Packers Low on Options to Upgrade at Safety
By markoldacres
One of the biggest off-season question marks for the Green Bay Packers in 2023 is the safety position, and finding the answers may be more difficult than previously thought.
Entering the 2022 campaign, there was optimism in Green Bay that safety could be a position of strength.
Anchored by the uber reliable Adrian Amos, the floor of the group should have been high, and based on the expectation former-first round pick Darnell Savage would rebound from a disappointing 2021, it was easy to see a path to a successful back-end pairing.
Instead, Amos’ play noticeably deteriorated as he seemed to have lost a yard (or two) of his speed. Meanwhile, Savage ended up being benched midway through the season and then being moved to the slot.
Amos is now about to reach free agency, and based on GM Brian Gutekunst’s comments, it does not sound like the Packers will try to keep him around.
When speaking to the media at the NFL Scouting Combine this week, Gutekunst said: “We have a couple of safeties that are moving on.”
Rudy Ford and Dallin Leavitt, who were primarily brought in for their special teams prowess, are also set to hit the open market.
That leaves Savage as the only holdover from 2022 who played significant snaps, after Green Bay picked up his fifth-year option which pays him a guaranteed $7.9m next season.
The only way the team can get out of that salary is to trade Savage, and it’s hard to imagine another NFL team going out of their way to acquire him.
But whether Savage is on the 2023 Packers or not, the position needs some serious TLC. The problem is, Green Bay could find it challenging to fix their safety problem.
There are a host of potential free agents the team could go after, such as Jessie Bates, Jordan Poyer and Jimmie Ward, which could provide an instant injection of quality and experience.
But the Packers are once again strapped for salary cap space, and if they take a further cap hit by moving on from Aaron Rodgers, adding any notable veteran in free agency could be off the table.
There’s always the draft, but Green Bay’s hopes of using that avenue to fix their problem will have taken a hit this week due to the almost universally underwhelming performance of the safety class at the Combine.
Even Packers Twitter’s favourite Brian Branch failed to show the kind of athleticism the club usually covets.
There is a possibility Rasul Douglas makes the move to safety, and the position would appear to suit his skillset, but relying on him to smoothly transition and form an effective partnership with Savage is not the most foolproof plan.
The Packers are going to have to get creative if they want to get more consistent play from their safeties in 2023.
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Mark Oldacres is a sports writer from Birmingham, England and a Green Bay Packers fan. You can follow him on twitter at @MarkOldacres
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Comments (96)
NickPerry
March 05, 2023 at 07:21 am
The Packers need to address the Safety position in both the draft and free agency IMO. Whether Aaron Rodgers is back or not doesn't really matter. Sure, you have the additional $9 million in dead money if he's traded. BUT, the Packers would be DONE with it after that.
I'd move Douglas back to Safety, keep Savage in the slot if he can hang onto the job, and maybe bring back Ford. Jessie Bates would be an excellent signing and the Packers CAN afford him. He could also fit in any defense so when Barry is gone after 2023, at least the new DC would have one solid option at Safety and hopefully another one or two after the draft.
I think the Packers know EXACTLY what they want/are going to do. The Packers are now just waiting on Rodgers to figure out if it's the Jets, Raiders, or retirement. IMO they've figured out exactly where the money for the additional $9 million will come from and how they want to do it.
These next 10 days will be interesting. I know I'll be checking my phone 100 times a day, waiting to see what happens.
PackyCheese500
March 05, 2023 at 10:41 am
Bates is going to want 16 million per year at the very least. How could GB afford that? I do not seeing him come to GB when there are teams like Atlanta who have a ton of cap space and who have already met with him.
I do think bringing Ford back is a good idea, though, maybe even for the next couple of years. He is a good veteran presence at S, and he also provides lots of ST value.
I also agree that Savage should become the new slot CB and Douglas a S. Who will replace Douglas outside, though? Stokes?
The Raiders' GM has said they aren't interested in Rodgers, and that they prefer to have a younger QB that McDaniels can develop. Rodgers isn't going to LV. My guess is it will be NY.
IMO the safety class in this draft isn't as bad as people think. There are a couple of quality players I like. Sydney Brown of Illinois and JL Skinner of Boise St. are two day 2 S prospects who I think could both become very good for the Packers. Jordan Battle of Alabama is also decent.
For day 3 selections there are actually a lot of prospects who could turn out to be steals. Oklahoma St's Jason Taylor II, Memphis's Quindell Johnson, Houston's Gervarrius Owens, and Wisconsin's John Torchio are some of my favorite day 3 S prospects. The Packers have options in the draft.
LLCHESTY
March 05, 2023 at 11:51 am
Skinner tore his pec on Friday and will have surgery. Day 3 pick now.
PackyCheese500
March 05, 2023 at 12:20 pm
If so, then the Packers should absolutely get him! A day 3 steal!
Starrbrite
March 05, 2023 at 06:23 pm
I agree—the Packers know what they are going to do. And as you say—the next week or two will be very interesting.
Go Packers!!!
MooPack
March 05, 2023 at 07:44 am
All the big name safeties ran really slow at the combine. Branch was so slow he’s probably off a lot of teams 1st round grade, Packers most likely included. He’ll have to play close to the line of scrimmage where he is best. Long speed isn’t there, unless he really turns it around at this pro day.
Riley Moss, Iowa, with a move to safety may be a better option in the 2nd/3rd. Being an Iowa guy and Hawk fan I may be biased, but he is a playmaker and ball hawk. He had a very good combine as well. Some were already predicting he’d be a move to safety before the combine.
Kiley Ringo would be another I think that could make that move.
PackyCheese500
March 05, 2023 at 10:45 am
Idk if Moss is worth a day 2 selection (Husker fan here so I may be biased as well), but he looks like a good 4th round pick to me.
Sydney Brown of Illinois was one of the few Safeties that scored really well. With a 9+ RAS, I'm sure he's on the Packers' board for the second round. I really like him.
JL Skinner of Boise St. is another name to keep an eye on. He didn't test due to injury, but watch his pro day. I think he could be a nice fit.
Some of the Hawkeyes I really like in this draft for the Packers are EDGE Lukas Van Ness and ILB Jack Campbell. Both I think would add tons to this defense.
MooPack
March 05, 2023 at 03:43 pm
"Idk if Moss is worth a day 2 selection (Husker fan here so I may be biased as well), but he looks like a good 4th round pick to me."
I think 3rd round is latest Moss goes.
Even though Nebraska is Big Ten opponent, I'd like to see Big Red get back to those 80's glory years. Always had respect for their program. Really wish recruits could get past that mid west preconceived presumption.
If the Packers needed an ILB, I'd take Jack Campbell. Very good size, instinctive, and good short area explosion and quickness. He is going to be the best Hawkeye this year. Van Ness is a little overrated, IMO. I think Riley Moss could surprise if moved to safety.
PackyCheese500
March 06, 2023 at 07:53 am
If we trade 30-year old De'Vondre post J1 (and create 5+ million of cap space), we will need a new ILB.
Bear
March 05, 2023 at 06:09 pm
NFL Average 40 time by position
Position Time
Wide receiver 4.48
Cornerback 4.48
Running back 4.49
Free safety 4.53
Strong safety 4.55
Outside linebacker 4.60
Tight end 4.70
Inside linebacker 4.76
Fullback 4.80
Defensive end 4.80
Quarterback 4.93
Defensive tackle 5.06
Center 5.30
Offensive tackle 5.32
Offensive guard 5.37
MooPack
March 05, 2023 at 06:50 pm
https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2023/02/16/packers-have-a-need-for-team...
Packers 2nd slowest team in the NFL. Only Bucs were worse. That should tell you a lot.
Don't aim to be average. Do better. Be better.
stockholder
March 05, 2023 at 07:51 am
Like I've been saying. Gutey doesn't have the Answers.
Not to mention enough draft picks.
But after the way both Savage and Amos played.
I'm still willing to give them another shot.
We've spent too much on the position.
And No first rd pick is a sure thing, as we've found out.
IMO the problem is the 3-4-4. And Not the safeties.
No pass Rush. You get Failure. Doesn't matter where.
You can't stop the run. Draft the trench.
If there is an outstanding mismatch.
You draft him first. Find a place for him.
No matter how many safeties you draft.
It won't help. Because your DC will be fired next.
mrtundra
March 05, 2023 at 07:57 am
In this case, an Edge Rusher looks really plausible, at #15. Especially if Gary takes half the season to come back from his injury. We do need to pressure the QB. As for the DC being fired, I'm all for it.
jannesbjornson
March 05, 2023 at 08:28 am
It is a necessity. He will be on the PUP , or the IR. In any event they will need at least two Edge guys from the upper rounds. The weakness of the defense was a feeble Pass Rush. 34 sacks doesn't make it if you want to be a Playoff team. Remember, they had backup QBs work them over from Washington, and New England.
PackyCheese500
March 05, 2023 at 10:47 am
Well said. Lukas Van Ness oF Iowa or Felix Anudike Uzomah of Kansas St. are my top 2 guys. Will McDonald of Iowa St. and perhaps Isaiah Foskey of Notre Dame are also good too.
jannesbjornson
March 05, 2023 at 12:19 pm
Foskey seems a high bender. Van Ness can rotate low off the OT like Bosa. The key will be his strength and hand usage. Does he take Martial Arts or Boxing as part of his training?
PackyCheese500
March 05, 2023 at 12:21 pm
I don't know, although I know he played many sports in HS. His dad is a doctor of some sort, so LVN always stays in excellent physical condition and has almost no past injury history to speak of.
Hand usage can be coached. He already has the strength.
Duhawk_47
March 05, 2023 at 11:17 am
True story. Remember the buzz about Bailey Zappe being a potential starter over Mac Jones because of how he played us?
Johnblood27
March 05, 2023 at 09:04 am
press - Brian G, what do you think of your defensive coaching staffs execution?
Brian G - I'm all for it...
PackyCheese500
March 05, 2023 at 10:45 am
Lukas Van Ness is my guy! I think the Packers' FO will also really like him a lot too!
Johnblood27
March 05, 2023 at 11:31 am
Van Ness looks like a project to me.
A lot like Gary without the freaky athleticism.
Not a good look for a first round flyer.
Im not sold at this time.
BirdDogUni
March 05, 2023 at 12:20 pm
Taking a guy who never started a game in college at #15 overall doesn't seem like sound reasoning to me...
Taking a slow Safety doesn't seem smart either.
Mayer ran slow A% too...
Darnell Washington may have jumped his draft stock to the bottom of the 1st or very top of the 2nd round. His one handed catch at the combine, in conjunction with him destroying the blocking sled was impressive, not to mention his 4.64 forty time...
PackyCheese500
March 05, 2023 at 12:22 pm
Even though he didn't started he played the most snaps on Iowa's DL of any player. He was only a Sophomore and Iowa always starts the upperclassmen. He is actually the best of the bunch there.
And just remember that Darnell Savage ran a 4.36 40 yard dash, and the 49ers' Talanoa Hufanga, who may be the best safety in football, ran a 4.61. The Ravens' Kyle Hamilton ran a 4.59. Jessie Bates ran a 4.5
While speed for a safety is nice it certainly isn't the end-all-be-all. There are way more important factors to drafting safeties than speed. Instincts, in my opinion, is the most important. Sydney Brown of Illinois and JL Skinner of Boise St. are both very instinctive; that's why they're my favorite day 2 safety prospects.
BirdDogUni
March 05, 2023 at 06:33 pm
So you're saying our DC is an idiot who can't put guys in a position to succeed?
Color me shocked!
stockholder
March 05, 2023 at 03:29 pm
#15 Nolan Smith. ER Geo. - Bend - Extremely fast-Can be moved around
#45 Jamie Robinson S. FS - Fast a hitter- Good bye Amos
#78 DJ Turner. CB Mi- Fast - Moving Douglass Option.
#116 Daniel Scott. S Cal.- Big hitter, 4.5 Team Captain -smart!
#151 Davis Allen TE Clemson. -value pick
#171 Zacah Pickens. DL SC-
#234 Hunter Luepke. FB. ND st.
#237 Puka Nacka. WR. BYU
#244 Kaevon Merriweather S Iowa
#256 Zack Kuntz. TE. Old Dom.
#259 Demario Douglass WR Liberty
NickPerry
March 06, 2023 at 05:31 am
So you want to spend 5 of the first 6 picks on Defense and then bag on Gutekunst every chance you get?
PhantomII
March 05, 2023 at 05:27 pm
Washington looked real athletic and smooth running the 40. You can tell the less athletic pushed it so much they were out of control. He pushed the sled better also. I'm not crazy about using TE's for blocking as much as a mismatch nightmare in the pass game. He looks to be best at either to me...and better than Mayer.Washington is 6'6+ and 84"+ wingspan. If both are taken as mandatory I'd say he is the best at both overall. I think we see 4-QB's in round 1, The (S) group is marginal. I think we see 2-4 TE's taken in 1st and another 4 -6 by mid second round. There are at least 10 TE's better than any I've seen on our field. I'd like 2 new TE's in this draft.
jannesbjornson
March 06, 2023 at 11:58 am
Blocking TEs can be had in later rounds. He is limited in the passing game. Those reps went to Brock Bowers.
The TEs with receiving skills are Mayer, Kincaid, Kraft and Mallory.
jannesbjornson
March 06, 2023 at 11:58 am
Blocking TEs can be had in later rounds. He is limited in the passing game. Those reps went to Brock Bowers.
The TEs with receiving skills are Mayer, Kincaid, Kraft and Mallory.
PackyCheese500
March 05, 2023 at 12:25 pm
He has tons of physical upside and versatility - I think he does resemble Gary a lot, only instead of winning with speed mainly he wins with power. He can also do speed, though, as evidenced by his 4.58 40. He also has natural bend that suits the edge well - I like him a lot.
He certainly is a project, but he has all the physical tools to become an all pro. He can follow Gary's trajectory. Do these numbers not look freaky to you?
6'5
272 lbs
4.58 40
11 inch hands
34 inch arms
2.66 20 yd split
1.64 10 yd spit
4.32 shuttle
7.02 3-cone
Johnblood27
March 05, 2023 at 08:29 pm
Who was this???
NFL Combine Scores
40 Yard Dash: 4.62 seconds
40 Yard (MPH): 17.71 (MPH)
20 Yard Split: 2.68 seconds
10 Yard Split: 1.49 seconds
Bench Press: 23 reps (225 lb)
Wonderlic: 27 (0-50)
QB Ball Velocity: (N/A) (MPH)
Vertical Leap: 35.5 inches
Broad Jump: 121 inches
20 Yd Shuttle: 4.18 seconds
Three Cone: 6.90 seconds
Shuttle Split: (N/A) seconds
60 Yd Shuttle: (N/A) seconds
Four Square: (N/A) seconds
Pro Day Scores
Pro Day Date: 4/1/2009
40 Yard Dash: 4.58 seconds
40 Yard (MPH): 17.86 (MPH)
20 Yard Split: 2.68 seconds
10 Yard Split: 1.58 seconds
Bench Press: (N/A) reps (225 lb)
Vertical Leap: 35.0 inches
Height: 75.13 inches
Weight: 240 lbs
Broad Jump: (N/A) inches
Hand Size: 9.5 inches
Arm Length: 32.25 inches
20 Yd Shuttle: (N/A) seconds
Three Cone: (N/A) seconds
Johnblood27
March 05, 2023 at 08:30 pm
Clay Matthews...
Johnblood27
March 05, 2023 at 08:33 pm
2017 Combine Results & Measurements : Matthews/Watt
Matthews/Watt
><
and look this up, it wont copy...
Coldworld
March 05, 2023 at 08:24 am
As long as the DC/Scheme remain the same, I have grave doubts about anyone excelling at S for us, let alone a rookie, however talented.
BirdDogUni
March 05, 2023 at 12:26 pm
So you're saying the defensive backfield needs a Veteran to audible out of his idiot DC calls, kind of like AR12 does on offense? ;P
Coldworld
March 06, 2023 at 07:29 am
That’s one solution, but probably not a very sustainable one given the need for the need to play as a unit. If I’m right, the problem is the scheme being unrealistic in what it asks.
mrtundra
March 05, 2023 at 07:52 am
Can we really allow the combine to dictate whom we look at to fill key positions? It's almost as if the combine negates a players' on field history. Branch is still a good S, even though he was slow in Indy. Maybe we go after coverage CBs like Witherspoon or Gonzalez to team up with Stokes, Jaire and Rasul. Who knows? Gute will know who he wants, come draft time. Then its all gas, no brakes!
MooPack
March 05, 2023 at 07:59 am
I think it does to a certain point. No doubt Branch played well, but that 4.58 was a good LB range. I believe his second run was 4.61. If he kept it closer to to the norm, I don’t think teams would have a problem. Now? I do think that will drop him. As much as people want to poo poo the RAS. Gute doesn’t. Better be prepared for that. I was a big supporter of Branch as a 1st rd pick. The boards will adjust as they always do after the combine. Good or bad, it’s just the nature of the whole process.
Coldworld
March 05, 2023 at 09:43 am
The counter for this is the fact that a player can look great against lesser competition and yet lack the athleticism to translate in the pros. Of course, some just don’t test well on the day, giving a deceptively negative impression. These are just indices that good scouting can allow teams to weigh in context not isolation.
MooPack
March 05, 2023 at 03:04 pm
Yes, of course. Scouts will have to keep in mind whether a player is good because of the team around him or not. The Georgia D was one of the best, if not best, Defenses in the country. Is it the sum of all the parts, or were the individual players that good? Maybe partly both. Did the DL and LB play allow them to look better than they were? IIRC Jordan Battle was considered the best safety at the beginning of the season. He has dropped from that position somewhat. He didn't test as well either. So, are Branch and Battle's production a product of the teams that surround them, Georgia and Alabama respectively, or are they truly that good on their own merit? It can be argued both ways. The combine is one tool to determine that athletic ability and how that may translate to the NFL. We'll see how they do on their pro days, which tend to give players better scores. Although, another piece that has to be taken with a grain of salt.
jannesbjornson
March 05, 2023 at 08:13 am
I like Gonzalez and Porter,Jr, but they will be off boards. Ringo had an impressive Combine. He is a perimeter guy.
Cory Trice in the 3-4 rd range hits people and holds the perimeter, could flex to safety in a pinch. Tyrique Stevenson is a boundary enforcer with size and speed. Julius Brents from K-State can cover. Mekhi Garner from LSU. Guys with more size to handle the run stop. Jaylon Jones from the A&M crew. Valentine from Kentucky declared for the draft. Cornerback is another strength of this draft. I would move for at minimum Two CBs . They should bring back Ford and shift Douglas to FS. He is not a man to man guy. The Defensive backfields of Texas A&M, LSU, Miss.State, Florida State and Michigan stood out during the previous College campaign. Eli Hicks from 'BAMA returned from injury.
The attention of this draft has to be on the pass rush and secure a RT. A couple Edge guys and my guy Benton for 3 tech DT.
Gutedkunst needs to acquire more picks in rd two. Move 2024 picks if necessary to Plug the Holes.
Johnblood27
March 05, 2023 at 09:11 am
RT???
What is wrong or thin at RT???
Yosh is a solid RT. Best run blocking grade in the league.
Tom can play RT just fine if needed.
Walker and Jones have as much upside at RT as any draft pick above the 3rd round and GB needs to use the high picks for MUCH more needy spots than RT.
I'm with ya on the pass rush and I'm not particular where it comes from, inside (DL) or outside (OLB-Edge). Here is where a high draft pick - or two - can be impactful.
Safety is a black hole with no starship coming to the rescue, and TE is an obvious glaring huge need. I had S and TE very high on the list for last years draft and we took exactly NONE. Maybe Rhyan was a mistake in the 3rd and a S or TE could have worked there. I seem to remember that a couple TE I liked were on the board then.
jannesbjornson
March 05, 2023 at 10:25 am
Nijman should not be re-signed. He was exposed against top Edge people and Packertown will have to deal with Hendrickson for the next 5-10 years. I have more faith in Walker to improve. Tom needed help at both tackle spots. His footwork was good at LT as a fill-in, but lacks upper body power at this point in time. You cannot give help to the perimeter with such frequency. Get a blue chip at the RT and stop the pressure on the QB's face side. They have not replaced Bulaga. Safety can be fixed with a 3-4th rd pick. The CBs do most of the covering. Pick them and convert one of the bigger CBs to the position if necessary. You have to have six with ability to play against today's passing game. Inside and Outside pressure is needed for the rush. ? mark is Barry. Build your roster to Win, not settle for win/some.
PackyCheese500
March 05, 2023 at 10:50 am
You realize Yosh was injured in week 18 vs Hutchinson, right? A shoulder too, so no small matter. Before his injury, he ranked top-10 in pass block win rate and top-5 in run block win rate. He is perfectly capable of holding his own, and having him for 4.3m in 2023 would be a bargain. Yosh already is a good OT in the league.
Also remember that Yosh had not trained basically at all at RT before he was thrust there mid-season. His stats reflect this; he was a stupendous LT but merely a good RT. I suspect that an off-season of training at RT will really help him at RT. I would not be surprised if he was a top-10 or even top-5 Tackle next year.
dobber
March 05, 2023 at 12:23 pm
"His stats reflect this; he was a stupendous LT but merely a good RT"
Bjorn is right: in 2021, Nijman had a lot of help at LT. He had much less in 2022, but I wouldn't call him stupendous.
I also agree with you, Packy, in that the second round tender for an OT in his prime who has shown he can play might not keep him in GB. I haven't heard whether the Packers have touched Bakh's contract, yet, but certainly if they do, it raises questions about how the T position will be handled going forward.
PackyCheese500
March 05, 2023 at 12:32 pm
Yosh allowed only 5 pressures as LT (one every 40 snaps, on average). That is pretty darn good. Predictably, he fared worse at RT, a position he's received basically no training at during his pro career, allowing 20 pressures as a RT (one pressure every 28 snaps).
The talent is there for him to be a great O-lineman. All I am saying is before dedicating significant draft capital to the RT spot give Nijman a fair chance, which means letting him train a full offseason as a RT. I still believe he can be a great OT.
BirdDogUni
March 05, 2023 at 06:41 pm
We don't even know if Nijman will be on the team come opening day... Until we know, I don't think we can count on him, can we?
We don't even know what they're going to tender him at yet...
jannesbjornson
March 05, 2023 at 12:24 pm
It is his footwork and bend. Stupendous puts him in the ProBowl. Lewis was usually next to him in pass pro.
Coldworld
March 06, 2023 at 07:36 am
His footwork was non existent when we signed him. He was proficient on the left by the time he started playing, not so much on the right. He has the feet, it’s a question of giving him time to translate if we keep him and then use him on the right. Had we actually been willing to leet him practice on the right earlier and let Tom back up Bakh mid week and earlier in games, we might have seen more benefit.
I think we handled lots of OL personnel issues poorly and Nijman was one whom that made things tougher for. I’m not sure why we let him try to play the last two games with one arm. I find that baffling, but also that it spoke to his perceived value.
Johnblood27
March 05, 2023 at 11:29 am
Wallace? If you George Wallace, his condition is permanent, he aint coming back!
I think you mean Walker from Penn State.
jannesbjornson
March 05, 2023 at 12:29 pm
Yes, Need more coffee. Thanks. He was a starter for three years for Penn State. Some Big Ten recognition.
PackyCheese500
March 05, 2023 at 10:53 am
I completely agree with you JB. Last year, I was hoping the Packers would draft Kerby Joseph, a draft crush of mine, in the 3rd. We all saw how that played out once the Lions got him...
jannesbjornson
March 05, 2023 at 12:31 pm
Lovie Smith recruited and trained his defense in a Pro system. The LBs are good players. The CBs and safeties will all be drafted. Watch the Film, not the RAS.
PackyCheese500
March 05, 2023 at 10:48 am
I have some reservations with how well Branch will fit in the Packers' scheme. He also played mostly NB under Saban and not as much SS. I still think he's a good prospect, though, he's just not my personal favorite
jannesbjornson
March 05, 2023 at 12:44 pm
Battle seems like the better Pro Profile. Similar build like Amos.
Rossonero
March 05, 2023 at 08:30 am
I thought the whole point of getting Ford was to bolster our special teams, which he did. He's a great gunner. Now he's chopped liver?
I'd rather bring him back just for ST reasons alone, but also to give him a try at safety.
Our options are not great:
1. Give Ford a shot at safety
2. Move Douglas back there with Savage
3. Put a rookie back there with Savage
4. Sign an aging vet off the street (but we have very little cap $$)
5. Bring back Amos, but only for the right price
PackyCheese500
March 05, 2023 at 10:54 am
Here is what I think we should do:
1. Re-sign Ford
2. Convert Savage to a full-time slot corner
3. Move Douglas back to S.
4. Draft a S on day 2 to sit behind Douglas and Ford
5. Have Stokes and Jaire be the main outside CBs, and use Douglas there when necessary
Thegreatreynoldo
March 06, 2023 at 03:04 am
How much should GB pay Ford?
As a special teamer, I assume Rudy Ford would be in that $1.08M to $1.4M range. What I don't know if someone thinks he can be a safety (442 snaps with a 74.6 PFF grade in 2022, and 423 snaps in 2021 with Jax, PFF 57.7, which left him on the street) or at least a rotational guy like Tramon. That might be a whole different price range. I, myself, didn't see an above average safety while watching Ford. I am a little surprised by that PFF grade. Very up and down.
We shall soon know Ford's market. Nixon's as well.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 05, 2023 at 08:48 am
Don't see the Safety decision to be that big of a deal. The Packers need to select a very good CB on day 2 of the draft. They should also keep Ford and move Rasul to the back-end. Decide whether to pick-up a decent FA at Safety, and/or a mid-round draft pick at Safety.
Handsback
March 05, 2023 at 09:14 am
This happens every year, mock draft before combine change because of performance like the safeties and TEs just did at the Combine .
Yet as you get closer to the actual draft, the Combine risers/fallers settle closer to their pre-Combine positions.
I have noticed this happening every year. This year I found out why. Bill Pollan (sp?) on satellite radio said player grades are determined during the season. The all-star games and Combine MIGHT change a players status by one round. He indicated it would take an act of God to move a prospect 2 rounds either up or down.
He also said the Combine is for the medical check-out and interviews. One additional thing he brought up...players that practice during all-star games and skip the games will have ?s attached to them. He indicated they may be hiding something. This year he pointed out OT from Ohio St. , Jones I think, dropped out of Senior Bowl game. He had good practice week and was trying to get positive attention. He said it might impact him negatively.
Anyway just passing along my observations.
Just MHO
dobber
March 05, 2023 at 12:17 pm
"I have noticed this happening every year. This year I found out why. Bill Pollan (sp?) on satellite radio said player grades are determined during the season. "
Draftniks watch the Combine, scouts and GMs watch game film.
Gman1976
March 05, 2023 at 09:25 am
Good points Nick. I am optimistic about safety, because it looks like we will improve it this year via free agency & the draft.
splitpea1
March 05, 2023 at 11:17 am
Branch: Which is more important, athletic skills at a combine, or a good all-around player that can actually play the position and tackle once he's on the field? Time to get off of this athletic trip and find some hard-nosed football players.
And I hope one of those safeties moving on is not Ford....hopefully we're talking about Leavitt or Amos (I don't think we're lucky enough for it to be Savage). Ford is good on both special teams and defense, and I'd hate to lose him.
Since Gute seems intent on keeping certain players elsewhere, I don't see much room for notable FA acquisitions at this position. It doesn't make sense anyway, as we need to be rebuilding with younger players here. No more all-in, last dance B.S. anymore please.
Ferrari-Driver
March 05, 2023 at 11:44 am
The last thing we need is for the Packers to add a safety who runs around in the backfield like he is wearing cement shoes. LeRoy Butler is among my favorite Packer players both on and off the field. He was not a speed merchant coming into the league with a 40 time around 4.5-4.56. I remember seeing him run during his last year on the team and father time had robbed him of what speed he had come into the league with. However, Butler was so good at every other aspect of playing the position, that he wound up in the Hall of Fame. Unless, Gute feels one of the guys in this draft has LeRoy Butler qualities, I would stay away in the first two rounds. By the way, LeRoy was a second round draft choice and one of the best ones we ever made in that round. I hope they give Douglas a good look at the safety position this year. Based upon what I have seen of him, he looks like he has the potential to do the job.
dobber
March 05, 2023 at 12:11 pm
Remember that LeRoy Butler entered the league as a CB....
LLCHESTY
March 05, 2023 at 12:00 pm
Battle seems like a 3rd round plug and play starter to me. Maybe not pro bowl upside but solid floor. Have him visit a voodoo woman and get some juju beads before he gets on the plane to Green Bay and maybe the 3rd round curse could be lifted. The poor times by others might drive him into the 2nd round.
Martin and Scott really helped themselves but Martin has very limited experience playing deep and Scott missed a ton of tackles at Cal.
PackyCheese500
March 05, 2023 at 12:53 pm
It may just be me, but didn't Battle also have some tackling deficiencies? I have heard his football IQ is very high though
BirdDogUni
March 05, 2023 at 02:01 pm
It would help if we didn't draft talent from the 5th and 6th round in the 3rd round...
Dickrod, Deguara, Jace... etc...
Montravius Adams
Oren Burks
Amari Rodgers
Sean Rhyan...
Need I go on?
SMH
LLCHESTY
March 05, 2023 at 03:03 pm
Burnett wasn't great but was about the last serviceable 3rd rounder so maybe a safety breaks the string? They've done a lot better on 4th rounders than most teams so I guess it evens out.
BirdDogUni
March 05, 2023 at 06:45 pm
But, but, Mike Neal was our 2nd round pick that year, and he was total trash, complete bust, so he was TTs honorary 3rd round pick in the 2nd round that year...
SMH
BirdDogUni
March 05, 2023 at 12:39 pm
The biggest problem I have with Gutey is:
He targets the guys he wants to such an extent that he's oblivious to those players who might fall to him...
(Like Myers over Creed Humphrey...)
OL running 40s at the combine right now. I know it's not sexy, but Broderick Jones and Dawand Jones are two guys I do hope Gutey has targeted... Lol
PackyCheese500
March 05, 2023 at 12:56 pm
I think Humphrey over Myers is an obvious one. Other than that I think he's done a pretty darn good job of evaluating talent though.
I would only go OT on day 1 or 2 if Bakhtiar is traded. Otherwise take one on day 3, perhaps, or focus more on the interior, especially C.
PackyCheese500
March 05, 2023 at 01:07 pm
Mock Draft 3.0:
13: EDGE Lukas Van Ness, Iowa
15: TE Darnell Washington, Georgia
45: Traded to Giants for picks 57 and 89
56: S Sydney Brown, Illinois
57: WR Cedric Tillman, Tennessee
78: Traded with pick 89 to Jaguars for pick 56
115: WR Elijah Higgins, Stanford
149: DT Brodric Martin, Western Kentucky
170: C Ricky Stromberg, Arkansas
217: OG Cedrice Paillant, Marshall
224: K Chad Ryland, Maryland
233: DT Robert Cooper, Florida St.
239: EDGE Jeremiah Martin, Washington
243: S John Torhcio, Wisconsin
jannesbjornson
March 05, 2023 at 02:16 pm
The Sunday Sim. AI ain't what it is cracked up to be.
Top OTs and CBs Gone.
#15 to Crows for #22 & 1st (2024).
#22 & #7 (2024) to queens for #23/119
#23 Kalee Ringo CB
Crows 1st (2024) + Pack's # 3 (2024) for #30.
#30 Uzomah Edge
#45/171 to Bears for #53/103
#53/259 to Dallas #58/129 predictably, Kincaid
#58 Kraft TE
#78 Syd Brown S Not likely to go this low. Benton gone.
# 103 Harrison Edge
#129 Vorhees OG
#151 Ch Jones WR
#225 Rodriguez RB
#234 Izien S
#244 Averett TE
#256 Daniels CB
BirdDogUni
March 05, 2023 at 02:23 pm
Maybe it's just me, but drafting a guy at #13 overall who never started a game in college seems counter-intuitive to me...
I know Van Ness played starters minutes and I understand Kirk Ferentz is going to start the Seniors, which I totally respect, but I would love to know who you passed on at 13 and 15 to take the guys you took...
Love Darnell Washington and he made himself millions yesterday at the combine. Respect!
The one handed catch was sick, but the blocking sled was incredible...
MooPack
March 05, 2023 at 03:20 pm
Agree on Van Ness. As a Hawkeye, I like him, but not being a full time starter gives me pause. He is not strong enough yet, as the upper body bench and lower body explosion scores showed, and would be a bit more of a project than a Zach Harrison or Isaiah Foskey. Right now I think Van Ness is a little overrated. He has the frame to add strength and weight, but that may take a couple years. Not 1st round worthy to me. Lower 2nd round, maybe.
PackyCheese500
March 05, 2023 at 04:40 pm
Van Ness's bull rush is his best trait. He has the strength and the ability to develop. He actually played the most snaps of any player on Iowa's DL despite never starting a game. He was actually very fast and fluid, and the 20 and 10 yard splits show this.
The point of drafting Van Ness, similarly to Gary, isn't to get an immediate contributor, but someone who could develop into an all-pro caliber player 1-2 years down the stretch. I think Van Ness can absolutely become a superstar.
Hand usage was his main weakness, but that can be coached. As far as strength goes it sure shows up on film; his bull rush is nasty. Look at any of the draft scouts and you will see "Strength" as a positive for LVN.
MooPack
March 05, 2023 at 04:59 pm
If the Packers are willing to give him a couple years, like Gary, then yes he has some great ability to build on. No, right now I don't think strength is at the level of a few other guys at this point, no matter what scouts say and some flash plays. I watched him as a Hawkeye fan. He needs consistency. I like Van Ness longer term, just not as a 1st rounder. Foskey would be my pick in later 1st. However, They are incredibly close. Van Ness may have better upside and I wouldn't be upset at the pick, just not as a high first. There are better BPAs.
PackyCheese500
March 05, 2023 at 04:43 pm
Washington may be my new TE1. I was super impressed by him. FYI I passed over Bryan Branch, Bryan Bresee, and Jaxon Smith-Njigba.
BirdDogUni
March 05, 2023 at 03:50 pm
R1: 13 Broderick Jones (Aaron Rodgers Trade)
R1: 15 Bijan Robinson
R2: 43 Will McDonald IV (ART)
R2: 45 Darnell Washington
R2: 49 Dawand Jones OT (traded Bakhtiari to Pittsburgh)
R2: 59 Andre Carter II (traded Aaron Jones to Buffalo)
R3: 78 Sydney Brown SAFETY ILLINOIS
R4: 116 Moro Ojomo Texas DL
R5: 151 Elijah Higgins WR
R5: 171 Stetson Bennett QB (backup for Love)
R7: 234 Zack Kuntz TE (Won't be here, but couldn't pass on him...)
R7: 244 Tavion Thomas RB UTAH
R7: 256 Robert Beal Jr. EDGE Georgia
R7: 259 Jake Moody K Michigan
MooPack
March 05, 2023 at 03:58 pm
If they got that draft, I'd rate Gute as a genius.
MooPack
March 05, 2023 at 04:37 pm
If they got that draft, I'd rate Gute as a genius.
One change at the higher rounds, for me, would be Zach Harrison or Gervon Dexter instead of Will McDonald. Need bigger up front. Also, your probably right Zack Kuntz won't last that long. 4th round would probably be latest.
PackyCheese500
March 05, 2023 at 04:38 pm
Felix Anudike Uzomah is a good guy to target for EDGE in round 2
PackyCheese500
March 05, 2023 at 04:38 pm
Why would we take a RB in round 1? That makes no sense to me, especially with Jones and Dillon and Goodson and Taylor behind them. Also when you consider how many other needs we have, it seems irresponsible, and the FO will almost certainly not do that.
I don't think we need to draft 2 tackles with Yosh and Tom returning, even if Bakhtiari is traded.
Also, no one is going to give up a first and a second in 2023 for Rodgers. Best-case scenario is two firsts, one in 2023 and one (conditionally) in 2024.
Washington, after the combine, will probably be going in the first round. Kuntz's stock is also rising; probably a 4th rounder at very least
If Jones is traded (which won't happen), it will only be for a 3rd round pick at VERY best. Other teams won't want to take on his salary and contract. 2nd round pick is a bit expensive.
I like the Ojomo, Higgins, and Beal picks and especially the Moody pick. He may be gone by #259.
Why would we also take a second RB in the 7th? I do not understand peoples' fascination with RBs. We have Jones and Dillon, one of the best (if not the best) RB tandems in the league. With so many other needs, let's focus on those
PhantomII
March 05, 2023 at 05:42 pm
I think the top 10 TE's are gone by mid 3rd round. He's the #1 RB in the class. Jones is gone soon and Dillon has not shown enough to be RB1.
PackyCheese500
March 05, 2023 at 06:07 pm
But RB of all positions is the one that can afford to be un-addressed. Look at KC's RBs - a 7th round draft pick (Pacheco) and a guy on a 1.3m 1 year deal (McKinnon). They won the Super Bowl. Literally every other position (with the exception of Long Snapper) is more important than RB.
It makes even less sense when you consider that we'll have Jones and Dillon, the best RB duo in the league, back for the 2023 season
If we want to improve the run game then let's focus on the OL.
BirdDogUni
March 05, 2023 at 06:27 pm
Do you happen to remember when the RB position in GB was a %'in wasteland? Brandon Jackson and James Starks?
If you're honest, Brandon Jackson was a 3rd round pick (*Correction: Brandon Jackson was a terrible 2nd round pick...) that was pretty terrible. Not bad in pass pro, but relatively worthless. James Starks? He was a 6th round pick and without him Aaron Rodgers doesn't have a Super Bowl win, but he was really trash too. The only reason he played was because TT ignored the RB position for years...
Personally, I don't think Gutey would/will draft Robinson or Johnston, but like you, I do a mock draft for fun, but obviously you're taking it too damn serious...
Lighten up PC500...
PhantomII
March 05, 2023 at 07:24 pm
I don't think RB's are a dime a dozen...because ones that are weapons are not. If we got LUCKY and got Jones in the 5th because evaluators suck. Jones is a weapon. We need weapons. I think this RB is special. I have not seen too many GB RB's that were special. I'm all for a bigger and stronger OL...and I sure wish ML and Gute were, because if I was to pick the biggest weakness in our offense playoffs, it's the OL inability to push other teams DL's around enough for our RB's to flourish and move the chains easier.I will also say that Jones and Dillon were hurt in 2 playoff seasons and ML completely shut down the run game because the talent level drop-off and he never played the backups. We need a lot more than a RB though, like a couple more good WR's and very good TE.
PackyCheese500
March 06, 2023 at 04:00 pm
Does Belichick take 1st round RBs? No, because he knows they are a dime a dozen. RBs are, for the most part, only as good as their OL is run-blocking
BirdDogUni
March 05, 2023 at 06:07 pm
Because he was the BPA.
I don't understand why people pass on the best player available to take a lesser player at a perceived weakness?
We also don't know if Josh will be back. Broderick could start at LT for a decade and Dawand could start at RT for a decade. Instead of having questions about the OL, you have zero questions and possibly the best RB in the NFL running behind them.
There is more than one way to win in the NFL. Giving Love an OL that is well above average, one of the best young RBs available and possibly the best blocking TE in the NFL with the ability to catch anything in the redzone seems like a pretty good idea to me.
RBs can play STs too, so taking a flyer on a guy like Travion Thomas in the 7th round gives you 4 years of control over a guy who you might need if you have some injuries at the RB position, which does happen.
Taking a starting LT in 1st round as opposed to a guy who never started a game in college seems like a no brainer to me, but you do you brother...
PackyCheese500
March 06, 2023 at 04:04 pm
Why would we have a Tackle team of Broderick and Dawand when we already have one (Tom) and probably another (Nijman)?
I have said this time and time again; LVN not starting a game is an irrelevant argument; you know how Iowa does things. He actually played the most snaps on the DL of any Hawkeye.
I think taking a starting LT is a great idea, but not already when you have one. Right now, we have two good takles and one all-pro tackle. Why would we invest a first rounder into OT when we already have 3 great players there (not to mention Rasheed and C. Jones, both of whom show exciting potential)?
If Bakhtiari would be traded, I would not be opposed to taking a round 1 OL at all. Skoronski is my preference due to his versatility to play all over the line.
Why would you take a R7 flyer on a RB instead of a S, WR, or CB? Safeties can play STs, and with Taylor and Goodson, I don't think we need more. We already have 4 RBs for next season, and it is impossible to imagine we'd keep 5 on the roster.
Thegreatreynoldo
March 06, 2023 at 03:17 am
BDU took an RB because he traded Aaron Jones. And because Robinson figures to be a great RB.
Aaron Jones comes to the acquiring team in a trade with a $1.08M base, $500K workout and $900K game active bonus,so at most $2.4M, and at most $12M in 2024. 2 years, $14.4M for Jones gets you a second because Jones is cheap, still low mileage, very good and young enough. And it was pick 59, so a late second, damn near a high third rounder. Seems reasonable to me.
Also, GB released Patrick Taylor November 23 (week 12) and nobody signed him. I like Taylor well enough, but he is nothing special.
PackyCheese500
March 06, 2023 at 04:08 pm
Gotcha - I didn't account for his restructure. The point is, though, even if Jones is traded we don't need a round 1 RB. Jones, after all, was a 5th rounder. This is a deep class of RBs, so we should just take one on day 3 in that case.
The FO is not going to trade Jones right after they restructure him, though.
Taylor may not be special, but do you need your 3rd string RB to be? He is good on STs and would probably be decent if the OL run blocks well. Let's be fixing the OL before RBs.
Thegreatreynoldo
March 07, 2023 at 07:04 am
Agreed on not needing a running back. I would have to think he is the next Barry Sanders, or someone like that.
BirdDogUni
March 05, 2023 at 08:01 pm
OK PackyCheese500 - Before you go all nuclear, we all know this won't happen, but it was fun...
I traded AR12 to Vegas for 7 and 38 + R1 '24 and R2 '25. Then I traded 7 to the Panthers for their #9 and #39, then I traded 9 to the Texans for #12 and #33...
R1: 12 Broderick Jones LT Georgia (LT for a Decade) Trade Bakh at the trade deadline for all we can get...
Then I traded our #15 pick to Chargers for their 21st and 53rd...
R1: 21 Andre Carter II EDGE 6' 6 1/2" 256 lbs
R2: 33 Darnell Washington TE Georgia Best overall TE in the draft IMO.
R2: 38 Dawand Jones RT Ohio State - RT for a decade, giving us the ability to move Tom to Center...
R2: 39 Nolan Smith EDGE Georgia - Not sure why he's dropped, especially with his speed, but he did...
R2: 45 Darius Rush CB South Carolina (Speed and length)
R2: 53 Sydney Brown S Illinois
R3: 78 Devon Achane RB Texas A&M (Fast!) Can also catch the ball.
R4: 116 Owen Pappoe LB Auburn (Fast!) STs to start with...
R5: 151 Elijah Higgins WR/TE Stanford Big possession WR or "appears to have the necessary tools to become a dynamic F tight end with the ability to work all three levels of the field." -- Per NFL.com
R5: 171 Jakorian Bennett CB Maryland
R7: 234 Stetson Bennett QB Georgia - Had an excellent combine workout with a pretty deep ball. Love's backup.
R7: 237 Zack Kuntz TE Old Dominion - I don't think he'll last through the 4th round honestly.
R7: 244 Brandon Hill S Pittsburgh
R7: Evan Hull RB Northwestern - Excellent 4.47 speed. STs gunner - Caught 55 balls for 546 yards in 2022...
R7: Jake Moody K Michigan - Cold weather Kicker to replace Crosby...
Like I said, we all know this draft could never happen, but if it did, I'd be pretty stoked to say the least... ; P
PackyCheese500
March 06, 2023 at 04:10 pm
"Before you go all nuclear" - LOL. This made me laugh (no joke). I am a serious Packer Fan (maybe sometimes too serious), but i can relate to the fun of simulating drafts.