook schemes will be running through closed practices.
So basic O vs basic D. There is where you are evaluating players which will earn their spot on the team.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 14, 2023 at 07:29 am
ko,
yup, having a ton of first and second year players means inconsistent play. Maybe not as much at RB but even very sure handed receivers will gain consistency beyond their rookie year. Certainly our 3 "veteran" WRs could be more consistent than they were last year, and we hope to see that. Personally I expect JL10 to be more consistent next season and anybody who expects otherwise just isn't being reasonable IMHO.
Sticking with 1 kicker through an entire season? Without a backup even on the PS? I can't fathom that being the plan, kickers get hurt too. I have to think the plan is to give #17 all the reps possible throughout preseason, and bring somebody else in after cutdowns. The question being what role they're given.
croatpackfan
August 14, 2023 at 07:17 am
Ken, I agree. It looks like there is a lot of positive energy inside Packers locker room. And I believe what AJ Dillon said: "We will go through brick wall for him (Love)!"
Regarding Andres Carlson - I'm interested what is happened with Ramiz Ahmed. He looked pretty consistant through preseason & TC. Does anybody knows?
GregC
August 14, 2023 at 07:21 am
According to Wikipedia, his contract with the Packers expired in January, and he is still a free agent. I thought they would bring him back to compete for the kicking job this year.
croatpackfan
August 14, 2023 at 07:23 am
Thanks, Greg.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 14, 2023 at 07:34 am
Here's the link:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramiz_Ahmed
He doesn't seem like an upgrade in consistency, getting hurt while warming up. USFL distance record at 61 yards though?
stockholder
August 14, 2023 at 07:29 am
"There would be penalties, missed blocks,
badly thrown passes, easy catches dropped,
you name it." Yet we nearly made the playoffs-
Growth- Needs to happen.
And if your second stringers can't progress.
It's time to move on. Especially with this OL.
We've had a lot of camp - WR flashes.
Another position that must show Growth.
I tried to tell everyone we needed to get young @ TE.
Moving on isn't so hard to do now. IS IT-
Gutey will be getting trade offers for Clifford.
It only takes another 200 yard performance.
Carlson - We should go for 2 points anyway.
It's pre-season. And I did say he needed a mentor.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 14, 2023 at 07:37 am
SH,
I really like the 2 point conversion play. Miss it half the time and you've lost nothing. Of course there are some situations where it's a bad idea, but getting really good at them would be worthwhile. IMHO.
Still need a reliable kicker.
greengold
August 14, 2023 at 09:06 am
SST, how long of a FG do you think Carlson can make?
60+ yds sounds easy for him under the right conditions, and with further development. 70?
Coldworld
August 14, 2023 at 09:25 am
There is video of Whelan hitting from 70 in fair weather. I would think Carlson could match that from what I’ve seen. How great a conversion Percentage is open to doubt. Also, 60 in December would be a phenomenal distance.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
August 14, 2023 at 03:20 pm
This begs the question as to why Whelan is punting when he can make 70 yard field goals lol
Coldworld
August 14, 2023 at 03:46 pm
He was originally a (place) kicker in rugby. While anyone on the field can in theory, teams have a player who specializes at all levels (as well as playing in open play). There maybe a number who punt on a team.
As far as I know he’s never kicked in a football game, but if you can kick a rugby ball through the sticks, you should be able to kick a football. It’s lighter and narrower (and cleaner/dryer at pro level) than a rugby ball, but similar enough. How accurate he is, who knows. I think he was kicking off for us in the second half of family night. He could very well be an emergency option if he makes the PS, though dual kicker punters seem disfavored now. Oddly, since in rugby, good kickers are usually excellent punters and often the reverse is true too.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 14, 2023 at 11:19 am
GG, my money's on 150 yards. With what completion % is the question. The great encouragement to me with this rookie is all or nearly all of his misses look like the exact same problem. Not just wide right but there's something in the mechanics of his motion. Whether it's injury related or not, I'm thinking it can be corrected, he just needs the right kicker whisperer working with him. I don't know if a Tom Clements for kickers exists? Maybe Rich Bisaccia really is all that?
I consider physical talent to be the difference between mentally grasping something and turning that into getting your body to do it. If this is injury related, it's not surprising it would be a lingering issue. More talent = fewer reps and you're doing it right. Coaches talk about some players dialing in skills on the first try, which is unfathomable to me. I doubt any kicker is making 50+ yard FGs without serious repetition.
I think Carlson can correct this, and I'd be awfully surprised if NFL pay doesn't motivate him to do his best. The only question is, how long does he take to harness all that power, and what's his upside for accuracy? Even if it takes two or three years for him to reach his ceiling, that still gives us well over a decade of amazing production barring some fluke career ending injury. Personally, I hope they don't turn their back on him even if he gets put on the PS come week 1.
By contrast, Moody's misses are all over the place. That seems like it would be harder to correct.
greengold
August 14, 2023 at 03:31 pm
LOL
For all intents & purposes, I think upstairs, between the ears, Anders Carlson's already a Pro! His brother was the best Kicker in the NFL last season. He knows exactly what he's doing. Bisaccia is drilling him.
My guess is he is having holder issues with O'Donnell. We'll learn more on that this week as he works with Whelan, who helped him get out of that last 0-4 slump about 2 and a half weeks ago. O'Donnell held on those 4 consecutive misses. He then went 1-3 with Whelan holding. Carlson made an adjustment after this practice.
Andres Carlson made 90.9% of his FGs at Auburn in 2020. The guy knows how to kick a football with accuracy.
SINCE MAKING THAT ADJUSTMENT Carlson has made 83.3% of his FGs as best I can tell from the reporting.
TKWorldWide
August 14, 2023 at 09:50 am
In my (make-believe) amateur psychology practice, I try to help my patients recognize that all forms of “I told you so”, whether accurate or not, are poorly received by 99% of the people they are foisted upon. “I tried to tell everyone we needed to get young @TE” is an example of this.
Let’s demonstrate: I tried to tell everyone we needed a suffocating defense, a kicker with 100% accuracy, an offensive line with at least 4 Pro Bowlers, a QB that can throw for 5,000 yards, 50 TDs, and no more that 4 INT’s, running backs that average at least 5.5 ypc, never fumble, and are excellent at pass pro, receivers that are always open, never drop a pass, and routinely take the top off the defense. We need a head coach who always calls exactly the right play, makes perfect halftime adjustments, and whose challenges are always successful.
But nobody is listening.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I think I’m going to puke.
stockholder
August 14, 2023 at 10:10 am
Actually; the word puke is said when playing cards.
But if you lose your Cookies I can see why.
TKWorldWide
August 14, 2023 at 10:20 am
I tried to tell you that you wouldn’t like it. 😉
Welcome to the 99% Club!
You’re just like the rest of us.
PackEyedOptimist
August 14, 2023 at 07:36 am
I'm not worrying about Carlson...yet.
I think Gute doesn't have a second kicker on the squad for these reasons:
1. It is EASY to bring in a kicker at the last minute--they don't need to learn much
2. Adding a kicker means cutting one of the talented young guys at another position
3. As we've already seen, you need to have depth at the other positions--and they DO need to have practice time to learn the offense/defense
4. Carlson has a huge leg and great attitude; if you give him time (and consistent snaps/holds), he may become a GREAT, difference-making kicker for ten years. I'm willing to risk a couple of losses on that possible outcome. Crosby had PLENTY of rough spans.
CheesedDeadHead
August 14, 2023 at 07:54 am
I’ve only watched Family Night and the Cindy exhibition. Anders isn’t struggling with accuracy - most of his well struck balls go through the middle of the uprights. Both missed extra points went wide right to the same location and were dead from the moment he hit them. He’s either accurate with plenty of distance or wide right. That seems an easier fix to me than a kicker who is all over the place because no two balls are hit in the same place. And I agree with your points. I have always believed Gute was going to wait until teams started cutting kickers to pick one up.
LambeauPlain
August 14, 2023 at 08:54 am
The NFL is littered with unemployed kickers with strong legs. I like Carlson and want his strong leg to be described as consistent and strong.
I don't think you can wait until "bares week" to bring in a kicker and perfect the kicking operation. Crosby had recent struggles due as much to LS and holder issues.
Carson needs camp pressure now. See if he can handle it. He's "earned" more competition.
PackfanNY
August 14, 2023 at 08:19 am
I am getting excited about the talent of the receiver room. Besides the obvious Reed, Watson, Doubs, I really thought Wicks and Heath flashed. Especially Heath. I didn’t even know who he was but I was impressed with what he showed. That is without even mentioning Toure. They will need time as they are mostly inexperienced but a lot to hope on here.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 14, 2023 at 11:41 am
I like that you mentioned Reed first :)
I won't be upset if he and Musgrave get the most targets this season, because that would tell me JL10 is going for high probability completions most of the time. I think that's good strategy, and how his first season starting should be handled. In this scenario I'd still expect #9 to get the most yards, and I hope he has a streak of TDs all season long.
My concern at C is weakness there = we don't have a dominant run game. I'd rather see JL10's career start with relying on a dominant run game and a mauling defense. Going for an air raid is a low probability strategy, but we've got 12 WRs. I can pick out TWO that are (probably) worse than the rest. Everybody else shows startling upside. #16 Miller might wind up classified as a TE.
9 WRs for 5-7 roster spots? That's an incredibly good problem to have! 14 receivers were targeted Friday against Cincy.
#80 Bo Melton is basically another #11 Reed, but .03 faster on the 40 and our fastest WR. I'm still pulling for him to make the roster or at least the PS, and he keeps doing good things. #13 Tay Wicks shows some #17 Te Adams. #86 Grant DuBose has his fans and for good reason, even though he's missed most of the off season with an injury. #82 Chrest isn't even Gutey's latest add and QB #17 (Mr Magoo) seems to favor targeting him and he's also made some good plays, maybe great plays.
That's the BOTTOM of the roster?!? (#6 Bonds and 22 Watts are the two easier cuts IMHO, but even they have shown some good stuff) MLF will pull his hair out making final cuts 8/29!
greengold
August 14, 2023 at 03:44 pm
Can see Watson and Doubs pulling a shit ton of coverage away, leaving Musgrave, Reed & Kraft open a lot this year.
Melton? If Emanuel Wilson wins the #3 RB spot, Melton with his 4.32 speed kept as our #6 WR can run EVERY JET concept Matt LaFleur can dream up. He ran out of the backfield at Rutgers, along with a ton of Jets during his time there.
The Packers WRs #1-6 should be getting a ton of action - collectively - throughout this season, and well into the playoffs, in my dreamworld! Dedicated balance of run/pass. No one looking to be the hero and own every target. This team is loaded as a real TEAM. They get it.
BTW, heard the Packers worked out C Jake Lacina - Augustana (It's in Sioux Falls, SD, Div II) 6-4 300 who was a 2020 UDFA released by Minnesota.
https://heavy.com/sports/minnesota-vikings/jake-lacina-miami-dolphins-nf...
T7Steve
August 14, 2023 at 08:20 am
Score TDs every time. Get turnovers and stops on D.
Make extra points and FGs moot.
(Just cranking up my optimism another notch. Only thing I can control.)
LambeauPlain
August 14, 2023 at 08:58 am
There you go...and average 45 minutes in TOP. I'd probably spend a lot of time on the ugly purple boards for entertainment...as heads explode, keyboards shattered.
ko40489
August 14, 2023 at 04:51 pm
And the Packers beat the Jets in the Super Bowl. Let's be realistic.
Swisch
August 14, 2023 at 08:33 am
Again, according to a recent rule changed noted by CHTV last week, we could keep Carlson on the practice squad this season for development, while bringing in Mason Crosby as our proven kicker in the clutch.
In this way we could bring Carlson along slowly for a season (or even two) -- similarly to what we did with Jordan Love.
Apparently, the kicker on the practice squad could be activated during the regular season three times, and then sent back without being claimed by another team. Something like that.
Crosby could mentor Carlson along the way.
That gives us two kickers to work with over this season, so as to be more solid at that key position.
***
A lot of this would depend on what Crosby would feel comfortable doing, which would have a lot to do with the Packers approaching him as the venerable hall-of-famer and all-around great guy that he is.
As far as the salary cap, it's penny wise and pound foolish to skimp on kickers.
After a long grueling battle on the field with all of the dirt and sweat and blood, a kicker oftentimes makes the difference. It's well worth paying for two.
We don't want to be experimenting with game-winning field goals, or even extra points in the first quarter -- especially when, instead of having to let go of Carlson, we could keep and develop him (until he's maybe as good as his acclaimed brother, Daniel, who also got off to a shaky start as a rookie).
Instead of either/or with Carlson or Crosby, it could be win-win with both.
Coldworld
August 14, 2023 at 09:03 am
Crosby may have a season left in that leg. He may not. If he does, it’s probably going to mean going for it or punting at times when Carlson has been comfortably converting. They’re no great solution in the past probably, even if it’s ultimately the one we have to go for for another year.
Kickers don’t compete, they just take snaps from each other. Unless you think Bissacia can’t motivate, I doubt that’s an issue. If there’s a real prospect no other team has signed for camp, that might be different, but I don’t see one out there. Let Carlson see if he can settle.
The Vikings probably would have been better off doing that with his brother, and that was in season. We definitely were wise to retain Crosby after an in season melt down. We laughed at the Bears for letting Gould go. Let this play out. Crosby doesn’t need camp. Anyone else we get will be the second best in the eyes of another team anyway. There’s no guarantee that’s better.
Swisch
August 14, 2023 at 09:12 am
As I remember it, Crosby was very good last season, maybe almost perfect, and hit a field goal of at least 50 yards in the second-to-last game against the Vikings.
He's a consummate pro who seems to always do what's necessary to stay at the top of his game.
It's true his leg may be gone, but then again, it may be quite good for another few seasons. It would seem to be fairly easy to tell for this next season by bringing him in.
Plus, Carlson would be around for backup if the leg does go limp along the way.
Crosby has had at least of couple of slumps during his career, but the vast majority of the time he has been excellent. He not only has the talent, but he has grit.
He seems underappreciated, though, and I'm reluctant to give up on him too early.
Coldworld
August 14, 2023 at 09:21 am
Crosby might be good again. He might not, or he might be limited as to distance. Perhaps Whelan or Carlson could kick off for him if we can spare the roster spot and also provide long kicking options. Who knows, but Crosby will not need camp anyway, he has been on a camp count for several years. One noticeable difference this year has been the longer distances in camp kicking averages. There’s a reason for that.
Swisch
August 14, 2023 at 10:03 am
I don't have the definitive answer, but I present the Crosby/Carlson tandem as a sincere subject for serious consideration and discussion.
With fans getting nervous about Carlson being ready to be a reliable replacement at kicker, I'm thinking maybe we can have the best of both worlds with him and Crosby aboard.
Last week, it seems there was even discussion about whether it's a good idea for a team to have a coach on staff specifically for the kicker.
Crosby could in effect be that guy to develop Carlson until he's a steady replacement in a season or two. When Carlson is ready for job, Crosby could be also be the solid backup.
It's worth reminding ourselves over and over that the kicker is directly responsible for putting points on the board, and so it's not a position with which to go cheap.
Swisch
August 14, 2023 at 10:12 am
P.S. It's good to have other knowledgeable and caring Packers fans here at CHTV to kick around concerns about the team.
***
I would go so far as to say the front office for the Packers would be well advised to check in here once in a while.
While I don't think a front office is wise to make decisions based mainly on what the fans are saying, I do think it's wise for a front office to consider the unique viewpoint of knowledgeable and caring fans.
Sometimes, the average followers from the perspective of being farther away can see things that the experts might miss from always being up close.
The fans can be valuable as consultants.
Swisch
August 14, 2023 at 02:45 pm
It's interesting that at least three fans seem to strongly think that fans don't have anything to offer in assessing the Packers.
I wonder what they think of democracy in general, and the role of we the people in making decisions regarding important matters in our lives.
Should we just passively accept all that the experts tell us to think and to say and to do, or does the average person have something worthwhile to contribute to the workings of our society?
We see that football experts can sometimes make terrible decisions when it comes to the NFL -- on and off the field -- so maybe the fans do have something valuable to offer from our perspective of common sense and common goodness.
One thing is for sure: Without the fans there is no NFL.
If we were to be totally disregarded, perhaps we would even have the integrity and fortitude to move on to other interests.
I sure hope it doesn't come to that, but I sure hope that, if pushed too far, I would have the will to walk away.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 14, 2023 at 11:59 am
Swisch,
I'd be surprised if Crosby weren't millions more expensive than available veterans at league minimum. I think the CBA allows for no haggling below certain price points; if true this would be an example of that working against at least one player.
There are 9 UDFA kickers from this year's draft alone, right now. One of those (Smzydt) I looked at before the draft and he's more consistent. After cutdowns many more options will become available.
I'd be really surprised to see Crosby back. Not even as an issue of cheaping out, but literally not having the cap space. And his declining distance not being worth mortgaging our future for. It was his fifth most accurate season for FGs, but he made 1 out of 4 over 50 yards. He missed two extra points.
I'm thinking there will be a better option, and one that fits within the available salary cap. Not cutting further into next year's is of primary importance IMHO.
Swisch
August 14, 2023 at 12:11 pm
A thumbs up from me for a good and thoughtful response, SST, but I tend to disagree.
After my being here at CHTV for five seasons or so, my sense of things is that I value Crosby more than most other fans at this site.
He's been so extraordinarily good for so long that he's worth going out of our way for, and finding a way as far as salary cap considerations.
My hunch is that for most teams, it's going to be the kicker who is going to lead the team in points scored -- so, again, it's imperative to find a way to make it work as far as getting a really good one, especially one who delivers again and again in the clutch.
***
P.S. If Carlson is not the guy for the future, then any of the 9 UDFA kickers from this year's draft could apprentice under Crosby.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 14, 2023 at 07:53 pm
I too am a big fan of Mason Crosby. He's delivered for us for how many years? And it would certainly be possible to have him specialize in making the layups, while using a big leg for everything else.
Personally, with the rule change on touchbacks I like the idea of using one kicker for everything; kickoffs require little practice now because kicking it through the end zone is just as good as anything else. Same with punts. Somebody who can do that and practice on accuracy for FGs would open up a very valuable roster spot.
Different ways to skin the cat, I make no predictions which will be favored by who ...
LeotisHarris
August 14, 2023 at 08:44 am
Mighty Kwik Trip can try its best to shove their sponsorship down my throat, but it will *always* be the Roehl Red Zone to me!
And, yeah, six is better than three, or a wide left/right; gonna get Anders over that case of the milligrubs.
LambeauPlain
August 14, 2023 at 08:45 am
Who has a good feeling about this evolving team? I do. A defense just loaded with talent. An offense with playmakers and a starting O line that looks solid...could be one of the best in years. And STs that are disciplined and have potential to flip the field on every snap.
The Pack is further ahead after one preseason game than I thought they would be. The only major issues are at K, starting S, and C/G depth.
Gutey and his Personnel Team have supplied MLF with a very talented, albeit a young team. With all team sports, but especially with young teams, coaching is THE KEY to unlocking and stacking success. I can envision an exciting "flywheel" effect for this team.
MLF talks about players needing to be consistent and accountable. The players will also see if his coaches are not being held to the same standard. If he does, the coaches will make that flywheel will spin.
Coldworld
August 14, 2023 at 08:58 am
One of the facets of MLF proving himself is player management: getting the best people out there and defining that based on play not preconceptions or relationship. We are at a point where that is being tested. Does LaFleur have that ruthless streak all truly successful pro coaches must have?
SicSemperTyrannis
August 14, 2023 at 12:07 pm
CW,
your username checks out! This was exactly my #1 concern even before the final game ended last season. MLF has his own approach and I expect it works well in some situations. Player development may be one of them, that much seems to be going well from what I can see. Ruthlessly making final cutdowns is his stated most hated part of the job, and LOTS of guys seem to be making 8/29 harder by playing surprisingly well.
I continue to think coaching is the bigger question than player talent, and that's not limited to DC. Although moving him off the sideline seems positively brilliant to me ...
Bitternotsour
August 14, 2023 at 08:59 am
to some of us "fearlessly try to fit the ball into tight windows" = stupidly try to fit the ball into tight windows.
you see brett favre, i see jeff george.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 14, 2023 at 12:20 pm
Agreed. JL10 is not AR12 and should not be trying to be. I know you're talking about backup QBs but I want to see him sticking to higher probability throws, making the easy layups, and not throwing into crowds.
T7Steve
August 14, 2023 at 01:05 pm
Another thing Love has to learn is to not throw his receivers into harm's way. He seems to be good so far, but when the real games start it's really an adjustment.
Everyone here wants to utilize the middle of the field, for good reason.
With the speed of the NFL, not setting up your receivers to take big hits, or throwing them open, is a development attained only with experience. Very few QBs (if any) have that ability naturally.
A QB sitting and watching for three years in the NFL is a big plus for the receivers' health and longevity.
Bitternotsour
August 14, 2023 at 05:20 pm
One of the things (in hindsight) I appreciate about AR12. He did not get his guys killed over the middle. Many attributed that to his not wanting to affect his stats with INT's, but I do believe he was protecting guys careers.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 14, 2023 at 07:56 pm
On that note, I always thought it strange when people talked about him caring about his personal stats but not the team. Playing well is how you win. Turnovers are how you lose.
TarynsEyes
August 14, 2023 at 09:45 am
The cart is on the field, I'm just not sure where to put the horse, as yet, so it stays in the barn a little longer. There are some players that made the eyebrows raise a little, but a level of consistency is still needed to keep the eyebrow raised for a justified pique buy-in. The vanilla looked good, but I'll hold back the sprinkling of sprinkles, at least until it's shown the vanilla hasn't melted by the next scheduled scooping.
Packers0808
August 14, 2023 at 10:13 am
Know one thing for sure I wouldn't want to be the guy to decide what WR's to keep for sure. Kicker besides Crosby isn't Gould still out there as well if you need a veteran!
splitpea1
August 14, 2023 at 11:15 am
Excellent article! The offense was prepared and ready to roll...an excellent start to the preseason minus the injuries.
Valentine's play was very encouraging, but remember the Bengals were not using their starting WRs, who are on an entirely different level. So I don't think Stokes is worried. Having solid CB depth is always welcome.
I'm with you on bringing in competition for Carlson immediately. Two missed XPs is the roughly the quota for the entire season, not one game. Nothing worse than having to chase points you should have had, which often comes down to the kicker's foot once again.
PhantomII
August 14, 2023 at 11:25 am
Kicking a field goal or punting is the easiest transition from College to the NFL for ANY position. The teams long snapper, holder and protection are the other key factors which can make a decent kicker..look really bad. We can only see so much from where we are at. Lets hope the Coaching staff is good at their job and can rectify the adjustments there or bring in competition as was mentioned. GPG
jeremyjjbrown
August 14, 2023 at 11:51 am
7 points is better than 0 since Carlson is kicking...
SicSemperTyrannis
August 14, 2023 at 12:23 pm
It is rough not having a sure thing from ANY distance ...
Packers0808
August 14, 2023 at 02:47 pm
And how accurate are you? Get out there and be THAT KICKER!
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
August 14, 2023 at 02:54 pm
Playaction, pre-snap motion, screen passes, end arounds, creativity, you name it. The illusion of complexity is back baby.
Edit: they ran a jet motion playaction tight end screen that wouldve been a td if the defender didnt knock it down. This offense is going to give even the best defenses fits.
JQ
August 14, 2023 at 03:29 pm
At Monday practice, per Demovsky:
"Uh oh, Anders Carlson just missed another PAT wide right. Missed two of those Friday at Cincy.
But was good on FGs from 41 & 44."
Bitternotsour
August 14, 2023 at 05:22 pm
calm down over carlson, if all else fails he buys back 3 missed PAT's with a 60+ field goal.
also too, go for two...
nagawicka
August 15, 2023 at 01:33 pm
Don't be throwin' around Brett Favre's name as though Clifford performed at that level. He wasn't gunslinging at all, he was just late.
Clifford preseason reps are not equivalent to Favre stepping on the field when Don Majkowski went down and performing in a real in-game test. Don't be overeager. Don't be overeager to anoint Sean Clifford Teh Second Coming of Jesus Christ Himself. Clifford knows what he's doing and clearly out-performed rookie expectations. Should he be able to a) increase his arm strength to average NFL standards (let's not speak of Favre-level arm-strength) and b) increase his read speed, he'll have an NFL career. Representing Clifford as Favre-like when you've got a real #1 who earned the spot ready to roll is just small and dumb and not football-accurate or reality. Clifford *could* do it IF he's able to take it up a BIG notch in arm strength and read-speed but it's way way premature to claim he HAS proven it out OR that he CAN get that arm where it needs to be. In short, let him prove it like everyone else--and THEN anoint him Dan Marino or Bart Starr. It's AUGUST.