So, only 2 played significant snaps at OL. I remember Sherrod and Spriggs picks well. Packers fans were drooled about their data. They were projected both as 1st round picks. Never pan out.

Brian Bulaga was only pick that justify his drafting. College did not play long for Packers as I remember.

What I want to say is that projected first rounder are just that. Projects. No guarantee. As there are no guarantee for any player. That is all. But Packers have some good scouts who obviously knows to recognize talents among those late round Oliners. I believe Packers have no need to spare high draft pick on OL.

LMAO!

“Thank you kindly for playing! Ginger, tell the man what he’s won…”

Appreciate you digging in on Delance. I have to as well. Can you imagine the planning mtgs AR has had with NYJ leading up to this?

Bak signed his extension, then Aaron claims on a podcast the next week that that was the very day he decided he wanted to play for the Jets.

Bing.

Then you look at what they have to protect Rodgers? Nothing. Nothing they can count on. Becton returning from a broken kneecap, maybe switches to RT. That’s it. If he can… that’s no gimme.

What? They’re going to draft 4 other OL and Aaron’s gonna be cool with that?
Psssha!

Trade for Bakhtiari and draft 3 OL?

Psssha!

No. That’s what got me looking at who AR would want that were tradable, looking up their dead cap hits. First Bak, then Runyan. Thought more after learning how poor their C play has been. Myers dead cap about $1.2M.

Not having a draft class to fit into their cap, combined with their need to re-sign Quinnen Williams? That helps their 2023 cap. Toss their other picks to GB, 112, 143 & 207 for whole lot, including Hanson & Newman?

The entire 2023 NYJ draft for AR, Runyan, Myers, Hanson & Newman? R1 2024 post June 1 for Bak?

That’s a gigantic leap guess, but fits the lay of the land. All OL fully trained in Hackett’s scheme adds a lot more value.

Put it this way, we have Woody’s woody in a vice. If the Packers pull out of this trade, what are the Jets left with?

Their very own Dick Sinderhantz.

3rd day, whether we trade Bakh or not.

Yes, post June 1.

So...they could've left his contract alone, gotten something like $6+M in cap relief this year with a pre-Jun 1 trade or release, or better on post Jun 1--but instead touched up his contract such that the only way they could move him is if it's post Jun. 1, where they net less cap relief (~ $4.5M) and incur a significant charge in 2024?

That sounds smart.

OMG, you just said it!

“The Newman/Hanson farce.”

Farce or preview?

Greengold. here are the explanations and answers you asked for:

STR: “In all probability, based on Jordan's leading all of college football in interceptions his last year of college…”

G&G: "Stop right there. Please, explain the factors which led to this 2019 anomaly for Jordan Love,"

STR: Greengold, I'll leave excuses for Jordan's all of college football leading interceptions for you to try to explain.

Jordan wasn't playing with a broken thumb on this throwing hand 12 of 17 games.
Didn't lose a Hall of Fame wide receiver.

Didn't lose the receiver that saved Kansas City's season in the AFC championship game.
Jordan threw the interceptions, not his defense, not his receivers, not his coaches.

G&G: "There are multiple answers."

STR: There are multiple excuses I am sure for Jordan's performance, but I will give you reality.

G&G: "Jordan Love, the most efficient and accurate QB in all of college football in 2018."
STR: There are no facts to support this statement.

1. Jordan Love ranked 34th in completion percentage in 2018 with a completion average of 64% playing against inferior competition.

Future NFL Qbs like Gardner Minshew 70.7%, Kyler Murray 69%, Tua Tagovailoa 69%, Brett Rypien 67.3%, Brock Purdy 66.4%, Zach Wilson 65.9%, Trevor Lawrence 65.2%, Sam Ehlinger 64.7%, Tyler Huntley 64.1% and 24 other College QBs all had higher competiton/accuracy percentages than Jordan.

See ESPN College Football States 2018 season or Sports Reference 2018 Passing as the Cheese Head TV doesn't seem to like links.

I don't know what measure you are using for "efficiency".

2. Jordan in 2018 - and his entire 2017-19 3 year college career - was playing against Mountain West Conference teams - the Little Sisters of the Poor.

Never once has there been a National Champion from that Conference.
And the non conference teams on the Utah State's schedule in 2018 were the Little Sisters of the Poor's little sisters - 3-9 New Mexico State, 1-10 Tennessee Tech (from the Ohio Valley Conference with football "powerhouses" like UT Martin, Lindenwood, Tennessee State, Southeast Missouri, etc.), North Texas (from powerhouse Conference USA with Middle Tennessee State, Florida International University, Charlotte, UAB, UTEP, Louisiana Tech, Rice, etc.).

In the one 2018 game against a team from a major conference - a "Power Five Conference" (ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac 12, SEC) producing National Champions, the Big Ten, Jordan played against an average Michigan State team that would finish 7-6 and Utah State and Jordan threw 0 Tds and 2 interceptions in an opening day loss - Jordan's NFL passer rating that day was 68.2.

The next week Utah State, played another team outside the Mountain West Conference, but it was another little sister of the little sisters of the poor, 3-9 New Mexico State, and though Utah State won big, Utah State won despite Jordan's performance - 14 for 27 with 1 TD and 1 interception for a 66.7% NFL Passer rating.

In 2019, the day of reckoning came for Jordan and every day since against NFL worthy competition has been the same.

In the opening game of 2019 Jordan and Utah State faced Wake Forest from the ACC, a Power Five Conference team, and Jordan throws 3 interceptions and his counterpart at Wake Forest, Jaime Newman, 0 interceptions and Wake Forest wins.

Here is a taste of that Wake Forest game:

"The Aggies’ final drive was disjointed, with Love initially uncorking several bombs deep downfield into coverage that were lucky not to be intercepted. Yet they haltingly picked up yardage, first when Love found Siaosi Mariner down the middle for 24 yards; then five more on a short completion to Caleb Repp; and a crucial additional 15 when another attempt to Repp resulted in a targeting penalty on Wake cornerback Nasir Greer.

With the ball now at at the 31-yard line — well within the effective range of kicker Dominik Eberle — USU seemed poised to at least force overtime.

One play later, that poise disappeared in a fog of ill-conceived aggression, as Love forced a throw into the right flat, and a diving Justin Strnad picked it off at the 20-yard line to finally seal the deal.

It was a disappointing conclusion for USU, which racked up 596 yards for the game, but might better remember the sting of consecutive first-quarter drives into the red zone concluding with a combined zero points — the former ending with a fourth-and-1 run by Warren being stuffed for no gain at the Wake 13; the latter terminating on a third-and-3 from the 4-yard line, when Love had his first interception picked off in the end zone."
Next Utah State played the kid sister of the little sisters of the poor's little sister - the Stony Brook "Seawolves" from the Colonial Athletic Association - Real Competition!!, with such powerhouses in the conference as Elon, Towson, Monmouth, etc.

But then Utah State played the only other non Little Sister of the Poor team from Mountain West Conference or the pushovers Utah State chose for its non conference games, LSU!

Much like 20 year old Aaron Rodgers and huge underdog Cal on October 9, 2004 l had a chance to show what he could do against the Nation's top ranked team and defending National Champion USC with Pete Carroll coaching and future NFL star Reggie Bush and2004 Heisman Trophy Winner and NFL QB Matt Leinhart, Utah State and Jordan Love had the chance to play then #5 ranked LSU on October 5, 2019 and elevate themselves to the top.

And what did Jordan Love and Utah State do with that opportunity against Joe Burrow and LSU?

Love 15 for 30, 0 Tds, 3 interceptions, 130 yards passing and an ABYSMAL 20.1 NFL Passer Rating!!

Burrow 27 for 38, 5 Tds, 1 interception, 344 yards passing and a 127.6 NFL Passer Rating!

Here on YOUTUBE is the FULL GAME video Green and Gold, watch it and see what you think of Jordan Love's performance in the then and now biggest game of his career:

October 5, 2019 - Utah State vs #5 LSU

Although the Utah State defense did its part for Jordan- intercepting Burrow and recovering 2 fumbles and giving Jordan Love great field position, all Jordan could do for most of the day were 3 and outs and 3 interceptions, keeping Utah State's defense on the field all day.

Not even a touchdown for Love and Utah State!

Much like the Kansas City Chief game that Jordan started in 2021 - 7 point, 19 for 34, 1 TD, 1 Interception, 69.5% NFL passer rating - terrible! Only touchdown scored is late in the 4th quarter with the game already decided and the Chiefs - like the Eagles in the Packers Eagles game this year - sitting back in a prevent defense and giving Jordan short passes that Green and Gold could complete. After Green Bay scores, Chiefs just run out the clock, like the Eagles. The pass rushes and blitz and pressure were reserved for the first 3 quarters when the game was still in the balance.

Here is a description read about of the Utah State Jordan Love vs. LSU Joe Burrow game:
The Utah State offense was rendered ineffective against LSU, which Andersen said was doing “everything” to limit it.

“Our MO was to get some mojo going and get some plays stacked on each other to wear them out,” Andersen said. “It didn’t happen today. We didn’t get that one play. You’ve got to find a way to get a couple of first downs. It was very frustrating to see where we were on offense today against a very talented defense. I’m not taking away from LSU.”
Quarterback Jordan Love went 15 for 30 for 130 yards through the air and threw three interceptions and no touchdowns, by far his worst performance of the season.
The Aggie defense did have one interception, by Cameron Haney, and the two forced fumbles by Meitzenheimer, but the offense was unable to convert either of those into touchdowns, settling instead for field goals in the red zone. Nathan said at least one of those should have been seven points instead of three and it was frustrating for them to not be able to execute.

“Anytime you get a turnover, you want to capitalize on those turnovers,” Meitzenheimer said. “I’m just trying to make plays for my teammates.”

By comparison, we know what happened with 20 year old junior Aaron Rodgers in that game against #1 USC, here is the video, also on Youtube:

Aaron Rodgers sets record - No. 7 Cal vs. No. 1 USC (October 9, 2004) | NCAA Football Highlights

Rodgers: 29 completions in 34 pass attempts for 267 yards and 1 TD and 0 Interceptions and NFL Passer rating of 109.1 , outplaying 2004 Heisman Trophy Winner and 2004 National Champion USC QB Matt Leinhart.

Lenhart: 15 completions in 24 pass attempts for 164 yards and 2 TD and 1 interception and NFL Passer rating of 93.0.

Here is an excerpt from a description of the game:

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Southern California seemed helpless as Aaron Rodgers picked away at its defense, hitting pass after pass. But with California just 9 yards from a potential winning score, the Trojans finally found a way to stop the Golden Bears' near-perfect quarterback.

The top-ranked Trojans held the seventh-ranked Bears out of the end zone after a first-and-goal with less than two minutes left and held on for a 23-17 victory Saturday.
"I was running on empty, our defense was running on empty, butI knew they weren't going to score," Trojans defensive end Shaun Cody said.

Southern California (5-0, 2-0 Pac-10) extended its winning streak to 14 games and avenged its only loss in the last 26. The Bears' 34-31 triple-overtime victory last season kept the Trojans from claiming an undisputed national title.

Before Cal's final four plays, Rodgers was 29-for-31 for 267 yards and a touchdown.
"It's frustrating as a defense when a guy is on fire like that," Cody said. "You've just got to hold on and try to do something thing to stop them from the end zone."

That just what the Trojans did after Rodgers got Cal (3-1, 1-1) to first-and-goal at the 9 with just under two minutes left.

Southern Cal got a sack and forced three incomplete passes.
Rodgers' final throw came with pressure coming and zipped by a diving Geoff McArthur in the end zone, sending most of the more than 90,000 at the Los Angeles Coliseum into a frenzy and the Bears home with a hard-fought loss.

Matt Leinart threw two touchdown passes for the Trojans, who failed to get a first down in the fourth quarter.

"Anybody watching this game knows we really dominated the game. We just came up a little short in the score," said Rodgers, who tied an NCAA record by completing his first 23 passes for the Bears (3-1, 1-1).

It was the first time in 52 years the Golden Bears and Trojans met with both teams ranked in the top 10, and the much-awaited matchup lived up to the hype. The teams traded touchdowns to start the third quarter with Leinart hooking up with Dwayne Jarrett on a 16-yard score and Marshawn Lynch plunging in from 2 yards out for Cal to make it 23-17.

Reggie Bush appeared to get the momentum back for Southern Cal with an electrifying 84-yard kickoff return. Bush bobbled the ball twice trying to field the kick, then split the coverage and raced clear across the field before being taken down at the 16.

But Cal thwarted the Trojans when Harrison Smith intercepted Leinart's tipped pass in the end zone.

Cal dominated the fourth quarter putting together two long drives. The only thing the Bears failed to do was score.

"Bend but don't break, that's what this game became," Trojans coach Pete Carroll said.
Tom Schneider missed a 36-yard field goal wide right with 6:53 left that would have pulled Cal within three.

Rodgers and Co. got the ball back with 4:30 left.

"We expected to win when we took the field," Rodgers said. "I said, 'We're going to go 65 yards right here and get the win.' It's just frustrating that we couldn't get the job done."
Rodgers hooked up with McArthur on passes of 11 and 19 yards, the latter a dart over a defender as McArthur streaked down the sideline that gave the Bears a first down at the 9.

Rodgers threw his first incompletion that wasn't a throwaway on first down, and Southern Cal snuffed out a shovel pass play with Manuel Wright sacking the junior quarterback on second down.

After another incomplete throw into the end zone on third down from the 14, Cal called a timeout.

With the crowd blaring, Southern Cal got a push up the middle and made the biggest stop of the game. All that was left was for Leinart to take a knee twice and secure the Trojans' latest escape.

The Trojans had to rally from 11 points down at half to beat Stanford 31-28 in their last game.

"The last two weeks have been a battle to the end," said Leinart, who lost the battle of Heisman contender quarterbacks, going 15-for-25 for 164 yards -- not that it mattered to the junior. "I'm so excited I can hardly talk," he said.

J.J. Arrington had 112 yards on 21 carries for the Bears, who outgained the Trojans 424-205 but have still never beaten a No. 1 team in seven tries.

For a change, Southern Cal got off to good start against the Bears. Cal outscored the Trojans 42-10 in the first half of the last two meetings. This time the Trojans grabbed an early 10-0 advantage with the help of a couple of Cal miscues.

The first came when Cal punter David Lonie couldn't handle a low snap and was tackled at the Bears 31. Moments later, Leinart hit LenDale White sneaking out of the backfield from 5 yards out for a 7-0 lead.

Cal's defense allowed only three first-half field goals by Ryan Killeen after the touchdown, shutting down Southern Cal after the Trojans came up with two takeaways and had a chance to build a comfortable lead.

The Bears had little trouble moving the ball in the first half, looking every bit like the second-ranked offense in the country, but it took a while for them to get into the end zone.

Rodgers completed a perfect first half with a 20-yard touchdown to McArthur that made it 13-10 with 1:37 left in the second quarter.

Rodgers was 14-for-14 in the first half for 133 yards.

G&G: Below are a set of refresher numbers:

2018 Jordan Love - Utah St.
267 Comp , 417 Att, 67%, 3547 yds, 8.6 y/a, 32 TD, 6 INT, 158.3 rating

STR: First, putting aside the fact that Jordan for his 3 years at Utah State played the overwhelming majority of his games against Mountain West Conference Little Sisters of the Poor Competition and then their out of Conference games against handpicked little sisters of the little sisters, the college passer rating can be confused with the NFL passer rating for which a perfect score is 158.3 and Jordan did not come anywhere close to a perfect NFL passer rating in any of his 3 college seasons.

So let's put Jordan's final college year passer rating of 158.3 into proper perspective.

Tua's college passer rating for 2019 was 199.4, Kyler Murray 199.2, Dwyane Haskins 174.1, Brock Purdy 169.9.

Jordan was tenth in college passer rating in his junior season.

But since it is NFL passer rating that we judge NFL QBs on and for good reason:

"Through the 2020 NFL season, in the 78 games where a passer - with a minimum of 10 passing attempts - achieved a perfect 158.3 passer rating his team won all but 5 times. Consequently the NFL's passer rating is an excellent measure of the QB's performance and contribution towards winning. "

let's see what Jordan's attempts, completions, interceptions and yards passing give us in terms of NFL passer rating.

You can do the calculation in a spread sheet (it is a simple formula) or use a website's calculator.

Jordan's 2018 NFL passer rating was 110.6, the anomaly compared to his NFL passer rating from his 2017 season - 77.4 - and his 2019 season - 82.79.

G&G: Secondly, please list Jordan Love’s qualities/characteristics which led the Packers to trade up in 2020 to take him, despite his throwing 19 INT in 2019.

STR: Green and Gold, actually an all of College Football leading 17 interceptions, not 19.
Factors that led to Brian's trading up for Jordan:

1) Nothing other than Brian Gutekunst's poor judgement, inexperience as a GM, poor communication skills, youthful ego and loss of his emotions and jealousy of Aaron Rodgers composure, honesty and superior communication skills led Brian to trade up to take Love in 2020,

2) Brian overlooked the fact that Rodgers the past 2 years in 2018 and 2019 had just broken an all time NFL Record for fewest interceptions - only 2 - by a QB throwing more than 500 passes in a season and then in 2019 challenged his own record with just 4 interceptions, finishing 2nd all time.

3) Brian also mistook the 2019 Jordan Love of the Little Sisters of the Poor Mountain West Conference for the 2004 Aaron Rodgers of the Pac 12 Conference producer of 10 National Championships and failed to study both QBs performances against NFL type competition, which Aaron by virtue of the conference he was playing in was seeing every week. Jordan crumbled in college vs. big time competition, while Aaron and Brett too in 1990 vs Alabama and Auburn thrived.

4) Brian also mistook the 2019 Aaron Rodgers for the 2007 Brett Favre. Rodgers is all time NFL leader in protecting the football and Favre is the NFL leader in giving the ball away.

Sports Illustrated put it well:

"GREEN BAY, Wis. – The Green Bay Packers traded up to select Jordan Love in the first round of last year’s draft. From the raw numbers, he could hardly be more different than the man he might eventually replace, Aaron Rodgers.

Rodgers has the best touchdown-to-interception ratio and lowest interception percentage in NFL history. Rodgers’ ability to make big plays while avoiding big plays for the opponent is a defining characteristic. Love, on the other hand, threw 20 touchdowns vs. 17 interceptions last season, the latter number being the most in the nation."

and should have stopped there as should have Brian.

But now if this ignorant emotion and jealousy driven trade goes through - and maybe even if Brian does the prudent thing and retains Rodgers as the backup in case Jordan fails as the starter, which based on probability he will - we will get to see reality and we can compare Jordan's 2023 performance with that of Aaron's in 2008:

The Packers finished 6 and 10 in 2008 not because of Rodgers who was near the top of 32 starting quarterbacks in just about every important QB category, but due to key injuries on defense to nose tackle Cullen Jenkins (Jenkins drew double teams and the Packers had 9 sacks in the 1st 4 games and only 18 in the finally 12 games after he was lost), linebacker Nick Barnett (defense's play caller and leading tackler in 2007, lost for the last 7 games of 2008), and safety Atari Bigby (Bigby led the Packers in interceptions in 2007 and was 3rd in tackles) in game 2.

As a consequence of these injuries, the Packers defense in 2007 was ranked 6th and gave up 291 points and in 2008 the Packers defense was ranked 22nd and gave up 380 points

Rodgers in 2008 was near the top of the 32 starting QBs in all categories, despite playing through a severe injury to his right throwing shoulder in week 4 against Tampa Bay that limited him in practice and he played through for several games.

Statistic: 2008 total (NFL Rank)

Passing Yards: 4,038 (4)
Completions: 341 (7)
Completion %: 65.6 (10)
Touchdowns: 28 (4)
QB Rating: 93.8 (6)
20-plus yd. completions:48 (5T)
40-plus yd. completions:16 (1T)
Third-down QB rating:105.8 (3)
First downs passing:182 (9T)

Consequently, there is no grace period for Jordan in 2023.

Packers were 3 and 1 before Rodgers broke his thumb year and 13-3, 13-3 and 13-4 the 3 years prior and unless Packer management continues to rip the team apart the Packer 2023-24 team will be better than the 2021-22 Packer team every where other than maybe receiver and tight end depending on how 2022's and 2-023's draft picks work out.

In 2023, Jordan will now have had 4 years to develop. Joe Burrow, Tua Tagovailoa, and Justin Herbert, the other QBs drafted in the first round of 2020, all had to start immediately or nearly immediately in Tua's case and have now played 3 years. Jordan has had 3 years to watch and learn from the greatest NFL QB of all time.

If Jordan doesn't come close to matching Rodgers QB numbers from 2008 - adjusted upwards for changes that have made the game easier for QBs and offense - Jordan is never going to be the Packers future starting QB.

The Packers are just a year removed from 13-3, 13-3, and 13-4 seasons and if not for injuries last year and adjustments due to Packer Management's screw up of the Davante Adams situation, the Packers would have had a comparable season last year.

Barring injuries, the Packers should expect to go 13-4 and have home field advantage.
If not, it is because:

a) Jordan is failing (i.e. Brian's choice)

b) Brian has otherwise screwed up the team over the last 13-14 months.

The Packers are not some team attempting to tank in 2023 or the ridiculous Dallas Mavericks and Mark Cuban tanking in 2023 who should have their 2023 first round draft pick taken away.

If you look at the year by year 2000 through 2022 NFL statistics for total QB performance - from Statsmuse - totals for all 32 teams quarterbacks - you will notice that quarterback performance numbers have improved significantly.
This improvement in QB numbers is in no small measure due to the continuous rule changes to protect quarterbacks and create more offense and scoring.

If you compare 2008 totals for all QBs - Aaron's 1st year as a starter - to 2022's totals for all QBs, you will notice the following:

Passer Rating - has increased 7.1% (Aaron's 93.8% in 2008 would have been 100.4% in 2022)

Pass Attempts per season has increased 9.3% (Aaron's 536 in 2008 would have been 586 in 2022)

Completion Pct. - has increased 5.2% (Aaron's 63.6% in 2008 would have been 66.9% in 2022)

Yards per Attempt - has increased 1.4% (Aaron's 7.5% in 2008 would have been 7.6% in 2022)

Yards per Game - has increased 4.5% (Aaron's 252.4 or 4,038 yards over 16 games in 2008 would have been 263.88 or 4,486 yards over 17 games in 2022)
TD% per pass attempt - has increased 7.6% (Aaron's 5.2 % in 2008 and 28 TD passes would have been 5.6% in 2022 and 32.5 TD passes in 2022)
Interception % per pass attempt: has fallen 17.1% (Aaron's 2.4% in 2008 would have been 1.9% in 2022)

Interceptions: have fallen by 10.2% (Aaron's 13 in 2008 would have fallen to 11.6 in 2022)

Green and Gold and everyone, keep these numbers handy as we compare Jordan in his 4th year relative to Aaron in his 4th year if this Ignorant, emotion based Packer Management (Brian and Mark) trade goes through.

Like Tedford QBs?

Couldn’t resist but it is worth saying that there is no absolute rule.

You're not wrong!!! I know, I've had that thought many times myself...

Washington has a much lower floor (basically as a blocker), but if that speed at his side can be harnessed and isn’t purely linear as some feel, then yes, he could be a generational player. I think a good offensive mind can use that linear size/speed mix immediately, while he develops.

The word “better” escapes you? The comparison was not of overall merit, but to illustrate the fact that doing everything well doesn’t necessarily translate.

Kincaid, for me, is a glorified WR. I don’t take that back issue lightly, but I do take out medical staff seriously. If he’s not off our board completely, I think he will be fine. That said, I see him as a late 1st at best.

If I have to pick at 15, and there isn’t an edge or DL I like and I have to go O, I’d roll the dice on Washington too. Worst case he’s a red zone guy who can block.