Practice Round-Up. Day 14. August 21, 2018
Did Not Play, Formations, Personnel, GM/Coach-Speak
WR Trevor Davis (hamstring), WR Jake Kumerow (shoulder), RB Devante Mays (hamstring). [House and McCray limited.] Demovsky
WR J'Mon Moore was the first guy working on the JUGS machine before practice and the last guy after practice. Demovsky
Alexander with the first rep in punt return. Huber
Looks like the Packers have settled on the top of their CB depth chart: Kevin King and Tramon Williams in the slot, Jaire Alexander in the slot. Been pretty consistent over the past week. Wood [This isn’t the clearest tweet ever.]
Gutekunst on NFL market at this time of year: "Calls are constant, the movement is not much, right now." Says teams are trying to get through the next game to get a larger sample of what they have. Wood
GM Brian Gutekunst said he "comes from a school [of thought] that a quarterback is pretty important and if you've got guys who can play, you want to keep as many as you can and develop them." Could that both Brett Hundley and DeShone Kizer (or maybe Tim Boyle) stick? Demovsky
Based on comments from Mike McCarthy and Brian Gutekunst today, I'd say both Brett Hundley and DeShone Kizer are going to make the 53-man roster. Kruse
MM on the backup QB job: "I'll just say this: They both are making progress. I'm really pleased with the step that Brett has made since last year. It's really apparent." Mike McCarthy saying “both” as if there isn’t a certain third quarterback also battling for a spot just broke my heart. Herman
Brian Gutekunst says finding offensive linemen is one of the hardest things to do in personnel acquisition. "Finding big people who can run" isn't easy, especially at this time of year. Will be hard for the Packers to upgrade their tackle depth moving forward. Wood
Not sure who is responsible, MM or Philbin, but the Packers are using more WR floods with the RB flaring under for easy gains. Nonetheless, it needs to transition over to the season. Eye in the Sky
Actual Plays - Offense
LeShun Daniels makes a nice adjustment in seam to catch a downfield pass from Rodgers. Hodkiewicz
Kizer throws a beaut of a pass to MVS for a 45-yard touchdown in team move the ball. Hodkiewicz Marquez Valdes-Scantling with another deep reception, this time for a touchdown over Donatello Brown. Looked to be 45 yards. Great throw from DeShone Kizer. Cohen
Marquez Valdes-Scantling with a beautiful leaping grab from Aaron Rodgers on a deep post route. Very impressive catch. Cohen
WR Marquez Valdes-Scantling’s speed is obvious, but his suddenness is also difficult to cover. Stops and starts on a dime. Shook Josh Hawkins on a couple comeback routes. Even beat Tramon Williams on a red-zone slant, but the throw was off. Very impressive athlete. Wood
2-minute drill ends with Ty Montgomery unable to catch a short ball over the middle on 4th down. Rodgers put it high because Montgomery was covered. Silverstein
Demetri Goodson had some good reps in WR vs CBs. Punched out a likely catch. Davante Adams also did Davante Adams things. Hodkiewicz
Nice play by OLB Kendall Donnerson, jumping to bat down DeShone Kizer’s pass
Offensive, Defensive Lines/TE Blocking:
DT Mike Daniels was on a tear in 1 on 1 pass rush with OL. Dominated everyone he faced, including Lane Taylor, who dominated him in this drill last summer. Silverstein
With Patrick taking reps at center, Dillon Day getting reps at LG. Packers moving people around this week. Lucas Patrick, a natural guard, getting some reps at center, just like yesterday. Almost snapped one ball over Aaron Rodgers’ head. Still, a positive for Patrick to show his positional versatility. Wood.
Kyle Olé Murphy is going to get someone killed. This is on the same level as Don Barclay playing tackle. At some point, it has to stop. Kyle Murphy cannot play left tackle. Kyle Murphy cannot play left tackle. Eye in the Sky [Pittsburgh preseason game]
Mike Daniels looked good in his return to one on ones. Took three reps. Lucas Patrick also looks at home at center. Took some competitive reps there against starters. Hodkiewicz [Earlier tweet than Woods’]
Marcedes Lewis drawing a lot of praise from position coach Brian Angelichio for his knowledge of cadences during a blocking drill. He’s sharp off the ball. Cohen
Robert Tonyan keeps making down blocks like this and he’ll be on somebody’s 53. You want your tight ends to be part-time club bouncers too. Eye in the Sky/retweeted by Herman
TE Robert Tonyan credited veteran addition Marcedes Lewis for daily help developing as a blocker. Looks like it's paying off: Kruse
Special Teams:
K Mason Crosby hits 6 of 6 on FGs, hitting from 33, 40, 42, 44, 48 and 50. Silverstein
Crosby hits all six field goals. Bradley had the first snap and they alternated after each. No problems on any of them. Huber
Miscellaneous:
Deshone Kizer really threw this on a rope. A deep comeback far left side of the field. Zero margin for error. This is an Aaron Rodgers caliber throw. Eye in the Sky [from the 2nd preseason game regarding the 82-yard TD pass to Kumerow]
In conclusion, this team can ill afford to have Davon House as its starting cornerback. Eye in the Sky
Dean Lowry played a lot of Nose Tackle and I’m not sure if it’s because Pettine is trying to find a spot for him or he thinks he can actually anchor on the centers. Either way it was disastrous. Eye in the Sky [on preseason game two personnel decision]
Byron Bell is serviceable at Guard. Depth is needed there. Boyle probably won’t last on PS. 50 hasn’t played well. It’s preseason. Chris Odom flashed. He was active and needs further review against better comp. Eye in the Sky
1st series [in Pittsburgh Preseason Game] with Aaron Rodgers pressure came from: [First] Kendricks; [Then] Linsley; [Finally] Linsley/McCray. Not a clean series for an experienced line. Nothing more needs to be said there. End of note. Eye in the Sky
Two things about Reggie Gilbert. He likes to gamble with an inside move at LOLB. If their QB is mobile this move is risky because you give up contain. If Gilbert is at ROLB he faces much more athletic tackles. Subsequently, his production will decrease at ROLB. Gilbert has excellent lateral ability to cross the face of tackles and ruin their pass set. Eye in the Sky
Hopefully, Kentrell Brice is playing hurt. Lloka is an interchangeable Safety that’s better at SS. HHCD could use more “splash plays” but that’s the nature of Free Safety. Fans should be far more concerned with Kentrell Brice. Eye in the Sky
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Comments (52)
JonathanSpader
August 21, 2018 at 10:14 pm
Hope the jugs machine helps Moore and he has a better showing in the next preseason game. The guy is constantly creating separation and his speed could really open up the offense.
Oppy
August 22, 2018 at 01:47 am
I think J'Mon Moore is the slowest of the three rookie WR's.
Double checked, Yeah, he clocked a 4.6 40 yard dash at the combine.
For comparison, Equanimeous St. James ran a 4.48, Marquez Valdez-Scantling ran 4.37.
Jake Kumerow ran 4.52 / 4.56 on his pro day back in 2015.
Turophile
August 22, 2018 at 03:14 am
Oppy. The combine time was slow (he acknowledged), because he screwed up the start point. He ran a 4.48 on his pro day (same as ESB at the combine), so I don't think he is slow........as a comparison, Jordy Nelson (the the same height as Moore) ran a 4.51 in his draft year.
If you are running good routes the low 4.5's are fast enough, if you aren't, it's probably a bit too slow. MVS's 4.37 is just ridiculously fast, for a 6'4" guy.
Going in a different direction, a jugs machine can help the hands, but more useful is catching the ball when you are running fast (I've just noticed GBPDan1 pointing this out, below this post)........
Oppy
August 22, 2018 at 05:33 am
Turophile, I'm not suggesting Jmon's speed is a problem. Only responding to Johnathan's concern that Jmon's speed would be missed. Virtually all of the new WRs in camp have plenty of straight line speed to play the position, and Jmon's speed isn't a defining factor to his game (in comparison.)
That's all.
Koosh
August 23, 2018 at 01:37 pm
His speed is too a defining factor, 40 yard dash is only a tenth of what factors into "speed". Moore is fast in all aspects, he's Adams quick, might have Jordy top speed, great first step, all to go with being quite polished.
MVS is faster sure, but EQSB looks to be playing at Allison's speed.
GBPDAN1
August 22, 2018 at 02:00 am
Do they make a jugs machine that can throw 20-40 yard passes deep so Moore can practice catching the ball in stride down the field? Now that would be beneficial.
I really hope BG signs one of the established veteran safeties that are still available.
Oppy
August 22, 2018 at 05:30 am
Jugs are built so they can be angled and used to simulate deep passes. You can adjust the speeds and on some of the machines you can tweak each wheel independently to create strange spin on the balls, creating unstable passes (lame ducks) and they are often used like that to simulate punts, or kick offs where the ball is tumbling instead of spiraling.
Coldworld
August 22, 2018 at 05:32 am
Reports out of camp suggest Moore has no problem getting behind players and separating. He just needs to catch the ball....
The comments I thought were interesting: Tonyan’s blocking and Odom showing something. If Tonyan can block, perhaps keep him over Ripkowski? As to Odom, i’d like to see a lot of him and Donaldson early on Friday night. Let’s see what they can and can’t do rather than a diet of Fackrell and Beigel.
Andrew Lloyd Peth
August 22, 2018 at 09:16 am
Very interesting comment, Coldworld. Does our impressive TE depth make Ripkowski expendable?
Johnblood27
August 22, 2018 at 11:54 am
In a word...
YES
CJBauckham
August 22, 2018 at 06:11 am
'Do they make a jugs machine that can throw 20-40 yard passes deep so Moore can practice catching the ball in stride down the field? Now that would be beneficial.'
They do; it's name is Aaron Rodgers
Johnblood27
August 22, 2018 at 11:55 am
I have never noticed AR's JUGS.
Tundraboy
August 23, 2018 at 11:35 am
Exactly. Practice,Practice, Practice. Same as with Baseball, machines can not replicate timing, and the myriad of deliveries,style be etc.. He will be fine like Adams and so many others. Rodgers is the best to practice with.
LayingTheLawe
August 21, 2018 at 10:50 pm
Is MVS the one from this group that is going to shine? He can both separate and go deep. What team doesn't need that?
RCPackerFan
August 22, 2018 at 07:20 am
MVS would make the perfect 3rd/4th WR, especially in our offense.
A lineup with Adams, Cobb, Graham, a RB and MVS could be very dangerous. Most teams will be looking to double Adams or Graham. Leaving MVS a lot of solo coverage.
The part I like about MVS is he isn't just a speed guy who goes deep. His slant routes have been amazing.
Tundraboy
August 23, 2018 at 11:57 am
Slants used to be a staple. Maybe again.
Gianich
August 21, 2018 at 11:07 pm
Safety is weak spot on the team's 1st string at any position. Haven't seen or read any thing all camp long.
Koosh
August 23, 2018 at 01:41 pm
Super excited to see CBs doing their job!
Oppy
August 22, 2018 at 01:49 am
Really very pleasantly surprised by MVS's meteoric rise above the competition.
I expected him to be the roughest of the three rookies and thought the one the Packers would most likely want to sneak onto PS if at all possible.
He's been like rocket fuel so far.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 22, 2018 at 02:36 am
It sounds like this practice was the MVS party. There were only tweets describing about 9 actual plays, and MVS is noted in 5 of the plays.
Eye in the Sky [@The_Green_Gold] doesn't have all that many tweets, and most of the ones I've included before today have been retweets by other regulars. I went to their site - not a ton of tweets really, but nice video. Also, lots of opinions.
Coldworld
August 22, 2018 at 05:35 am
Although a couple of Eye’s tweets conflict with most post game analysis, notably that on House. Even allowing for spur of the moment reaction that is worth considering.
DraftHobbyist
August 22, 2018 at 08:06 am
Yup. One thing I hate about Packers beat writers is they all get together and talk and influence each other. Every year, you can see the narratives begin. Earlier, it was actually that ESB was better than MVS. Now it's that MVS is the best. IMO, Moore is the best WR out of the three. He was taken the highest and is the most developed. He drops some balls, but that's because he handfights and keeps the DB off of him where the WR's just allow themselves to get knocked off route.
Oppy
August 22, 2018 at 10:37 pm
Virtually all the scouting reports coming out of the draft claimed Jmon was the most nfl-ready wr of the three rookie WR's because he had full exposure to the entire route tree already, but they also claimed he had inconsistency when it came to catching the ball.
Jmon has dropped a number of catches out in the open in preseason so far. There's no hand fighting going on at the point of catch. He's got the yips. He's better than he's shown, but his drops have been what they are- flat out drops.
DraftHobbyist
August 23, 2018 at 01:04 pm
You really know how to miss the point of a post.
Oppy
August 23, 2018 at 06:42 pm
To address the specific point of your post:
The reason why you seem to believe there's a "narrative" being produced by all the beat writer's isn't because they confer with one another and come to an agreement on an agenda to push.
It's because they are all reporting on real events that transpire in real time in front of them, and they observe. Most of the beat writers are present for the same interviews as coaches and players are made available, and hear the same questions and responses.
In short, because they do their job of reporting observations, asking questions and reporting the answers, these men and women tend to report the same types of things, because they all observe the same practices, interview the same people. It's not narrative.. it's reporting.
Koosh
August 23, 2018 at 01:47 pm
Narratives? It's not like they brainstorm up an agenda. 2 minds are better than one, should help them weed out the biases they've held onto if anything....
Minniman
August 22, 2018 at 04:18 am
Thanks for the summary James, and interesting about Marcedes Lewis.
I've posted previously (and even then can't take credit for the thought), but I think that Marcedes Lewis will be the difference maker for the Packers O-line this year.... and a huge bonus that he's mentoring the rookie TE's to lift their blocking game.
What's that golf saying - drive for show and putt for dough - Jimmy G is the driver to ML's putter in this instance (no disrespect to the great things that I foresee Jimmy G doing this year in the red zone).
dobber
August 22, 2018 at 07:49 am
Lewis will be the signing we'll look back at after the season and say it was the key FA for 2018. I'm encouraged by Lewis's mentoring Tonyan. He's flashed a little here in the preseason...I don't know if it's enough to push Kendricks off the roster, but it's possible.
Johnblood27
August 22, 2018 at 11:59 am
please. no more kendricks.
I saw all I need to of him last year.
IMO he is veteran washed up. He mailed it in as bad as Jordy did last year and with the young lions we have, they will help this team more this year and in the future than kendricks will.
Let him go.
Koosh
August 23, 2018 at 01:50 pm
Washed up and mailed it in are not the same...
NickPerry
August 22, 2018 at 05:34 am
"Finding big people who can run" isn't easy, especially at this time of year."
Well hell Gute...I'd settle for a "Big Guy" who can BLOCK!
Good to hear Moore was out early and late. He needs to KEEP doing that because he is something after the catch from the tape I've seen. It's just the damn catch that's killing him now. I think it's totally mental at this point.
Coldworld
August 22, 2018 at 05:38 am
My guess is he needs to think less and let his natural skills take over. MVS is currently spoiling us. More normal WR path is that of Moore-think Jordy and Adams early experience for example.
RCPackerFan
August 22, 2018 at 07:11 am
I really am wondering if they may end up keeping 7 WR's and 4 TE's and 0 FB's.
I don't know how long it took the Packers offense to actually use a FB, but it felt like they didn't use one until late in the game.
With the offense this year, they seem set to use a LOT of 2 TE sets. And they will likely look at ways of using 3 TE's. One problem with using 3 TE sets is if one of them gets hurt they can't use 3. Right now I think the 4th TE would be Tonyan. He is flashing both in blocking and receiving. Byrd also could be the 4th as he is more similar to Kendricks would could be more of an H-back type of player.
Right now I am having a hard time seeing them cut any of the 3 Rookie WR's. The part to remember with rookies is its not just about this year. Its about how they project them for the future. While Moore has struggled with drops he has better getting open and separation. Once the game slows down for him, I think he will be just fine.
MVS has shown up big time. He not only is locking up a spot on the 53, he also is trying to earn playing time. With his size/speed and route running skills, he could be dangerous in this offense.
ESB has been consistent and has been really good in the slot. A WR of his size working in the slot could do a lot of damage.
If they keep the 3 rookies, and the other 3 spots are locked up (Adams, Cobb, Allison), that leaves 1 spot to go between Kumerow and Davis (probably).
Minniman
August 22, 2018 at 02:46 pm
RC, do you think that if Rip survives it would be because there's still question marks about the durability of the RB trio as well as question marks as to whether the O-line will hold up once injuries start creeping in?
The "good" news is, and this isn't meant to disrespect Rip (just the natural demise of the FB in the NFL), but if they do cut him and find that they need either a "pounder" RB or competent blocker, he'll probably be available.... so no harm in keeping him on until the final 53 cut-down.
RCPackerFan
August 22, 2018 at 04:31 pm
I do wonder that a bit to be honest. Also with Jones suspension the first 2 games, I could see them wanting to keep an extra 'runner' to help with pass protection and stuff.
I completely agree that if they do cut him they should be able to pick him up. Not many teams use FB's anymore. I want to say 6 had one last year?
But if they were to get rid of the FB this might be the year they do it.
Lare
August 22, 2018 at 06:18 pm
I doubt if there's any demand for Ripkowski's services if the Packers cut him. He didn't play well last year and I haven't seen any improvement from him this preseason so far.
Time to move on.
dobber
August 22, 2018 at 07:46 am
"In conclusion, this team can ill afford to have Davon House as its starting cornerback. Eye in the Sky"
He's clearly 4th or maybe 5th in the pecking order at this point. Most teams would say that they don't want CB4 or CB5 starting.
DraftHobbyist
August 22, 2018 at 08:12 am
I feel bad for any team that goes 5 WR wide against us and we put out Williams, Alexander, Jackson, King, and House. Good luck.
DraftHobbyist
August 22, 2018 at 08:17 am
"Kevin King and Tramon Williams in the slot, Jaire Alexander in the slot."
Judging by how the Tweet is organized, wouldn't that likely mean King and Williams on the outside and Alexander in the slot?
"Not sure who is responsible, MM or Philbin, but the Packers are using more WR floods with the RB flaring under for easy gains."
That's a Philbin thing, and it's a big reason I'm happy to have Philbin back. Philbin's Offenses pass a lot, but they protect the QB with a lot of quick passes to the different skill positions. That also makes life a lot easier on the OL, because the DL/pass-rushers are taking a big gamble to cheat upfield. They need to play more honest. And then when you start slowing the Defense down and drawing them up, you get those shots over the top. I love Philbin's Offense.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 22, 2018 at 10:10 am
I actually could not find out the name of the person or persons who run eye in the sky. Zack Kruse tends to retweet their tweets. It was an entertaining site. I was amused by their tweet about the Pittsburgh game: "Kyle Murphy cannot play left tackle" which was repeated maybe 6 times.
Andrew Lloyd Peth
August 22, 2018 at 09:38 am
It's time the Packers start thinking about spacing the field with their choice of outside receiver opposite Adams. Adams is quick and powerful, but not a blazer. Cobb is quick and crafty in the slot, but also not a blazer.
If the other outside WR doesn't present a legitimate threat downfield, then defenses will just continue pressing relentlessly--our biggest challenge of the past several years.
So that WR can't just be a good-hands type. He just can't. Not for this team. He MUST--I repeat, MUST--open up the field as a deep threat.
In my mind, that makes our candidates for the other outside starter, Kumerow and MVS.
But we'll go with Allison instead--the completely wrong choice for that role.
I likely wouldn't keep Allison, but if I did, it would be to back up Adams--not shrink the field for defenses at the other outside spot.
Get ready for more press coverage.
DraftHobbyist
August 22, 2018 at 12:59 pm
If Allison is the opening day #3 WR, I think he would have work to do to keep that spot. Any week the other WR's could pass him up. I'd rather start a rookie than Allison to get them playing time as well. Maybe that's the plan, but they have to learn the playbook well enough.
Minniman
August 22, 2018 at 03:07 pm
These next 2 games against the Raiders and Chiefs will be telling (especially the Chiefs game which will most likely have large chunks of the game with combinations of their starting D) for the rookie WR's.
The above is a no-brainer style statement I know, but ALP I'll be seeing how the trio progress in those games before considering the depth chart....... but calling it out, as one who was advocating a pitch for martavius bryant, I totally agree that a burner or 2 need to feature in the depth chart.
Injuries notwithstanding, the Packers will have the most diverse receiver corps this year than I have seen in 4-5 seasons and I'm excited to see them compete.
Oppy
August 22, 2018 at 10:53 pm
The last thing any CB wants to do is get assigned to jam Adams at the LOS. It's asking to get burned.
I also think you are not accounting for the presence of Graham (and even Lewis) up the seam. Either one (particularly Graham) are a mismatch for either a LB or CB, and should pull safety help to the deep middle of the field. That alone opens up room for everyone from the outside in to work, press or not.
Outside of that, It's not like Kumerow is a burner. He's got average WR speed. Lumping him in with MVS in terms of being a "blazer" is more than a stretch.
Andrew Lloyd Peth
August 23, 2018 at 09:39 am
No, he isn't a burner. But he's a full tenth of a second faster than Allison, and it really shows in their play...
...so what does that make Allison?
Oppy
August 23, 2018 at 07:14 pm
An NFL WR with exactly 35 more receptions (for 455 yards, long of 72) 2 more TD's, and 676 more total offensive and ST snaps than Jake Kumerow has during NFL regular season/post season play- even though Kumerow has been in the league a year longer than Allison?
Look, I like Jake Kumerow, and think he's proven to develop himself into a serviceable NFL WR. It's taken three years of work, and I appreciate that. However, he's not a rookie who exploded on the scene. He hasn't stuck with a 53 man roster yet. I just don't think there's that much of a difference between a guy like Kumerow (Who Rodgers is clearly pushing for, saying things like "He's approached the game like a pro's pro), and a guy like Allison (Who Rodgers recently told reporters he "Couldn't believe he didn't get drafted" after the very first time he practiced with him).
I'm not hung up on WR speed. It's a great asset, but WR's can be very productive without top tier speed.
Koosh
August 23, 2018 at 02:06 pm
100% agree, outside of Kumerow as the field stretcher. But that's what we need! MVS or Graham needs to be that guy
PatrickGB
August 22, 2018 at 11:21 am
I bad mouthed Tonyan in another thread. I wondered if he could block as an Hback. It seems that perhaps he can. If so, keep him over Ripkowski. It’s getting late in the preseason, and Davis is not there. Let him go.
Oppy
August 22, 2018 at 10:58 pm
Keep in mind Hback and Fullback are vastly different alignments and responsibilities. With that said, MM used to cross train all the TEs and FBs to be able to play all three positions, so why not go that route again? I don't know if MM will ever flat out nix the FB position, but if we're talking about finding ways to keep the best 53 overall football players on the roster, I agree- we have depth at TE and WR that is probably better talent / more productive than any of our FBs.
Andrew Lloyd Peth
August 23, 2018 at 09:43 am
My biggest concerns over losing Ripkowski are these:
1. We'd lose the occasional 2-back sets that diversify our attack. I just don't see the TE's matching his backfield prowess.
2. Ripkowski is a very good special teams player. A veteran leader for a unit lacking them.
I'm not saying he's untouchable, but I'd think long and hard before cutting him.
billybobton
August 23, 2018 at 12:49 pm
Losing the 2 back sets (as long as one is RIP) would be a big gain to the offense, check the stats on our 2 back v single back success even in short yardage
RIP is NOT a good special team player. he can't tackle and is not fast enough for coverage.
If you want pass blocking in the backfield RIP just can not do it, he is not good even given his physical advantages. At best is 3rd and that without having seen enough snaps from 4 of the other backs.
RIP is our 2nd best runner behind Jones, but guess how many carries he got while sitting the bench and missing blocks?
Koosh
August 23, 2018 at 02:09 pm
Dis guy just said RIP is our second best runner...