Green and Bold: Where Are All the WRs?
The Green Bay Packers did a bold thing when they kept seven wide receivers (and only three inside linebackers) on the 53-man roster at the end of final cuts. After struggling on offense last season and dealing with injuries to multiple pass-catchers, the Packers clearly wanted to keep their homegrown talent on their roster and off other teams', as many players likely would not have gotten through waivers to be placed on the practice squad. However, for a team that has seven wide receivers at its disposal—all of whom are active on game day, given their roles on special teams—the Packers sure aren't using them much on the field.
By mnbruton
The Green Bay Packers did a bold thing when they kept seven wide receivers (and only three inside linebackers) on the 53-man roster at the end of final cuts.
After struggling on offense last season and dealing with injuries to multiple pass-catchers, the Packers clearly wanted to keep their homegrown talent on their roster and off other teams', as many players likely would not have gotten through waivers to be placed on the practice squad.
However, for a team that has seven wide receivers at its disposal—all of whom are active on game day, given their roles on special teams—the Packers sure aren't using them much on the field.
Green Bay's offense has continued to look sluggish and, frankly, vanilla through the two games to start the 2016 season, a worrisome continuation of a problem that plagued the team through the entire 2015 season and into the playoffs earlier this year.
Mike McCarthy continues to be at the helm calling plays. Jordy Nelson is back in action. Ty Montgomery is healthy. Davante Adams is working on his drops. The Packers, for the first time in a long time, have an athletic tight end to threaten the seam.
So what's the problem?
While you can never fully remove execution from the equation—Adams has still dropped a couple passes, Nelson still seems a little off, and Aaron Rodgers looks plain overwhelmed at times—the problem, at its core, seems to stem from the offensive game plan.
Scheme vs. execution is an age-old question. And the Packers' scheme is the Packers' scheme. There's not much use pointing out its flaws, because it's not going to change as long as Mike McCarthy is at the helm.
But it's worth mentioning before we get deeper into personnel groupings and coaching decisions that the Packers run a spread-based offense that uses isolation routes, where receivers, who are spaced far across the field, have to beat their one-on-one coverage in order to get open and make the play.
Aaron Rodgers, at the beginning of any play, will receive the snap and analyze the defense as he progresses through his reads. He has a hot read, a second read, a third read, etc. Whichever of his receivers appears to be winning his route is the one Rodgers will target.
Because their scheme is heavy on isolation routes, the pass-catchers have to win man coverage.
But often, they don't, especially in the last year. When that happens, the play can fall apart real fast—and that's when you see Rodgers running around in the pocket, trying to extend the play, and sometimes just taking off with the ball himself.
The Packers don't use a lot of pre-snap motion. They don't run a lot of designed crossing routes. And the offense is starting to look a little vanilla for it.
But this is the Packers' scheme, like it or not, and they've had immense success within it in the past. They have set NFL offensive records with it. They have won a Super Bowl with it.
Yet NFL defenses have continued to evolve. Some coordinators and coaches, like Minnesota's Mike Zimmer, meet the Packers so often that they can perfect a strategy to stymie Green Bay's offensive attack.
If the Packers aren't going to alter their scheme, they can at least get creative with their personnel groupings.
The base personnel for most NFL offenses is the 11 package, featuring three wide receivers, one tight end, and one running back.
For the Packers, this is their "Zebra" package. McCarthy loves it because it is what allows the team to utilize the up-tempo, no-huddle offense so effectively.
If you're keeping the same 11 players on the field, you can run at a higher tempo. But in so doing, you sacrifice versatility and creativity in offensive looks.
That doesn't mean those players are always doing the same thing. In the "Zebra" personnel with Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb, Davante Adams, Jared Cook, and Eddie Lacy, you can have Cobb in the slot or lined up in the backfield. You can have Cook split out wide or in to block. You can have Nelson as the outside X receiver or even in the slot, if Cobb is in the backfield.
The Packers can and do often mix up where they line these base players up on the field.
But that's only three of seven active receivers seeing a significant chunk of action on on the field. Per ESPN Stats & Information and via Rob Demovsky, so far this season the Packers have used their 11 personnel on 69.9 percent of their offensive plays, and three-receiver sets in general on 77.2 percent of their offensive plays.
On 84 of 95 offensive snaps, those three receivers were the same three players: Nelson, Cobb, and Adams.
Meanwhile, not counting special teams, Jared Abbrederis has played 20 snaps; Ty Montgomery, 11; rookie Trevor Davis, five; and Jeff Janis has played only on special teams as he's currently wearing a club cast.
It makes sense that the Packers want to keep their tempo up; doing so can tire out defenses and make them easier to diagnose. But their offensive creativity shouldn't suffer as a result.
McCarthy, offensive coordinator Edgar Bennett, and Rodgers—who works in tandem with McCarthy on play selection and, like most elite quarterbacks, has the option to opt out of a play based on what he sees on the defense—need to work in some of their other weapons.
Have Abbrederis run a go route. Bring in Cook to threaten the seam. Use Davis and Cobb in both slots. And do a better job establishing the run so that the passing game can have success. In the 2010 season, when the Packers won the Super Bowl, they were running four-receiver sets often, and even their "big five" receiver set. That worked out pretty well in the end.
Right now, this offense is too predictable, and we saw how that worked out for the Packers last year.
Comments (86)
RCPackerFan
September 21, 2016 at 06:48 am
The offense is way to predictable. Running the 11 personnel on 70% of plays is about 20% to much with the talent they have sitting on the bench.
I believe that the up tempo is what is hurting it the most. They like to hurry up and get to the line so that the defense can't substitute, which in theory is great. But since 2014 it hasn't worked out as well. One of the biggest reasons is because of the injury to Nelson. Nelson was so dominant that it forced teams to play them differently. Until Nelson returns to form the offense will continue to struggle with this.
The loss of Nelson was bigger then McCarthy anticipated. He never really changed the way they played offensively even though defenses were able to start playing them differently. Defenses essentially have figured out how to play the Packers offense.
IMO the best way to counter punch what defenses are doing to the offense is to start changing what they do more often. Start changing personnel more often. Run more 2 TE sets, more 4 WR or 5 WR sets. They have the talent to make the change.
The uptempo works when you have the mismatch. What I would like to see them do is start to change the personnel more often and once they have the mismatch then go into the hurry up, no huddle and put the pressure on the defense.
Rodgers has talked about needing to find their identity. Its hard to find their identity when they don't change what they are doing especially when its not working.
Thegreatreynoldo
September 21, 2016 at 07:40 am
GB isn't seeking their identity, they are trying to force it.
RCPackerFan
September 21, 2016 at 07:43 am
exactly true.
Packmaniac
September 21, 2016 at 07:58 am
Exactly, Reynoldo
Tundraboy
September 21, 2016 at 02:01 pm
No that makes too much sense! Lol. Hoping the coaching committee and Rodgers put their ego and pride aside and do the only thing they can adjust, adapt.
jeremyjjbrown
September 21, 2016 at 06:59 am
Rodgers play has been in serious decline for a year. McCarthy who was once lauded for his creativity is now functionally fixed on 11 personnel. And, Davante Adams is a starter no matter how bad he plays. This is not the Packers anymore. This is stuff the Browns do.
Pucky Nye
September 21, 2016 at 06:59 am
The packers coaching has to design routes to out maneuver the man to man coverage their getting. Green Bays offense is way too predictable. If I can tell what play is coming by looking at Green Bays formation, wouldn't you think the opposing defenses and their coaches see it too?
Our defense has played well enough to win, but letting teams go for it on 4th & 4 and making it doesn't sit well.
rdent
September 21, 2016 at 08:47 am
Or Da Bears,it boggles my mind as to why they keep going with Davante Adams as a starter
lecko
September 21, 2016 at 04:04 pm
The stats of Pro Footbal focus show him at botttm of WR list for 2015. We know he was injured and I hope he improves abit fo rnow he is not as good as MM and QB talk
rdent
September 22, 2016 at 09:48 am
The low down on him out of college: Lacks functional playing strength to consistently beat the jam and can get hung up on the line, no kidding,lol
staffordsneckfat
September 21, 2016 at 09:38 am
This "Rodgers is in decline" narrative is such an easy take. Look at all the major media outlets today, everyone has some version of this opinion.
Let's try to be better than the hot take sports media for once?
Let me ask you this,
Does any other QB in the league buy time and complete those passes to force OT in Arizona with basically no healthy wide receivers?
DrealynWilliams
September 21, 2016 at 11:21 am
Good point. I'm on record saying Rodgers is 2nd to none when it comes to pocket awareness and escaping pressures, but he definitely hasn't been playing like himself for a while now. We've only gotten flashes instead of quarters,halves or even full games of brilliant remarkable plays. I don't know what to call it, but I won't go as far to say he's in a decline. Something's up though.
fastmoving
September 21, 2016 at 01:18 pm
that was more janis catch (against peterson!!!) than 12s throw. other than that did he had maybe the best wideouts of the whole year on the field (abby, janis) that day.
and a lot of qb did a lot of stuff better than ar over the last year.
did he i his carrer ever carried his theam on his shoulder, except the magic sb run? and he has/had much better talent as 4 or brady.
Tundraboy
September 21, 2016 at 02:32 pm
No. Great point. And that is why, the physical decline argument is bs. Its his, head, ego, and too many voices in the room, stubborn coaching.
lecko
September 21, 2016 at 04:07 pm
I read thorough analysisi of his play for 2015 somewhere. They say he has as many great plays and bad plays in 2015 as in years before. What was misisng were good or above noir,mal plays which he made before lots of, but in 2015 they were in sharp decline.
And he made those play in Arizona only because all other WRs wer e injured, so he had to throw to WR who still doesnt have his trust.
murphy
September 21, 2016 at 12:00 pm
Reacting emotionally, cleaning out the coaching staff every 2-3 years, desperately drafting 1st rounders of questionable nature to "save" the franchise, and spending decades between playoff wins. This is stuff the Browns do.
stockholder
September 21, 2016 at 07:07 am
The problem is they've gotten away from the west coast offense! The chains were always moving, and the WRs /TEs/RBs would catch the ball. I would much rather see Allison on the 53 roster again. The west coast offense requires WRs that can catch the ball. Allison had the best hands in pre-season camp. MMs choice of staying with Adams is the wrong one. If they don't play the WRs behind him , then they should not be on the team. I believe the packers understand the problem at RB. My hope is they sign Spiller. Somehow the "A-rod to his favorites" has to change. He keeps looking down the field, keeps scrabbling ,and the time is Not there. He must throw short again. Then go deep. Then short. The odds of throwing up prayers does not give you a great offense. A-rod needs to get his head out of his ass and run this offense right again.
dobber
September 21, 2016 at 07:44 am
"My hope is they sign Spiller. "
For real? This guy is getting long in the tooth, is a coach killer and can't stay healthy. Why throw money at someone who isn't going to see the field or develop?
stockholder
September 21, 2016 at 02:05 pm
The packers aren't throwing anything away by giving him a shot. The same things were said about Cook. If A guy who has the tools and wants to show he'd be an asset to the team. Hell yes sign him. Lacy and Starks both dropped passes this year. This guy was a big threat. If he has the passion , and speed, he will give this team a little bit more. TT signed James Jones again, and looked what happen last year.
Razer
September 21, 2016 at 07:46 am
Spiller is coming off a knee injury that has sapped his greatest strength. He has been released by Buffalo and New Orleans. You want him?
Hematite
September 21, 2016 at 07:57 am
It would make absolutely no sense to sign Spiller!
4thand1
September 21, 2016 at 07:36 pm
Rodgers really sucks at scrabble.
NickPerry
September 21, 2016 at 07:22 am
I think Michelle said it herself, McCarthy is not going to change. He won't change his scheme even though he has 14 straight games of sample, a 6-8 record in those games, and a QB who has seemed to develop a bunch of bad habits. This team has become painful to watch. Before when the Packers were down by a score (Which wasn't often) I had no doubt the Offense would go right down the field and score. Now each time the offense takes the field I hope for some 1st downs instead of 3 and outs. Last season the Packers finished 23rd in total offense. Through 2 games this year they rank 29th in total offense, and 31st in passing offense.
Both Bearmeat and I and several others felt the Packers need to, have to, and hopefully will turn it around the next several weeks at home. They don't leave Lambeau until October 30th for Atlanta. If they don't have it going by then they never will, not this season anyways.
Do you guys find it absolutely F'ing amazing the Packers have used the other receivers so little? 36 snaps have been played by Abby, Monty, and Davis. THANK GOD we kept those 7, McCarthy's brilliance using them is shining through!!!
BTW... Did you all see how far the Packers dropped in the Rankings? I don't put a lot of value in those in the first place but there fun to look at. Sure blows when your team is out of the Top 10 though, not as much "Fun".
Bearmeat
September 21, 2016 at 07:34 am
I don't care about the rankings this early. It's over-reaction Monday in September. Things will straighten out by 10/15. If this team is doing what it is capable of, all that crap will take care of itself.
NickPerry
September 21, 2016 at 08:11 am
I don't care either Bearmeat. What it does show, no matter what any of us think about it is how FAR the Packers have fallen in EVERYBODYS opinion. t the end log the day who cares ... But Gosh dang man, 13th in some polls? I'd say 2008 in Rodgers 1st season was the last time this team out of top 10 when Rodgers was healthy.
For the first time in since around the beginning of the 2006 season l'm really concerned if this team CAN turn it around. Concerned doesn't mean I don't think it can or will happen , but this Offense is just UGLY.
RCPackerFan
September 21, 2016 at 07:41 am
I really don't get what they are doing offensively right now. They have 7 WR's and only play 3. Even when Abbrederis was emerging in the preseason as a threat and a player that Rodgers really likes. They have a FB that has barely been used, and the TE's haven't been targeted very much.
All preseason we kept seeing the team run a lot of 2 TE sets and focused on running the ball. Yet through the first 2 games they have mostly ran 11 personnel, and Lacy has ran the ball 26 times total even though he has a 4.3 yard per rush average.
Rodgers has spoken about needing to find their identity. I agree they do. And their identity is not running the 11 personnel 70% of the time. Their identity should be in the versatility of the offense. They should be changing the packages and personnel groupings to create mismatches. They have really good talent at WR. Players that can do different things. Why not use them?
IMO, besides Rodgers play the most concerning part is the game plans and in game management. McCarthy basically said they have to choose how they want to play, uptempo/hurry up or changing personnel to create different looks. For one, since the one way isn't and hasn't been working maybe try the other? But also why can't you have both?
Why can't you mix and match players and once you find the mismatches go the hurry up and put the pressure on the defense? Why does it have to be one way or the other?
dobber
September 21, 2016 at 07:47 am
I've always been a fan of two-TE sets, but then, I like power football. Would like to see the Packers utilize it simply because Cook has the wheels to function as a 3rd WR, and it also gives them an extra big body to run the football. Do it, Mike!
RCPackerFan
September 21, 2016 at 08:03 am
This maybe just crazy, but what if they ran the offense with 2 WR's, 1 TE, 1 FB and 1 RB? I know that is old school and all, but who knows, it may work.
Cook is actually a pretty good blocker. And he could spread out to be our 3rd WR. Ripkowski can block and catch.
I really would just like to see the offense be more versatile.
DrealynWilliams
September 21, 2016 at 04:43 pm
@RC
I have to disagree with Cook being a good blocker. He shows little to no interest in blocking. He's more of a get in the way blocker than an effective blocker. I have more confidence in our WRs blocking than Cook blocking.
I do agree with the 2WRs, 1TE, 1FB and 1RB formation though. If the TE is flexed, it should be Cook. If the TE is inline, it should be Rodgers.
Also, which 2 WRs should be out there? Or does it even matter at this point?
Thegreatreynoldo
September 21, 2016 at 09:19 pm
Well, I watched RR be an ¨I cannot even get in the way of the defender blocker but I can flagrantly hold¨ a few times. Drealyn, do you think, upon reflection, that your position on 2 TE sets is logically consistent? Are you using an idealized vision of what a TE should be to advocate for using 2 of them: a guy who can run block and drive block, pass block, chip and release, or immediately run a route? Do we have 2 of those? Do we have one of those?
I think we have one of those, even if I think his blocking grade is between a C- and a C+ somewhere. Now do not get confused - you know very well what blocking grade I would assign to RR. Alright, it does look to me like RR has taken a few baby steps in run blocking, but his pass pro is just abysmal. I agree that if one TE is flexed, it should be Cook (because he is light-years better as a route running as opposed to a check down receiver), and RR should be inline, even though I think Cook is considerably better in line as well. I agree that 2 TE sets have some, limited, value for GB.
DrealynWilliams
September 22, 2016 at 01:22 pm
@Reynoldo
Our 2 TE sets have proven to be successful at times and I like it now more than previous seasons because it offers a true receiving threat and a now well-balanced TE. I'd like to see more of it because it puts #12 under the center, they can still run no-huddle with that personnel, and there are 3 passing threats on the field. The Offense can still dictate who the Defense brings out. I have no idea what you or anyone else is seeing in Cook's blocking. Pass blocking or run blocking. He looks like he's not interested whatsoever.
I'm not saying Rodgers is a great blocker (running or passing) but he is much better than Cook. I have examples of both Rodgers and Cook.
RCPackerFan
September 22, 2016 at 07:12 am
From what I have seen of Cook he is better then advertised in blocking. Is he perfect, no... But from what I have seen he is better then Rodgers. Cook has made some really nice blocks though.
If they were to run that formation I would use Nelson, Cobb, Cook, Ripkowski and Lacy.
To me there is a lot that they could do, but they are limiting themselves by staying with the same personnel for 70% of the time.
Tundraboy
September 22, 2016 at 12:16 am
Why is right. Id like to see in game adjustments instead of weekly adjustments.
rdent
September 21, 2016 at 08:54 am
Yep, I'll give it till the bye week but I must admit from what I've seen so far my enthusiasm for this season has dropped off a bit
Razer
September 21, 2016 at 09:51 am
Mine too.
Bearmeat
September 21, 2016 at 07:33 am
Excellent article Michelle. Thanks.
In my opinion, the problems with the Packers offense stem from two very stubborn, accomplished, and proud people: Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers. Both already have arguably HOF level credentials. Both have been at the forefront of the NFL for years. And if both don't take a big, fat, look in the mirror, and I mean soon, this Packers era will be over.
You don't have to abandon your core identity to embrace versatility. GB has offensive playmakers all over the field that can do certain things very very well, but MM refuses to use them unless their names are Nelson, Cobb and Adams.
WRs, you HAVE to beat press man. This team is spending over 23 million this year on WRs. Almost 15% of its cap if I'm not mistaken. Not getting open regularly for what you are being paid is a disgrace.
And Aaron? Run the frigging offense the way it's supposed to be run. Throw to the open man (including the TEs and RBs). Get the ball out on time. THEN and ONLY then will your schoolyard ball ability show it's hand. The system has to come first. You are putting yourself first. Do your own job. Stop blaming teammates for your poor play. In general, just knock it off.
The past calendar year of Packers football has SUCKED to watch. I haven't been more frustrated as a fan since about 1998-1999. This team and last years team both had super bowl ability and has SERIOUSLY underachieved. If they don't figure it out, and miss the playoffs as a result, I want them all gone. All of them. TT, MM and AR.
Yeah. I said it.
Razer
September 21, 2016 at 07:53 am
Step back from the ledge my friend. It is hard to watch but at least we have the talent in place. We just need to use it properly.
I do think that your point about stubborn is true. Perhaps TT should have stepped in at season's end and told MM to flush Clements and Van Pelt and get a real OC who can get some horsepower from this engine. Either way, we need to move off of the mark and take a different tack.
staffordsneckfat
September 21, 2016 at 09:31 am
Bearmeat,
With all due respect, if the most frustrated you have been as a Packer fan is 1998-1999, then you haven't been around very long.
If you ever saw this team play in the mid-70s you would want to kick your own ass for calling for the heads of McCarthy, Thompson, and Rodgers.
-Neckfat
Bearmeat
September 21, 2016 at 10:32 am
I said the most frustrated SINCE 1998/1999.
I was around for the latter part of the 80s. Even as a kid, I knew the Packers sucked though. I don't get mad at someone for doing poorly if they don't have the ability. I just expect people to achieve at the level they are capable of.
This team is capable of much more. The mid 80s teams weren't.
Tundraboy
September 22, 2016 at 12:19 am
Thanks for saying what few will.
Razer
September 21, 2016 at 07:34 am
Good description of the workings of the Packer offense. Based on the design of this scheme and the workings of MM, the only answer is to beat your man. After a year of teams jamming us at the line and Rodgers panicking in the backfield, our only solution is to "wait for Jordy to come back". Why? Well, because Jordy can beat his man. Or, can he?
Our problem is not personnel, it is intelligence. Teams have been showing you how they will beat your offense for 20+ games and you still run through the same subset of players and plays. Our idea of a wrinkle is to send Cobb into the backfield to run like a power back or to split Lacy wide to run like a WR.
Maybe the departure of Philbin and McAdoo marked the departure of game planning intelligence. Now all we are left with is cliches of "cleaning things up" or "we hope to run more". The echos of Josh Sitton comments about teams knowing what is coming rings all too true.
dobber
September 21, 2016 at 07:49 am
From the day Lovie Smith took over the Bears, opposing divisional coaches have said that their primary goal has been to beat the Packers. Teams have been trying to find defensive personnel that will allow them to match up and neutralize the offense...well, it's working. The offense isn't adapting. If there's one thing nature tells us, it's that if you don't adapt, you become extinct.
RCPackerFan
September 21, 2016 at 08:41 am
IMO, the difference really is losing Nelson. He was a dynamic player that changed the way defenses played us. After teams figured out how to beat us without Nelson, the Packers never adjusted. Last year they really didn't have the players to make the adjustments needed. But this year they do.
Hopefully McCarthy isn't stubborn enough to realize this, and makes the adjustments.
rdent
September 21, 2016 at 09:16 am
With all the "talent"there appears to be on that side of the ball,if losing one starting receiver last year completely derails the offense?makes one wonder,scheme?not quite the talent there? coaching? I can't believe how quickly that offense fell over the cliff
RCPackerFan
September 21, 2016 at 10:25 am
For me this all started once teams realized the Packers had no one to scare them at WR. When they had Nelson he scared teams. Teams adjusted in how to play them, and they haven't responded. Last year was a bit different with the amount of injuries they had at WR.
But this year they have the players to be able to play many different ways. They have the ability to show many looks and be very versatile. But they haven't yet.
Finwiz
September 21, 2016 at 10:28 am
I agree RC.....and that's where Davis comes into the plan eventually, and maybe Janis when healthy. They need to stress the defense with speed deep or outside the hashes to drop both safeties back and maybe a linebacker or two. Also they haven't utilized Cook properly yet either, although they tried in the 2nd half.
Packmaniac
September 21, 2016 at 07:59 am
Evolve or die. I have no further comment
croatpackfan
September 21, 2016 at 08:04 am
MIchelle, I know that offense is not good, but it is not truth that WR or personel group is not winning their one on ones. Last game we saw so many receivers laft alone on the field like ghosts and Aaron did not throw the ball to them... I think the problem is not in Mike McCarthy play calling, offensive plan or execution. I think problem is somehwere else what keeping Aaron Rodgers out of game, because I do not saw him in the game for almost one year. I saw a man looks like Aaron, but less capable at QB.
Is this signs of broken relation with MM, or with some other players or with, I do not know whomsoever it does not matter. My opinion is that Aaron became opposition to Mike McCarthy at the moment when MM took back playcalling from Aaron's friend Tom Clements last season. Somehow, all those problems starteted at the same time...
But, who knows...
lecko
September 21, 2016 at 03:58 pm
So true croat, bok .
I also watched some crutialn possesions last year on All22 tapes. There were times when Janis was alone, around goal line, Aaron saw him and instead threw to well covered Adams. It was not once and after seeing that repeatedly , in the last game vs MIN he djdnt want to trhrow to wide open Davis It made me throw up when I heared about "you need to earn Aarons trust". To me this was like almost on purpose underminin team goals because some personal preferences. I wish Davante to develop into good QB but all statistical data from PFF and similar and experts say after 2 years show he is in the last 10 recivers who caught at least 50 passes.
carusotrap
September 21, 2016 at 08:05 am
Great article.
If your personnel cannot execute your scheme, you have three choices...
1. Keep working on it.
They've been "cleaning things up" for 14 games. The Titanic has sailed on this one.
2. Change players.
It's Ted Thompson. He's rearranging the deck chairs.
3. Change scheme.
It's Mike McCarthy. He thinks if he keeps steering the same course, the icebergs will move on their own.
So, now what do we do? Enjoy the view and listen to the string quartet, it seems. It's still our ship, after all.
Handsback
September 21, 2016 at 08:19 am
I didn't check, but has anybody looked at the defenses ? The reason being...I think teams are using 1 high safety and loading the box. If that's the case...then they are asking for Rodgers to beat them and not Lacy.
I saw some of the passing plays and most had 8 men in the box. (Which may be why Green Bay is throwing more than running the ball.)
It may be that Rodgers is now hamstrung with an ineffective offense.
Good article, Michelle!
Finwiz
September 21, 2016 at 10:32 am
Handsback, 100% correct!! They were daring Rodgers to beat them deep or outside the hashes, and right now they don't have the receivers to do that, especially with Jordy less than 100%. It's so obvious to me now. Zimmer had a great game plan.
fthisJack
September 21, 2016 at 08:22 am
you forgot 4...... maybe the crew needs to be replaced!
pacman
September 21, 2016 at 08:34 am
MM doesn't change unless he is forced to. He is the problem. Took him years to change special teams until we lost the playoff game because of it. Then he changed many coaches - just a general shakeup because he had to do 'something'. This is not good coaching - this is reactionary. Head coach needs to stay in front of the change curve.
That being said, AR seems to have lost something over the last 16 games. If he can't get together with MM to figure this out, someone has to go and it isn't going to be AR in his prime years.
Then TT mixes in and replaces punter without even a tryout. I guess we can now wait for a bad punt at the wrong time. Then the Sitton release. Is TT interested in winning a SB while he has the players - doesn't look like it. Looks like his focus is to keep the team competitive for next year.
This is the problem of a team without an owner. Sometimes it's good, sometimes bad. This is the bad side of it.
All in all, the Packers have the talent but it is not performing. That's on the coach - period.
We are not head coaches and I'm sure it is a tough, high pressure job. But the team is stale, would have gone nowhere without AR outperforming, yet we seem to just repeat the same things.
Lastly, did you see AR's press conference after the game. He looked depressed. Why wasn't he angry (mostly at himself). Where's the fire?
lecko
September 21, 2016 at 08:36 am
Is it OK post links to other media here ? Another analysis from washingtonpost , based on PFF data.. Rodgers is among least effective QBs this season, also receivers...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2016/09/20/no-time-to-r-e-...
staffordsneckfat
September 21, 2016 at 09:56 am
2 road games.
Nice sample size Washington Post.
jeremyjjbrown
September 21, 2016 at 12:51 pm
It goes back a lot further. Basically in the last 14 games Rodgers is comparable to Blaine Gabbert. It's fine to call out small sample size, but I would check the larger sample size first to see if it contradicts.
staffordsneckfat
September 21, 2016 at 05:11 pm
How about the "larger sample size" that is his career?
Take two road games and try to draw a conclusion like that article did is so selective I'd consider it irresponsible journalism.
Anything to sell a paper.
jeremyjjbrown
September 21, 2016 at 07:45 pm
So your saying he's living up to his career standard for preformance?
Anyways, they are discussing what's happening now, otherwise known as the news.
staffordsneckfat
September 22, 2016 at 09:06 am
You said you would check the larger sample size first to see if it contradicts.
I checked the larg(est) sample size: his career.
It contradicts.
Since'61
September 21, 2016 at 09:01 am
Michelle - nice article. I basically made the same points in one of my posts yesterday, specifically that the up tempo/no huddle offense is preventing the Packers from diversifying the offense and utilizing other players like Rip, Abby and Montgomery. Opposing DCs have figured out pretty much what the Packers are going to do based on down and distance etc. However, that doesn't explain Rodger's poor play. He is not seeing open receivers and even when he does he has been making poor throws either too high or too low. While I agree that the Packers need to work more players into the offense and not use the no huddle exclusively, regardless of what they do they need to get Aaron Rodgers back and playing well again. If Rodgers is going to dance around and skip and throw off his back foot like he's been doing the offense will not succeed regardless of who they bring in. It will also not stop these ridiculous communication problems that waste timeouts and cause delay of game penalties. I don't understand why MM and the coaching staff can't get this fixed. This is a professional team consistently having high school football problems. No excuses. Thanks, Since '61
lecko
September 21, 2016 at 09:07 am
I just wish that coaches would do what coaches should do. After 1 fumble LAcy is bnched, Starks is bnched.. But no talking about respnsibility in this case by Mike Mccarthy. After 3 fumbles and 1 INT he should be benched just for a drive or two. Maybe this would wake him up ? And depending on the results afgter playing with Hundley, coaches woul get part of the answer, is it a scheme or QB or others.
TarynsEyes
September 21, 2016 at 09:19 am
If you bench Rodgers for a possession or two, you better be willing and ready for a permanent change via the shit storm from Rodgers and players taking sides along with some coaches.
lecko
September 21, 2016 at 09:59 am
Why, arent the players at least in theory "equal" ? If benching RBs and WR, why not QB ? If benching is too much of public punishment,, I hope that they dare to tel him in meeting that ball security must be improved.
dobber
September 21, 2016 at 10:17 am
"And depending on the results afgter playing with Hundley, coaches woul get part of the answer, is it a scheme or QB or others."
What would you expect to get? Throw out a QB with no NFL regular season snaps and that no teams have meaningful film on. He might look good in limited action, but then what? What do you really learn?
lecko
September 21, 2016 at 03:26 pm
You are correct, it is questionable if such change would do something. But I think some kind of change is needed. Its been 14 games witrh bad QB rating and Iits not only QB, also receivers, line, coaches are responsible for QB rating. I am no football expert but it happend last year, it is again these year: several experts and analysts are wting colums that PAckers scheme no longer works, it needs to be tweeke to allow receivers to get open more easily (like bunches fomation, movement, crossing routes). But it seem sto me they havent chaged much the scheme, it is still uptempo, 3 WR running isolatio routes. There are Nelson and Cook new additions , but reslults ar enot better. And again Mccarty spoe about trusting the porcess today: "He’s the most trusted player that I’ve ever coached and I continue to believe that we’ll just keep pounding away at our process and good things will happen.” But after saying and doing this foir more than a year it slowly reminds me of other quote, from mr. Einsten: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." So my personal expectations are there will be no major scheme change. Jordy and Cook will integrate better and their playmaking together with improved defense and easier schedule will still provide another playoff place. But I dont expect Aarins qB rating to be much over 95 for the season. And as some posters wrote it is not much fun to watc this ofense struggle.
Thegreatreynoldo
September 21, 2016 at 10:04 pm
The narrative is running away with you. AR does not have 14 straight games of bad QB play or bad rating. Quite a few of those ratings were in the 90s. A 95 rating is a good rating, even in this QB stat-infllated era.
That said, I have been as critical of AR for longer than most here on this site. I remember writing in 2014 that he was starting to look like a diva, and that I was tired of the trust crap.
egbertsouse
September 21, 2016 at 09:14 am
MM's offense is an "my talent can whip your talent" kind of offense where players need to win one-on-one battles. We used to have that kind of talent. Now, we have 80% Jordy, a Cobb that has lost something over the years, Dropvante Adams (nuff said), a talented but under-achiever TE, a fat, slow RB (I don't care about that PX90 b.s., he still looks fat), and a QB who isn't in synch with any of them.
I'm not saying they're a horrible team. They still have the ability to beat up crap teams and squeeze a win out occasionally against a pretty good team but they cannot hang in there with contenders. They probably will get 9 or 10 wins and back into the playoffs somehow.
If they want to beat the elites, either MM has to acknowledge his reduced talent and revise the O to maximize what talent he has, or Tightwad Ted is going to have to open the wallet and buy some players at the skill positions that can win the one-on-ones.
Either way, it will not be a quick fix
rdent
September 21, 2016 at 09:40 am
I agree,look at last year,with Nelson out,Cobb couldn't be the man,nor could Adams and McCarthy wouldn't give Janis or Abberdaris a try until he had to in the playoff game at Arizona and imo they lit it up.abtw was it just me or didn't MM this off season harp about having big targets over the middle? Seems that I've seen way more of that from the Jags and Viking's
dobber
September 21, 2016 at 10:11 am
"McCarthy wouldn't give Janis or Abberdaris a try until he had to in the playoff game at Arizona and imo they lit it up."
What?!? The Packer offense lit nothing up against the Cardinals in that playoff game. Janis had 7 catches for 145 yards, but aside from two hail-mary's in the last two minutes, he was 5 for 40. Abbrederis was 4 for 55. RRod was comparable: 5 for 45. For players who had double-digit targets, both Janis and Abbrederis were decidedly average in that game. Take away the two hail mary's and Lacy's 60-yard run, and the Packers had about 240 yards of total offense...they weren't lighting anything up. We need to stop glorifying Abbrederis and Janis based on that performance. The Arizona defense was very good, and that had a lot to do with the flow of that game, but it was the Packer defense that played well enough to hold Arizona down and keep that game in reach. It was not an offensive slugfest. It was a defensive battle.
fastmoving
September 21, 2016 at 01:34 pm
janis makes always plays, whenever and wherever getting a chance. most if not all wr on our team will never have a playoffgame like that.
how can you take away the 2 low percent hail marys? you have to make them and against guys like petersen.
if you take rodgers 3 biggest plays from last season away he is probably the 45 best qb in the nfl last year....
Big_Mel_75
September 21, 2016 at 09:38 am
Remember what TT's and MM goal is to only make the playoffs. If they do that they won't lose their job. MM needs to be fired and TT to retire!! The talent on this team is there, coaching and scheme is holding them back.
WinUSA
September 21, 2016 at 10:18 am
Sigh.... Where is the good ol' West Coast Offense? This team has receivers that would THRIVE in the West Coast Offense.
Let the opponents put 8 in the box against us. You think that any DB could stop Aberrderas from getting open within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage?
Or get in front of Cook slanting?
Or blitzing with Cobb receiving the ball on a screen?
The only way to slow down a D is to make them think!
We have to establish the fear of a pass to open up the run contrary to establish the run to open up the pass.
An for GOD's sake...we are on the 2 yard line going for it on 4th down.... what the hell happened to the naked bootleg that Favre use to run so often?
Minnesota's D was packed in the middle it was like a funnel- that they were DARING us to run. They NEVER even entertained that we might do something different.
And they were ABSOLUTELY right!
Right now we don't give the opponent's defense a damn thing to think about.
Finwiz
September 21, 2016 at 10:25 am
I disagree WinUSA, with the box packed with defenders within 7-10 yards of LOS, and a single safety high, they were committed to stopping the run, AND taking away the quick slants, forcing Rodgers into holding the ball longer for passes outside the hashes. In retrospect, this was a brilliant scheme by Zimmer or their defensive coordinator, but if Jordy is 100% you isolate him in man coverage against Waynes and make their defense look silly. Problem is, they doubled Jordy a lot when he was iso'd on Waynes and that removed him, and Cobb and the idiot Devonte were no threat. We got beat! Pure and simple - better team won on Sunday night.
WinUSA
September 21, 2016 at 11:25 am
Hey Fin...how ya doing today?
You have a good point when addressing the eight in the box and in some cases it does take away some of the short passes. But if the mindset is to stop the run as definitely was the case, then you fake the plow horse (Lacey) up the middle, the D then collapses toward the player and THEN you have the hash marks toward the middle susceptible to two receiver set on one side either for a pick on a defender or one stops five and the other 7. One DB or corner can't cover two. Our receivers might not be able to run a 4.37 40 but they are quick.
Rodgers needs some type of option to get rid of that ball quickly.
You are right about one thing. Zimmer had his D prepped for mundane offense he was facing for the day.
guzzi2000
September 21, 2016 at 11:50 am
Not sure why but when I look at the current state of the Pack the song by the Righteous Brothers "You've Lost That Loving Feeling" starts playing in my head. But the word loving has changed to winning.
Sorry my attempt at humor.
croatpackfan
September 21, 2016 at 12:05 pm
Nice analysis on this article. It is obvious that things are not good!
http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2016/9/21/12999884/packers-aaron-rodge...
lou
September 21, 2016 at 12:30 pm
There is plenty of time to turn the season around, the quick start last year was great but Wade Phillips put an end to that quickly, hopefully this season they finish like they started last season. It is almost inconceivable but it looks to me like Rodgers has lost confidence, hard to imagine for a multi MVP Winner but right now it looks like these are his primary options;
1. Look for 12 men on the field with a quick snap count.
2. Try to get a "free play" with the hard snap count".
3. Try to locate the most covered WR and throw it up to get a pass interference penalty.
It has sadly evolved to that instead of "I can made a big play".
Pack204
September 21, 2016 at 12:54 pm
I like to use the Patriots as the prime example. They are always prepared and well coached and ready to play. Designing a specific gameplan for every opponent on how to take advantage of mismatches and personnel groupings. Look at all the different formations they use to keep the defense off balance and create matchup nightmares for the opposing team. There is no reason with Rodgers and those WR and TE they can't do this.
At some point there will be a breaking point where the team ascends and starts to evolve the offense more OR hits absolute rock bottom and people will lose jobs and a new regime will take over. Only time will tell....
Tundraboy
September 21, 2016 at 01:11 pm
Nothing really to add to all the posts. Just about everything that needed to be said has. Lets hope things change, someone on the staff wakes up soon.
One thing I will say is that if a month ago anyone told me that Montgomery would be ok I would have been thrilled, but if you also told me that even then after keeping 7 WRs we did not immediately make him any part of the offense, I would have thought you were crazy. This all is just crazy.
al bundy
September 21, 2016 at 06:34 pm
Ok were using the same play book for the past five years. We all are aware mike plays favorites. He knows who writes his checks and davate adams is starting because ted picked him high, thus ted must know he is good?
This has been the mantra for this team since the super bowl so why in the hell would you use the logic, we can have abbey and janis and whomever is the third running back, play too. It wont happen because mike changes nothing.
all the teams know our plays better then our guys.
Point-Packer
September 21, 2016 at 06:57 pm
50/50 chance MM is gone next year.
4thand1
September 21, 2016 at 07:41 pm
THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY! DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS! IS MM INSANE OR JUST STUBBORN AND PIG HEADED? OK enough yelling.
RCPackerFan
September 22, 2016 at 07:24 am
exactly...
It was interesting listening to Mike and Mike this morning they had Brian Billick on. He said that he believes that one of the problems with Packers is the no huddle. He said it doesn't fit what they have for players.
What is funny is with all the talk by the fans about them, we are now hearing experts (former players/coaches) saying the same things that us fans have been saying.
PETER MAIZ
September 21, 2016 at 08:09 pm
I think Rodgers and McCarthy don't see eye to eye now on a strategy to follow. Forget this year if McCarthy doesn't adapt and I doubt he will. Even the Lions will be a menace.
Handsback
September 22, 2016 at 09:10 am
Everything that is being pointed out in these comments are opinions. We aren't coaches or players and don't know exactly what and why it is happening. We see that Rodgers isn't playing a very high level. We can compare with previous seasons when he played like he was the best QB ever. So we have to figure it's coaching, supporting players, or even rodgers himself.
I suspect it's a little bit of everything. The Oline wasn't pass protecting like they should, the WRs weren't running routes like the should, MM not attacking the middle of the field like he said they needed to during the off-season, and Rodger's mechanics weren't where they should be.
Why after 4 pre-season games weren't these issues ironed out? (Bradford had no trouble with a quick 2 weeks of practice.)
Here is what I think has happened....(didn't stay at a HI Express so these opinions may be very flawed.)
MM wanted to start fast last year and the team did. The problem was they were flat at the end of the season and that hurt them in the playoffs. So this year, MM knew the start wasn't as important as a great finish so he wanted to make sure injuries were at a minimum coming out of camp and the team could/would have a slow start, but with their schedule they could finish strong for the playoffs. That said, he's pointing to the playoffs and will gradually see the team obtain a better sense of perfection as the season rolls on. While it may not make a lot of sense, you can't take a team and expect them to play at a high level for 16 weeks and maintain that through the playoffs with the goal of winning the SB. I have played sports, but was never a coach. I did help my Dad train horses and you never rush them to their peak in june or July, you keep getting them better until they are at their peak in Aug/Sept when the championships are held. I know stupid analogy, but as a player we did the same thing in football and lacrosse.