Giants 24 Packers 22: Game Balls & Lame Calls
Giants continue their history of torturing the Pack..
By KenLass
There’s something about playing the New York football Giants that brings out the worst in the Green Bay Packers. The Giants knocked the Packers out of the playoffs in 2007 in Brett Favre’s last game in the green and gold. They did it again in 2011. They upset Green Bay in London last year, and Monday night at MetLife stadium they repeated history, bringing a screeching halt to Green Bay’s three game win streak.
The defeat should also silence playoff talk for the time being. Sure, the team is still very much in the hunt, but any unit that plays as badly as the Packers did in this game had better focus on recovering it’s poise and execution before worrying about making hotel reservations in January.
Using youth and inexperience as excuses for this pitiful display is wearing thin. This team was good enough to beat Detroit on the road. Good enough to knock off the defending Super Bowl champions. They should have been more than good enough to dispatch a team playing its third string quarterback, and which ranked near the bottom of the league in nearly all categories.
Even when Giants running back Saquon Barkley gift wrapped the game with an unforced fumble in the final four minutes, allowing Green Bay to score the go ahead touchdown with 1:33 left to play, the defense collapsed and couldn’t close. It was a heartbreaking but fitting end to a game the Packers had no business winning.
Jordan Love, who handled blitzes so well during the win streak, was clearly rattled by a steady diet of extra rushers from the Giants. He came out throwing wild high and didn’t settle down until the second half. Even when New York throttled back to a four man rush in the final quarter, the offensive line couldn’t keep the pressure off its nervous quarterback. Receivers juggled passes, the defense missed tackles and couldn’t cover, special teams were a disaster, play calling was abominable.
For the first time in five weeks, Green Bay really felt the impact from the absence of its injured starters. If I were to ask you to name the five best players on the team, not including Jordan Love, chances are you would list Aaron Jones, Jaire Alexander, Christian Watson, Quay Walker and David Bakhtiari. All five were out. Green Bay’s weakness at each of their positions was exposed in this game.
So who are the real Packers? Stay tuned.
GAME BALLS
Tucker Kraft
The rookie tight end made a couple of key plays to give his team a chance. He dragged a defender with him for a few crucial extra yards to get a much needed first down in the fouirth quarter. Then later in the fourth he broke a tackle and gashed the defense for a 43 yard reception. He had a nice grab on an out pattern in the red zone on Green Bay’s final touchdown drive. He finished with four catches, and his 64 total receiving yards led the team.
Malik Heath
Pressed into more playing time because of the injury to Watson, Heath responded with a terrific effort on the late touchdown catch, controlling the ball with his fingers and twisting his body to extend the ball over the goal line. It was sweet atonement after officials ruled he didn’t secure a catch long enough in the end zone on the previous play.
Honorable mention to Carrington Valentine, who was alert enough to scoop the Barkley fumble and return it to the New York 38 yard line. He didn’t give up on the play and assume Barkley would be ruled down. Jayden Reed caught eight passes but didn’t really do much with them, totaling just 27 receiving yards. He did rush for 38, including a 16 yard score off a jet sweep. Isaiah McDuffie, filling in for Walker, led the defense with seven stops, including a tackle for loss on Barkley, and then teaming up with Eric Wilson to stone Barkley on 4th and 1.
LAME CALLS
Special Teams Mistakes
Valentine with a blind side block on punt return, Daniel Whelan’s short punt causing Rudy Ford to get called for catch interference when he couldn’t locate the ball, Keisean Nixon muffed a punt, fell on it, then inexplicably got up and tried to run, fumbled it again and lost it. Anders Carlson missed a 45 yard field goal try that, as it turned out, would have made the difference in the game. Green Bay’s special teams units are getting worse with each game, and there doesn’t seem to be anything the coaching staff can do about it.
Pass Rush Misses
The Packers’ pass rush was buzzing around Tommy De Vito all night but not only did they fail to get to him, they allowed him to escape the pocket and run for 71 yards, including a critical 26 yard scamper to the one that set up a Barkley touchdown. De Vito had been sacked 26 times by previous opponents. Green Bay didn’t get a single one.
Play Calling
After Reed ran the jet sweep for a score early on, Matt LaFleur kept calling it over and over again, even though the Giants had clearly adjusted and were stuffing the play for a loss. LaFleur called it again on the critical two point try after the final touchdown and, of course, it was crushed. The Packers coach has obviously fallen in love with that play but enough is enough. Also, let’s put the trick plays on the shelf for awhile. The reverses and flea flicker attempts were so poorly executed they resembled slapstick comedy.
THREE AND OUT
-- The hit of the night was delivered by De’Vondre Campbell, who obliterated Wan’Dale Robinson behind the line of scrimmage on a quick receiver screen. Campbell had a decent game, finishing with six tackles, second best on the defense. Although he was somehow tasked with covering speedy receiver Wan'Dale Robinson on a long pass and lost him when the ball was under thrown.
-- On one defensive play TJ Slaton timed the snap perfectly and lunged into the Giants backfield completely unblocked, only to totally whiff on the tackle, as running back Matt Breida turned the play into a first down conversion. It was that kind of night.
-- I have zero trust in this defense’s ability to close out a game. They actually should have blown three other opportunities besides this one. The Saints missed a last minute field goal, the Chargers had a receiver drop a long pass that would have been a go ahead touchdown, and Valentine got away with a no call on pass interference against the Chiefs. Monday night Nixon got beat in coverage by Robinson and this time the pass was completed for the dagger, setting up the walk off field goal. Joe Barry’s defense has its good moments, but none of them come at the end of the game when they are most needed.
PLEASE SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHEESEHEAD NATION WEEKLY NEWSLETTER HERE.
__________________________
Ken Lass is a former Green Bay television sports anchor and 43 year media veteran, a lifelong Packers fan, and a shareholder.
__________________________
Comments (151)
TKWorldWide
December 12, 2023 at 07:10 am
Multiple disappointments, but a decent reminder of how football games are won and lost.
Cheesey51
December 12, 2023 at 07:27 am
Poor adjustments by the D
No Spy on Tommy D
Playing 10 ydsoff on the last series assured a winning FG
On offemse, MLF play calling was dominated by “Winks” D
NJ-RICK
December 12, 2023 at 07:19 am
If you can't beat the lowly 4-8 NY Giants with a 3rd string QB you have no business even talking about being a playoff team. Last night the Packers were clearly out played & out coached, a total embarrassment on national TV. This team is young, inexperienced and lacks talent. It all starts at the top Nags, I want a new GM next year I don't want Gute making anymore draft selections. Plus the team is in salary cap hell for the next two seasons... Time to clean house in the front office. It all begins at the top. I've already given up on this years team I'm looking forward to next season under new MGT.
Since'75
December 12, 2023 at 07:35 am
Rick makes a good point i've said for decades.....
Championships are won from the top down.
************************
10 stupid people with nothing to say....Go figure right 🤷♂️🙄
Sorry, you brought it 🍼👶🏻
What's your counterpoint?...Championships are won from the bottom up?
I'll say it.....MORONS!!
murf7777
December 12, 2023 at 08:08 am
For those who want the house cleaned, I ask them this question. Let’s say you are the VP of a division in a large company and you are responsible for driving the sales of said division. Now, let’s assume you lost some of your top salespeople, in fact, your top two rain makers for most or all of the year. Also, you are showing that you are grooming some up and comers to be really good. Would you like your boss lto evaluate you based on those salespeople being there for the full year when they weren’t? My guess is no…….maybe you should give the boys on top a break and understand that this program has a bright future and the reason is because of the top down, not despite them.
Green Bay Shareholder
December 12, 2023 at 12:13 pm
Zero real businesses would be run like this organization - heads would've rolled last year. No company would allow itself to be so beholding to 1 individual like Rodgers unless it was pure incompetence. As well, no real business could possibly survive with an employee based on rookies or 2nd year men with zero veteran presence. To even imagine this would be a plan would be a fire able offense in the corporate world. I manage a multi million dollar company full of industry vets and a sprinkling of new talent. Love had been dealt a pretty raw deal by this staff - Favre and Rodgers had so much more to work with when they started. The emotions are running high because I think a lot of fans thought this team had turned the corner and were playoff bound, which obviously they haven't. Which was very evident by some very, very repetitive mistakes from the coaching staff / play calling / defensive scheme / mental mistakes / performance lapses / penalties etc. in every phase of the game.
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 12:23 pm
I've always challenged the notion of fire everybody, blow it up, etc. Starting from nothing is not an improvement.
Regardless of roster, certain inadequacies persist. They were still there in glorious wins, and when I pointed them out people here were perturbed. It's easier to point them out when they cost you wins, but the underlying issue remains the same.
In-game adjustment remains a foreign language. I don't know what would have been the ideal adjustment to DeVito's elusiveness in the pocket, but he was allowed to do the same thing over and over again. That he could also complete passes on the run in addition to just throwing isn't so much on the pass rush, but there has to be an answer to it and it's related to NY using 6 O linemen.
Simultaneously NY was pressuring JL to such an extent he was largely ineffective. Some sort of pass pro adjustment was needed, although in fairness to our coaches, players still need to execute. Judicious use of double teams might have helped but you can't double team everybody, somebody has to win their 1-on-1 matchup.
If MLF had total control of hiring and firing every other coach that'd be one thing, but he doesn't. Neither does Gutey. People were actually talking about "giving JB flowers," and I wanted to puke. Hopefully there's no more talk of that, but there are greater weaknesses on this coaching staff and his initials are Butkus. This game was lost in the trenches. With everyone else contributing to the loss.
crolson1964
December 12, 2023 at 06:25 pm
Ive been sing this tune for along time. Get rid of Butkus and get Campen back!!
Booner
December 12, 2023 at 09:43 am
The Pack won't be relevant until Murphy Gute and MLF are gone! It all starts there!
cdoemel
December 12, 2023 at 04:26 pm
Whoever says GB doesn’t have talented players is either blind or just full of hate. Because the talent is obviously there. And BG is the reason. So just stfu please, whiners.
Coldworld
December 12, 2023 at 09:45 am
If the problem you saw was lack of talent, we watched a different game. What I saw was a horrendously prepared team and game plans on both O and D and a refusal to learn or adapt in game.
Of course we’ve seen exactly this many times with these coaches. We’ve seen ongoing problems excused or ignored through seasons and beyond. When it doesn’t go right we blame execution and do so again when it repeats.
This was as true with Rodgers, Adams and co as last night. It’s not the roster that’s the issue it’s how we handle it. This is what a LaFleur led team will be, however good the roster. We have tried and tested it long enough. Now is the time to move on.
jannesbjornson
December 12, 2023 at 10:11 am
If Gutedkunst believed in his team, he would not have traded the starting CB. The guy laid his chips on players with high RAS, low football skills. Belichick didn't draft Walker for a reason. The 2023 draft will probably save his butt. The only question mark is Wooten over a RB. Let Rhyan start and see how he fairs. Myers was on skates against big bulls like Dexter Lawrence, the guy he should have move up for in lieu of Savage. So it goes. As long as this group is in town, expect nothing in the way of a legitimate SB quest.
LLCHESTY
December 12, 2023 at 12:16 pm
Lawrence was drafted 17th, Savage 21st. Gutey had already given up two 4ths to move up 9 spots, how much more did you want him to give up?
jannesbjornson
December 13, 2023 at 11:19 am
2019 #3 & toss in 2020#3,or #2
fireball
December 12, 2023 at 07:27 am
Wow, back to day 1 again, starting from scratch. Just a miserable game.
Will everyone, please, stop talking about a playoff spot?
Untylu1968
December 12, 2023 at 08:41 am
Why? They can still make the playoffs..
fireball
December 12, 2023 at 10:23 am
Statistically, that is true.
MainePackFan
December 12, 2023 at 11:52 am
That's the problem when fans let themselves get caught up in the roller coaster. This team is what their record says they are. Never as good as the hype suggested, nor or they as bad as some suggest just because they lost. It's up to you if you want to ride the roller coaster.
Personally, considering the injuries, I would have been shocked if they went into NY and blew this team out. The playoffs are certainly still a very good possibility, and this team still has a ton of potential.
It's kind of like watching your 90-year old Grandma. Some days she seems pretty sharp, and then she jumps in her Buick Lesabre with one foot on the brake and one foot on the gas, accidently hits the gas when she meant to hit the brake, crashes through the entrance of a Denny's, and can't understand why she can't get a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk.
You still love the old girl, but if you're not ready for a wild ride, you oughta think twice about jumping in the car ; )
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 12:46 pm
I'm struggling to find application for your analogy. Certain basics like solid, consistent fundamentals are not to be found from this coaching staff. Exactly who needs to be replaced is not 100% clear to me, but at this point it is rather like trying to get a gallon of milk at Denny's.
JB has one defensive strategy, and it's appropriate for certain situations. He doesn't have what's needed in any other situation.
Our O line was permitted to have terrible footwork for many weeks, then with winning 4 out of 5 including against some of the league's best D linemen I wondered if maybe that had all been fixed. As much as our O line got beat, I have to think it wasn't really fixed and Butkus has to go immediately, even if he's not replaced. Stenovitch was at least good as O line coach. As OC I'm not sure what he does with MLF calling plays, but the combination of these three is not a long term answer. MLF as OC might work, and Stenovitch as O line position coach would. HC needs to be focused on bigger matters including player selection, in-game adjustments and clock management. Those are all MLF weaknesses, at least while he's the playcaller.
The contributions of our TEs isn't terrible, but it's not like the speed of their progress is stunning, either. They deserve a TE coach who has played TE. I don't know what position coach should have added more than just a bull rush to LVN's repertoire, but he's suspect too. WRs dropped 0 passes and have improved, but is Vrable really doing a good job?
Strength and conditioning staff has been bad for years.
All of that can be turned over without disrupting so much that you no longer have a team. Not addressing any of it would be a terrible idea.
MainePackFan
December 12, 2023 at 01:29 pm
"I'm struggling to find application for your analogy."
SST,
Sometimes the Packers are pretty damn sharp. Sometimes they seem unstable and crash into a Dennys. You still love them, but it's a wild ride.
If I need to explain it, then probably it wasn't a very good analogy : )
Lol. 2 days ago everyone had the Packers overtaking the Lions. Now we're back to the "Lafleur is a bum, the coaches suck, this team is going nowhere" nonsense because we lost an NFL game.
Stay tuned for the overreaction in the next episode of "The Days of Our Packer Lives" ; )
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 12:09 pm
Because one game is the end of the world.
Packerpasty
December 12, 2023 at 04:50 pm
whats the big deal about making playoffs anyway, does anyone think they can compete with Dallas or the Niners, or Eagles in a big game...or even the Lions who would be out for revenge....not me...not this year...
LambeauPlain
December 12, 2023 at 07:31 am
"Joe Barry’s defense has its good moments...".
Even the stomach flu has its good moments...until the nausea comes back again.
Same with Barry. His best coaching moments are when he isn't tasked with doing it.
Absolutely no HC in the NFL would have hired this incompetent clown after his 2 year failure as DC for the Washington Commies. Washington strangely gave him an another shot after Barry's HC Father in law made him a crony DC hire in Detroit and two disastrous years there...including the 0-16 season.
But MLF not just hires him and watches him fail for his 6th consecutive year of incompetence...unlike Detroit and Washington...he retains him for a 3rd year!
I hope some D leaders surrounded MFL on the long plane ride to Austin Stroebel and deplored him to replace this embarrassing DC...because they got humiliated AGAIN last night...on national TV.
Since'75
December 12, 2023 at 07:33 am
We can critique the Packers blunders as the reason for the loss. But here's the thing.....
The Giants had their share of blunders also.
Random....Who would have thought the Giants would march down the field 57 yards with 1:33 left on the clock?
I know i didn't.
MOST disappointing....
The lack of pressure getting to Devito.
Gary had 1 QB hit but other than that, was pretty much silent.
Was Preston Smith an 'inactive'? Sure seemed like it.
I'll repeat myself...For 12 million, he needs to provide more than a sack every 3rd game where we watch him pose and flex his muscles like an All-Pro.
Why that guy was resigned for so much money i don't know.
I'd rather see Van Ness starting for a fraction of the cost.
Additionally....
The 5th highest paid edge rusher Rashan Gary has 9 sacks, not elite, but respectable.
Here's the thing, in two games he had 6 sacks, 3 each (fantastic).
But, that means in the other 10 games he has collected only 3 sacks.
As i stated pre game....the Packers front 7 should have been Devito's nightmare last night, and they were largely a no show.
lou
December 12, 2023 at 08:11 am
The Packers front 7 made Devito look like a young Russell Wilson. How many QB draws do you need to see to decide to have a "spy" Mr. Barry ?
ImaPayne
December 12, 2023 at 01:37 pm
The spy guy is needed to help gang tackle after the giants receivers catch the ball in the open. That is barys defense.
One of our guys caught a ball and there were 6 giants surrounding him immediately for little gain. Yet they also had a pass rush on.
Since'75
December 12, 2023 at 03:23 pm
Yea Lou....
The edge rushers clearly over pursued on the outside, there was no contain.
Which also may help explain zero sacks.
MainePackFan
December 12, 2023 at 12:21 pm
"Who would have thought the Giants would march down the field 57 yards with 1:33 left on the clock?"
Since'75. You're kidding right ? Is this a rhetorical question? Why would we think otherwise? : )
Since'75
December 13, 2023 at 07:47 am
No, i'm not 'kidding'.
I was still expecting a win.
I still had a 1/2 glass full of kool aid left.
This is the Giants offense we're talking about, they average 13.3 PPG.
Do you know what that means?
They don't drive down the field and score very often.
I hope that helps. 😏🙄
ImaPayne
December 12, 2023 at 01:35 pm
I looked at the clock and said this will be easy for the Giants, plenty of time to either score a td or kick the winning field goal. The packers d hadnt shown up all night so how the hell were they going to stop them.
It took all of three plays and about 25 seconds to get into field goal position.
Anyone who thought the game was over and the pack would stop the Giants wasnt watching this fiasco all night long.
NickPerry
December 12, 2023 at 05:09 pm
WHY do you only come here after a Packers loss?
Fucking Vikings Fans...
Go drool over your NFC North Banners...LOSER!!!!
It's all you have!
zoellner25
December 12, 2023 at 07:40 am
Worst quality NFL game I think I've ever seen. This team drank its own KoolAid all week, and didn't look like they prepared or cared much at all. Frustrating part for me, the vet players play like bad rookies too often (Keisean, Gary, Savage), etc. Embarrassing on MNF
Razer
December 12, 2023 at 08:14 am
...Worst quality NFL game I think I've ever seen...
So true. Poor broadcast, poor fundamentals and a comedy of errors. The Giants and Packers of old are turning in their graves.
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 12:53 pm
Just because there were a combined total of 5 fumbles?
No, the comedy of errors has a much longer list than just that, but it's one obvious issue.
murf7777
December 12, 2023 at 08:15 am
What do you expect from a very young team without its best stars. They didn’t look great but that is what young and average teams look like from time to time, that’s why they are average. I think expectations are just way to high for this team that is doing much better than many would’ve predicted this year, especially if they predicted with the knowledge that Bak wouldn’t play, Jaire, AJ, Watson, your other top CB was traded mid year, top safety and other CB not playing much at all, I can go on and on. Those aren’t just average player missing time. Personally, I enjoy watching this team working their butts off and doing better than I thought while having a possibility of making the playoffs.
Packerpasty
December 12, 2023 at 09:24 am
I expect a whole lot better than last night...they didnt have all the "stars" during the win streak, and im not so sure they will ever have Jones or Watson much anymore...
Coldworld
December 12, 2023 at 09:51 am
What do you expect from LaFleur, Barry and Butkus. Regular examples of games like last night.
Why? Because they have occurred regularly throughout their tenure and in very similar ways against the same opponents as well, with very different rosters.
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2023 at 10:40 am
looks like losing Watson is a bigger deal then we could have anticipated.
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 12:57 pm
I don't think that's true. His contributions are huge schematically, but there were 0 drops last night. There are other good WRs.
I think other factors explain the 2 point loss better. Most important is how they play the rest of the season ...
GPG!
Since'75
December 13, 2023 at 08:02 am
What did we expect?
Gee, I don't know......
The same execution and effort we saw against the Lions and Chiefs when the Packers were missing some of their "stars".
Although i did find your comment amusing, especially what you define as "stars"
Do you really think Christian Watson is a star?
Is Eric Stokes....a star?
I'll look for them in the Pro Bowl.
Packerpasty
December 12, 2023 at 09:22 am
there have been a few stinkers in the league this season and this ranks right up there near the top...back to reality..
cben67
December 12, 2023 at 07:42 am
Lame Call: The executives at ESPN\ABC who decided that the extended split screen views of the Dolphins game were a good idea.
Guam
December 12, 2023 at 07:48 am
Yeah, that annoyed me too.
RedRight49
December 12, 2023 at 07:54 am
Amen!
Amen again!
The oft repeated split screen was disruptive and made watching the Packers' game very difficult.
Barry's alleged defense also made watching the game very difficult!
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 12:59 pm
"alleged defense"
That's great! Right up there with "can the NFL award both teams a loss for this crime against football." Lol
Razer
December 12, 2023 at 08:04 am
ABC shouldn't be allowed to broadcast football. They diced up the broadcast so much the poor football product was unwatchable. Buck and Aikmen have checked out of calling games. They should be calling LIV games
davekenya
December 12, 2023 at 07:06 pm
I don't mind Aikman and Buck that much - to me they're at least fairly balanced and calm. I don't like that Buck's always so sycophantic to Aikman tho - just stand up and call your own game.
I liked Aikman's honesty in saying (Nixon?) had a late hit on the Devito slide rather than being a vanilla announcer and simply going with the calls on the field (whether you agree with the call or not).
I very much liked Aikman's 'on the spot' analysis of Love's deep incomplete underthrown end zone toss taking away a GB touchdown from an open Pack WR -- where he showed/pointed out how Love took an extra unnecessary hop and floating backwards before tossing the ball rather than planting his foot and throwing the ball more sharply with forward momentum. That was subtle but significant accurate real-time analysis.
For whatever reason, I like Chris Collingsworth most. It must be his sarcasm that I resonate with.
BTW -- is it just me or if you happen to be a former Dallas QB and want to do play-by-play you're signed up -- Dandy Don, Romo, Aikman. Has any other team had as many former QBs doing PBP?
lou
December 12, 2023 at 08:06 am
Agree, this isn't the 1960's & 70's where you had to walk up to the TV and turn the channel. Reminded me of the Heidi Game, the public outcry ended that process.
TKWorldWide
December 12, 2023 at 08:30 am
A thousand times yes! And a thousand thumbs down on that split screen! Or, as I call it, ADHDTV.
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2023 at 08:33 am
The worst!
If we wanted to watch the other game we would have went and watched it!
mrtundra
December 12, 2023 at 08:45 am
1000%!
White92
December 12, 2023 at 07:29 pm
I hate ESPN with the intensity of 1000 suns
NickPerry
December 12, 2023 at 07:48 am
Game Balls...Hmmm, that's a tough one. I mean there just wasn't much to warrant a "Game Ball" IMO.
Heath... I was really happy for the kid. He couldn't hang on to the 1st pass but more than made up with it.
AJ Dillon... Dillon ran HARD again last night. It's not his fault LaFleur went away from him for the most part.
Kraft... Can't wait to watch these guys next year and for years after as they continue to grow.
Lame Calls...
MLF play calling... Do I REALLY need to bring up examples?
LaFleur SHOWING his frustration... We get it, you're frustrated with your teams performance. But damn LaFleur, don't have that look on your face like you just took a bite out a huge shit sandwich.
Joe Barry... Do I really need to bring up examples on this putz? I will go to my grave one day while watching Joe Barry's 2 man front (2 down linemen & 2 OLBs). And YES Matt LaFleur, it's a TWO man front. Especially when Gary is crashing down inside on every fucking play. Do these coaches actually coach DURING the game? Seriously??
Big Lame Call...Nick Perry (ME)... I actually said yesterday or the day before in a comment that Matt LaFleur deserved to coach this team in 2024...
IMO LaFleur is going to be here no matter what next season. I can live with that, mostly because I honestly believe LaFleur, Murphy, and probably Gute are all going to get that final year under Mark Murphy. But Joe Barry doesn't deserve to be back. He was made to look like a FOOL last night by yet another dump truck 3rd string QB. It was Zappe all over again from last season.
I knew this season would be a roller coaster but I still got sucked in with the way they've played the last several weeks. No matter what happens moving forward, I'm happy with the progress of Love and these other youngsters. Last night he was able to get them in the endzone for what appeared to be the win. THAT'S progress.
murf7777
December 12, 2023 at 08:30 am
“Big Lame Call...Nick Perry (ME)... I actually said yesterday or the day before in a comment that Matt LaFleur deserved to coach this team in 2024...“
This is the problem with many fans, not just GB. They let their emotions get the best of them and base their opinions on in season trends, vs looking at the big picture of the whole year and how the future looks. They are consistently, inconsistent.
I have to say it’s amusing reading comments after losing vs winning. They reality is it’s rarely as good or bad as it looks, especially when watching live. It’s also reality that having the benefit of hindsight is easy to be critical. It’s also reality that the other team can make great plays as well and make your team look bad doing it. Lastly, it’s also reality that an average team like GB just played another average team and they can win or lose any of them.
Last week, while many were riding the high wave and predicting 10 or even 11 wins, I predicted they would finish 9-8 or 8-9 and I think that looks fairly accurate.
MainePackFan
December 12, 2023 at 12:30 pm
Spot on murf!!!!
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 01:31 pm
Murf,
just pointing out there's a difference between predicting and stating what we'd like to see. For example, I didn't want to see our team go out there and completely suck. I'd think everybody in the organization had to realize that's exactly what happened. They also have to realize that some plays went well and there were more of those than during the slump. They need to study the film to see what they need to improve, and not beat themselves up over past mistakes so they can do their best on Sunday. How they engage this process will both build and shape character, for better or worse.
A culture of winning emerges when everybody does this well. I have no opinion of MLF re: this aspect of being a HC. It's entirely separate from the other strengths and weaknesses we've seen from him. It's also more important than during his previous years in GB due to the reduced player leadership.
A specific is our pass rush generated pressure constantly, but DeVito successfully eluded it. How can we expect MLF to have a hand in any necessary in-game adjustment when he calls the same end around for Reed to run 7 times? How many times did it work vs not? He needed to adjust, and didn't. I don't think HC is his best role, but he might be good as an OC as long as the HC brings him back in line when he needs it. Obviously JB isn't a genius with in-game adjustments either, and needed to adjust something to account for DeVito somehow. #7 as spy would have been nice but in lieu of that option, doing nothing can't be expected to work. He also needed to adjust for the extra pass pro NY called up.
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2023 at 08:43 am
"IMO LaFleur is going to be here no matter what next season. I can live with that, mostly because I honestly believe LaFleur, Murphy, and probably Gute are all going to get that final year under Mark Murphy. But Joe Barry doesn't deserve to be back. He was made to look like a FOOL last night by yet another dump truck 3rd string QB. It was Zappe all over again from last season."
LaFleur proved he is a good coach. Last night game had to do more with the young players making mistakes rather then anything that LaFleur did. Love had a subpar game. He didn't look comfortable most of the night. To many errant throws and miscommunications in the passing game.
Barry though. That was embarrassing. Enough is enough. Its time to make sure he doesn't come back.
Coldworld
December 12, 2023 at 10:04 am
No, LaFleur has not proved he’s a good coach when it matters, in terms of game plans and adjustments on offense of in his capacity as the hirer of coaches and managing their ongoing issues. For the second year running he had to admit, after first blaming the players, that he and Barry got totally out coached. They did, before and during the game.
We can either accept Groundhog Day every season and just question when the LaFleur coaching blunders will kill us, or we can clean house and culture while this roster is still young.
jannesbjornson
December 12, 2023 at 10:23 am
The 2 pt conversion call would get many coaches shit-canned the following day. "Entertainment" and Betting is now the name of the Game.
LLCHESTY
December 12, 2023 at 12:22 pm
"The 2 pt conversion call would get many coaches shit-canned the following day."
This is a lie. Overreact much?
.
jannesbjornson
December 12, 2023 at 01:10 pm
Ask Mc Daniels and Frank Reich. Maybe Hackett gets another in-season shuffle out the door.
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2023 at 10:25 am
I get a downvote and Coldworld shows up. weird right.
murf7777
December 12, 2023 at 10:29 am
Nope, his narrative is the only right one and it gets pounded into these blogs daily for years. Thank god he isn’t the President of the Packers.
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2023 at 10:33 am
If people like CW and many others were the President of the Packers, I am pretty sure the Packers would have been sold and moved to London by now.
Ferrari-Driver
December 12, 2023 at 12:47 pm
My wife down voted me just this morning...twice.
Regarding you...No down vote for you. Overall you make very good contributions, so keep it up.
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 01:46 pm
CW,
does MLF have the position of hirer of coaches and managing their issues? Or does all of that go up to Ball and / or MM?
Also, MLF has the very quirky combination of coming up with game plans that sometimes work, and being unable to adjust when they do not. If he were collaborating with OC and assistant HC effectively, you'd think they could adjust. At least at halftime, preferably even during the game.
MainePackFan
December 12, 2023 at 12:37 pm
"LaFleur proved he is a good coach. Last night game had to do more with the young players making mistakes rather then anything that LaFleur did. Love had a subpar game. He didn't look comfortable most of the night. To many errant throws and miscommunications in the passing game."
Exactly. So many times receivers were schemed open and Jordan missed them. I did appreciate the way JL didn't quit though. He wasn't at his best, but it was good enough to win had the defense done their job at the end of the game.
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2023 at 12:45 pm
I thought it was great to see Love turn it around. To me that was one of the positives from the game.
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 01:52 pm
Yes!
Very odd that the first 3 plays went well, and JL came unraveled after that. Obviously something was wrong, I don't know what.
The ability to gut it out and return with something speaks well to their ability to do their best the rest of the season. That's much more important than having one bad night.
GPG
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 01:49 pm
MPF,
the O line was part of that equation. They got beat.
MainePackFan
December 12, 2023 at 02:52 pm
True SST, but the Giants O-line got beat constantly too, yet their QB connected on 81% of his passes no picks and ran for 71 yards. The line wasn't good , but Jordan had plenty of open looks.
The whole team played like crap. The Giants came to play. The Packers did exactly what we hoped they wouldn't. They overlooked the Giants and it bit them in the ass. Hopefully they learned a lesson.
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 01:40 pm
I'm not ready to commit to MLF being good as HC. I've never called for his immediate replacement, and I've always seen some failings as well as strengths. OTOH JB made his presence felt quickly upon arriving in GB, and that was all bad. His one defensive strategy is ok in one situation, winning with a lead. That works better near the end of games.
I have to wonder if MLF might be good as OC, or even possibly as HC if playcalling were handled by the OC. Every one of his strengths fits under the job description of an OC, while every one of his weaknesses is part of the job description for HC. So I think he'd be better as OC. He certainly can't do everything he tries to. In game adjustments, player selection, and clock management are just too much for him while he's also the playcaller.
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 01:11 pm
Nick,
welcome back. While I'm not in favor of firing everybody, it's beyond clear that some changes do need to be made to the coaching staff before this becomes a dominant team. Replace the most obvious in the off-season, see how the rest do next year, and know what further changes need to be made for 2025 to go right. I tend to think changing no more than necessary is more successful, and am not sure if MLF needs to be on the scrap pile.
Our players? As much as they individually stunk up the joint last night, it's one bad game. If they can just keep doing their best, I'm not worried about that part of the organization at all. Who's playing hurt and less than their best I do not know, but I have to think that's a factor. Getting some starters back at 100% would be a thing.
I can still hope for games comfortably ahead enough to be an opportunity to test depth including on the O line. That would really help Gutey draft well. I do wonder how much he talks with coaches about players getting snaps.
Guam
December 12, 2023 at 07:58 am
I was a very unhappy Packet fan during the game but afterwards realized this game was just the product of having the youngest team in the league. Lots of bonehead young mistakes. The largest mistake was Nixon's - just fall on the damn ball! I remember being taught in Peewee football to never try to pick up a loose ball - just cover it up and secure the ball.
The Packers still have a good shot at playing 500 ball this season and I would be satisfied with that given our youth.
Razer
December 12, 2023 at 08:28 am
I was all-in on the young team looking for improvement approach to the season. I still am for the most part. What bothers me the most is the "putting players in a position to succeed" lip service that we keep hearing. What about teaching the O-line and RB some fundamental power football stuff instead of ticky-tacky million moving parts wizardry. The players didn't execute but the coaches are the real limits for this team
Guam
December 12, 2023 at 10:08 am
There certainly seems to be little emphasis on fundamentals with this coaching staff. MLF's teams never seem to do the basics well.
Packerpasty
December 12, 2023 at 09:26 am
I cant wait till next season ....I am so sick of this "young" bullshit...its just a poor excuse this far into the season...
Guam
December 12, 2023 at 10:14 am
I guess you don't remember being 23 and working in your first professional work environment. I've hired many college graduates and it usually takes them at least a year to be useful. Have some patience...
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 01:58 pm
A boss has his new employee change a lightbulb. The employee protests, "but I'm a College graduate!"
The boss replies, "I forgot. Here, let me show you how."
Guam
December 12, 2023 at 04:22 pm
LOL. Isn't that the truth.
ImaPayne
December 12, 2023 at 01:31 pm
There is a huge difference from being young and smart and someone that learns the right things to do and can execute and being young and too stupid to learn what the coaches are saying.
Your problem, you'll find this team is still young next year and still making mistakes. Its not youth that's the problem its lack of smarts.
One player fails to fall on the ball and secure it. One player runs right into the ball catcher and one grabs the guy by the wrist and tries to do the "not me" routine when it was caught on camera and he did it. This is stupidity not youth
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 02:00 pm
Don't forget one player failing to run out of bounds when it's sorely needed. TWICE.
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 01:55 pm
Guam,
coaching played a role in this loss. I can't say how much was coaches vs players, but both contributed to the loss.
Razer
December 12, 2023 at 08:01 am
Early in the year, with a young team, I could watch a sloppy Packers game and look for the glimmers of hope and improvement. I couldn't watch that poor excuse for football from two bad teams. When my expectations went up my tolerance for poor coaching, poor design and poor execution went down. I even tried to get past the awful ABC presentation of the game but that was just as painful as the game
Maybe this reality check is a good thing. This is a young team with some promise but it is not a good team. It is not a well coached team that plays sound fundamental football. It is not a stout or tough team that imposes its will. We are an enthusiastic lot that throws scheme and secondhand Kyle Shannahan magic at you hoping that you will bite on the trickery.
Fix the O-line so that we can run the ball. Get a couple of good backs who have vision and agility who can run the ball. Make people respect that ability. Fix the D-line so that we can collapse the pocket from the inside out. Overall a little less finesse and more power football. I don't know that this coaching staff has anything but fancy and soft in their binders.
Spock
December 12, 2023 at 08:05 am
"LaFleur called it again on the critical two point try after the final touchdown and, of course, it was crushed. The Packers coach has obviously fallen in love with that play but enough is enough. Also, let’s put the trick plays on the shelf for a while. The reverses and flea flicker attempts were so poorly executed they resembled slapstick comedy." Yeah, EVERYONE in the stadium and watching at home knew MLF was going to try his favorite play for that two point conversion try; I even said to my wife, "He's gone to that end around play WAY too often at that well's been run dry. What an absolutely bizarre game with just plain 'weirdness' on almost every play series. I was expecting up and down GAMES in the season, but the rollercoaster up and down PLAYS in one game were unreal.
Razer
December 12, 2023 at 08:39 am
...Also, let’s put the trick plays on the shelf for a while...
Amen a thousand times. I think that this is LaFleur and his style. It is not what I appreciate in a game. The Packers keep entrenching themselves as a finesse team and I am more of a power football fan. We move a thousand parts to gain 3 yards and are not very good at it.
...What an absolutely bizarre game with just plain 'weirdness' on almost every play series...
The game was mostly unwatchable. Yes, these are rebuild teams but these are poorly coached rebuild teams.
jannesbjornson
December 12, 2023 at 10:27 am
Love was on fire at the end of the game and he takes the ball out of his hands.
PackfanNY
December 12, 2023 at 08:09 am
I am a Rashan Gary fan. However, last night, against a very bad Offensive Line the guy was invisible. With big money comes big expectations. No excuses. Preston Smith didn’t exactly show out either. The pass rush was not good and routinely let Devitto escape the pocket.
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 02:10 pm
In order for DeVito to need to escape, he needed to be pressured. He was pressured almost constantly, and P Smith was usually right in the thick of it as he has been all year. I can't speak to R Gary, other than he was prominent in several pressures.
Why they couldn't turn all that pressure into a single sack I do not know, but I think this is what a spy is for. I think one coach or another had the responsibility to adjust somehow, and utterly failed to do so. Whether that starts with JB or someone else, he and MLF are culpable at some point. RB doesn't get a pass, either.
I grew up watching Joe Namath, and "fourth and long" meant 25+ yards. GB made DeVito look like Namath reincarnated. Obviously he played better than expected. If he's no better than before or has actually improved will be interesting to see ...
stockholder
December 12, 2023 at 08:10 am
No one stopped De Vito.
Getting away from Dillion and going
With P. Taylor and J Reed.
Tells me that Dillion is just too slow.
Love him all you want. But a speedy
Durable back will change this offense.
And maybe MLFs play calling.
As far as the NB. Problem not solved.
Razer
December 12, 2023 at 08:50 am
...Tells me that Dillion is just too slow.
Love him all you want. But a speedy
Durable back will change this offense...
Fundamentally agree with you. Yes, Dillon plays hard and I love that about him. He has poor vision, stops to make his cuts, stops his legs on contact and usually goes down with the first tackler. What does it tell you when your go-to play for short yardage is the WR end-around instead of your 250 lbs RB pounding the rock.
T7Steve
December 12, 2023 at 09:33 am
"What does it tell you when your go-to play for short yardage is the WR end-around instead of your 250 lbs RB pounding the rock."
Tells you that you don't have an O-line. "Let's run the tickle your tush play." "Don't push them, finesse them." "Don't move them, try to trick them."
Coldworld
December 12, 2023 at 10:08 am
Taylor averaged 7 plus yards a carry. We went away from him too. Yes, the OL was horrendous, but it has been poor most of the year despite the constant defenses. Eventually that comes home to roost. It’s just this year’s Drayton, well along with the run D.
jannesbjornson
December 12, 2023 at 10:36 am
I'll take Dillon Johnson out of Washington and then bag another back before round four. No more stiffs and scrubs. A.Jones body is shot. Schmitz looked good as the Giants center. We all yapped about putting the rover on DeVito, but the D line fell for high school play fakes. Gary was unimpressive. They are still a DT short on the depth chart. Barry played some four down linemen and they controlled Barkley. He goes nickel-soft and the contain is chewed up. Does this guy know how to dial up a double go-go for the LBs? Bring a safety into DeVito's grill as he tended to release on his runs on his throwing side. Another 200 yard award for LH to mount on the mantle.
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 02:15 pm
#99 J Ford has been called up how many times? They aren't a DT short.
jannesbjornson
December 12, 2023 at 05:23 pm
If he was any good he would be on the 53.
crolson1964
December 12, 2023 at 06:39 pm
Don’t forget about Kenny Clark either, the guy is overrated big time
BruceC1960
December 12, 2023 at 08:13 am
Lost of good candidates, but which is the worst loss so far?
Giants- DeVito
Steelers- Picket
Falcons- Ridder
Raiders-Garapolo
Broncos-Wilson
We are in danger of finishing last in a weak division. Carolina is the only game I feel we will win?
Is it too late to tank?😳
Packerpasty
December 12, 2023 at 04:46 pm
and it wouldnt be shocking to see a Love show up on that list of journeymen mediocre QB's....not everyone is a HOF caliber QB, sadly...
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2023 at 08:26 am
Game Balls:
Kraft - I like that he is starting to get involved in downfield passing. I would like to see him get more opportunities in the redzone though.
Heath - He caught what should have been the game winning TD. But the soft defense allowed the Giants to march down the field and take the win.
Lame Calls:
Special Teams Mistakes -
This one is frustrating. The illegal blindside block was on Johnson. ANd he hit him in the front, so I'm not sure how that is a blindside block.
But my biggest problem with special teams was the Nixon play. They get the 3 and out stop, only to give them the ball where they did. All he has to do is lay on the ball. Live for the next play. That was the turning point in the game IMO. Carlson missed the FG which wasn't ideal, but it happens. Plays like Nixon can be prevented.
Joe Barry -
I get he is a bit handicapped with play calling and what he can do with the players he has especially at CB. But this is the 4th time in 13 games they have given up 200+ yards rushing. When the QB was running and running and running on them, he didn't adjust anything to stop him. And the final drive he played his soft defense, allowed easy passes underneath. They only needed a FG to win.
Three and Out:
- This offense clearly missed Watson. They have been able to get by without Jones. But they can't get by without Watson and Jones both.
- Wicks and Reed getting hurt by the end of the game is not a good thing. Especially when we are without Musgrave, Watson, Jones. Hopefully some of these guys can come back sooner then later.
- "I have zero trust in this defense’s ability to close out a game."
I have almost zero trust in the defensive play caller. I asked this question a few weeks ago. Is it Barry or the players? Because the last few games it felt more like the defensive front has taken over games more than anything. I hope this is the final straw in the Barry defense. i'm just done with it.
DoubleJ
December 12, 2023 at 09:50 am
"- "I have zero trust in this defense’s ability to close out a game."
I have almost zero trust in the defensive play caller. I asked this question a few weeks ago. Is it Barry or the players? Because the last few games it felt more like the defensive front has taken over games more than anything. I hope this is the final straw in the Barry defense. i'm just done with it."
The final drive was a microcosm of years of Barry as DC. The CBs were playing 10 yards off the WRs and then using bail technique. This allowed for the Giants to very quickly gain 20-25 yards. Not to mention the DL not getting any pressure when it really mattered.
Through the entire game the DL could not stay in their rush lanes. This too has been a common problem during Barry's time. How many times do we have to see the Edge players getting pressure but the DTs have been washed out or turning their shoulders and allowing an easy escape for the QB. If it wasn't that then it was the Edge players who got washed inside an not containing a QB who has shown mobility.
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2023 at 10:31 am
"The final drive was a microcosm of years of Barry as DC. The CBs were playing 10 yards off the WRs and then using bail technique. This allowed for the Giants to very quickly gain 20-25 yards."
This is exactly why i'm done with it. I saw Kurt Benkert on twitter showing the final drive. He said this is a QB's dream to be allowed this many wide open plays and soft coverages on the final drive.
jannesbjornson
December 12, 2023 at 01:19 pm
Kraft looked like he did for the Jackrabbits, dominating the seam routes and YAC. He is going to get Reed permanently injured with over-dosing on the the reverse action plays. Reed seemed disoriented in the endzone when he should have aimed for the pylon and get to Love's perfect toss. Wicks may be done for the season with a high ankle mess. Not sold on any of this coaching staff.
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 02:21 pm
I missed Wicks and Reed getting injured. They're our most consistently productive WRs, if they're out this is not an ideal time to break in depth. My vote is for Bo Melton, faster than #9.
How did Reed get injured?
RCPackerFan
December 12, 2023 at 02:25 pm
Reed was being evaluated for concussion.
i would assume Melton will be brought up for sure. Depending on what happens with Reed/Watson, I could even see them bring DuBose up.
TKWorldWide
December 12, 2023 at 08:37 am
I’m trying to get a grip on how to evaluate NFL defense in 2023.I don’t think the 85 Bears or the 2000 Ravens are coming back.
So: yards allowed? No.
Points allowed? That’s an important one.
Turnovers caused? Sacks? Hurries? Yards per rush? Number of 3 and outs?
I’m no sabermetrician, but I play one on CHTV.
How about: your team is holding a small lead late in the game. How confident are you that the D will get a stop? Still subjective, but possibly the most important thing a D can do.
Razer
December 12, 2023 at 09:13 am
...I’m no sabermetrician, but I play one on CHTV...
Ha, ha - I like it. It is hard in this modern NFL where a blindside block is full frontal. My metric is a little more fundamental. Make them earn it and make them pay. The Packers made the Giants earn it on those 4th down and short yardage situations and we held our own. Fear of the big play governs our approach rather than being in a position to make the big play
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 02:23 pm
Sabermetrician: the art of bringing a knife to a gun fight. SEE ALSO: JB specialty.
Handsback
December 12, 2023 at 08:43 am
On December 7th, I looked it up, I wrote that this would be a close game and the team with the ball last would win. Also said that either win or lose the Packers would learn from this game. I still think that this loss will impact the team in that they have to learn how to impact their will on EVERY team they play.
Now will the coaching staff learn their lesson from this game...I don't know. Please someone, anyone, tell me why you have under 2 minutes left that you line up in shotgun formations verses not ramming the ball down their throats. That leaving 30 seconds on the clock and not over 90 plus seconds on the clock would mean a better chance for a win!
I thought I saw panic in the Packers last drive to score that TD and not confidence. That is on the coaches.
JMHO
TKWorldWide
December 12, 2023 at 08:45 am
Pssst…any hints on what numbers to play in the lottery? Shhh!
BruceC1960
December 12, 2023 at 09:22 am
I agree. Nonsense to run uptempo on the last drive at their end. 2 minutes plus to go and 2 time outs.
murf7777
December 12, 2023 at 10:34 am
That nonsense resulted in a TD…What if the reason they scored was because they kept the personal of the Giants on the field so they could get mismatches they want to exploit? What if they didn’t do that they never scored the TD. Damn it, maybe just maybe it was very smart of Mlf to do just what he did.
BruceC1960
December 12, 2023 at 01:01 pm
Maybe Murf
jlc1
December 12, 2023 at 08:44 am
Perfect summary, especially about how the Pack has had a lot of good luck to get to 6 wins. And yes the defense is reliable in its failure to do what a winning defense must do.
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 02:26 pm
"Reliable failure"
Features prominently on JB's resume.
Lphill
December 12, 2023 at 08:50 am
Joe Barry made a high school QB look like a pro bowler, should be fired today.
LeotisHarris
December 12, 2023 at 09:33 am
Still riding that high school QB train? I can understand you not including the University of Illinois as a college football program, but the kid played at Syracuse, too. He made some nice throws and didn't hurt them, and took what the lack of defense gave him.
MainePackFan
December 12, 2023 at 12:47 pm
Agreed LH. The kid balled out, and the moment definitely wasn't too big.
KKB
December 12, 2023 at 09:40 am
Retaining Barry this year, is enough to convince me that MLF must go too.
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 02:28 pm
What input does MLF have on that decision? He can't fire him. Although he did publicly give his support ...
PackerBO
December 12, 2023 at 08:54 am
What a sloppy game!!! To me they looked like they were NOT ready to play. Period!!!! You are what your record says you are, an under 500 team. Can you really say the Packers played down to their opponent when they are only one game better than the Giants? I am very disappointed by how they played. I hate mental mistakes by the players and coaches.
LeotisHarris
December 12, 2023 at 08:59 am
Welp, upon further review, that game is still ruled a clusterf*ck. I am unable to offer any answers, but I do have questions and observations.
Rich Bisaccia is an assistant head coach and special teams coordinator of the most penalized ST unit in the NFL. For the most part, he escapes the "fire everyone" wrath of the fanbase. WTF?
Lame Call: How long are we going to be forced to watch Runyan and Walker flop around like sea lions on the ground after getting dump-trucked by middling defensive lineman?
What's with Campbell getting into position to make plays, and then watching the play continue past him? Shouldn't a former all-pro have some situational awareness?
We have QB Whisperer Tom Clements as QB Coach. Everyone from JT O'Sullivan to MIke Wahle has IDed the hitch in Love's footwork that is the root cause of his inaccurate throws. Fix it, FFS!
No, I don't think Joe Barry is a good DC, and I don't think he should have been retained after last year, but he's only one symptom of systemic failure.
I could feel that loss coming from the get-go last night. The Giants tried to give us the game, but we said no thank you.
Finally, again, NFL realty TV broadcasts make the game of football nearly unwatchable. I hate it.
jvole
December 12, 2023 at 09:49 am
I was wondering if someone would mention Runyan. He is excelling at being below average this year. Ok D-line look like pro-bowlers against him way too often. I wonder why he has regressed so much?
LeotisHarris
December 12, 2023 at 09:58 am
" He is excelling at being below average this year."
That's a terrific description.
Leatherhead
December 12, 2023 at 02:18 pm
Leotis, we could fair catch every punt and kick for the rest of the year, and never pick up a penalty or get an injury in the process. Problem solved.
Runyan and Walker are flopping around because we don't have anybody better. They're the starters until we get somebody better or they get broken. That most likely means the rest of the season. Fortunately, we have 5 picks in the Top 90 and could add some real beef up front.
Love's throwing motion appears to have him leaning back and arching the ball, as opposed to stepping forward and drilling it. It'll be addressed in the offseason.
We're a young team that 's not good enough to turn it over 4 times on the road and win, especially with guys out. We could still win next Sunday. We're not exactly playing some powerhouses down the stretch.
Your observation on Campbell has me checking. It appears that he's a $14 million cap hit in 2024, but about $10 million are in salary and bonuses, so the net cost of cutting/trading him isn't prohibitive.
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 02:43 pm
LH,
just like you point out that taking the fair catch would have improved our STs, #59 Campbell could also improve. He does a lot of things well, and film from last night doesn't just show "a bad night," but tendencies that will crop up but can be corrected.
Excellence in coaching can do that. I have no idea if that kind of ability is on staff, but that route seems like a better bet than adding to the list of draft needs.
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 02:34 pm
"We have QB Whisperer Tom Clements as QB Coach. Everyone from JT O'Sullivan to MIke Wahle has IDed the hitch in Love's footwork that is the root cause of his inaccurate throws. Fix it, FFS!"
Dak Prescott is an interesting contrast to this. That he can throw after two steps has been a revelation to him this season, and he's greatly improved.
I wonder how much simple stuff like this is involved with our O line getting beat last night, and if the recent wins really had any of that fixed, or what.
NFLfan
December 12, 2023 at 09:02 am
I had to look for Rashan Gary as well-I thought he was out. He seems to show off for several games and disappears in others; what's that about? Love was inaccurate most of the night. I thought Campbell tackled well by himself.
I turned it off early in the 3rd quarter as I refuse to watch or use bad products anymore.
I still think they were hung over...young guys, big city, lots of clubs; 5 miles from Manhattan. Until I hear otherwise, that's what I'm going with.
Razer
December 12, 2023 at 09:17 am
...young guys, big city, lots of clubs; 5 miles from Manhattan. Until I hear otherwise, that's what I'm going with...
Ha, ha - I like your roll-up. Does it apply to the coaches as well?
NFLfan
December 12, 2023 at 10:11 am
@ Razer-no one can coach hung-over dudes...reflexes are off, energy low, accuracy non-existent.
NFLfan
December 12, 2023 at 09:08 am
Slit screen was likely an attempt to engage viewers as TV execs knew the Packer-Giants game was boring and unwatchable. I turned if off.
I don't like Aiken but I could tell he was bored and a bit judgemental of the low level play as well.
Packerpasty
December 12, 2023 at 09:28 am
"PAY THE MAN"....well, perhaps it should be "PUMP THE BRAKES" on that one...let the season play out...the league is full of mediocre starters who win a few lose a few, as we will see one next game in Baker Mayfield...thats who Love reminds me of...capable at times but most likely inconsistent much as he was in college...
BAMABADGER
December 12, 2023 at 09:33 am
The Packers are the Giants' Bears. "They own us."
MooPack
December 12, 2023 at 09:36 am
Play Calling
"After Reed ran the jet sweep for a score early on, Matt LaFleur kept calling it over and over again, even though the Giants had clearly adjusted and were stuffing the play for a loss. LaFleur called it again on the critical two point try after the final touchdown and, of course, it was crushed. "
I swear I saw Admiral Ackbar in the stands behind LaFleur yelling something at him.
DoubleJ
December 12, 2023 at 09:43 am
"Play Calling
After Reed ran the jet sweep for a score early on, Matt LaFleur kept calling it over and over again, even though the Giants had clearly adjusted and were stuffing the play for a loss. LaFleur called it again on the critical two point try after the final touchdown and, of course, it was crushed. The Packers coach has obviously fallen in love with that play but enough is enough. Also, let’s put the trick plays on the shelf for awhile. The reverses and flea flicker attempts were so poorly executed they resembled slapstick comedy."
Throw in WR & RB screens to this as well. The Packers keep trying to run them but they absolutely SUCK at them. More times than not the screen at best in an incompletion. However, often it is a loss of yards as well. I think I have seen all of 1 successful screen all year and they try it every game and it fails.
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 02:49 pm
Screen plays are hard to run, everybody has to do everything right. Early in the season they didn't even try.
I'd much rather see a short gain, even just 2 or 3 yards, than a completed screen tackled for a loss. Yet they're a component of MLF's offense, and when they work they're a thing of beauty.
croatpackfan
December 12, 2023 at 09:43 am
I did not read all of your comments, but, despite this loss has bad taste in my mouth, I have to admitt I have a little bit different oppinion why Packers laid an egg.
When you knows that you can beat your opponent, becausae you are better team, sometimes inexperienced group of people, trying to avoid shame / blame is traying to achieve to much to the level of of overachievement that leads to failure. I believe this happened to this team. More experienced guys on both side of the ball, played as they should, but youngsters, afraid of mistakes performed with overthinking and played themselves to lot of mistake producing executions. unbalanced of those 2 groups produced chaos that complete team fails.
I agree with Tucker Kraft game ball, I would call McDuffie to ans both RBs. They were fighting with passion and at full speed. All others, and especially coaches do not deserves neither lame calls.
Few day ago I said that with first mistake Jordan Love will make, MLF will run back to his frighten outlook and reopen his preseason/college play book. Ideally suitable for opponent poor team. Hey MLF, where your courage went?
Joe Barry? Anything to add for those compilation of books of inept DC?
RIch Bisaccia? Do you really believe that he can overcome influence from HC on complete team (and his unit ST)?
Fish smells from head!
All I will tell on this subject.
Go Pack Go! You are young and learning. Try to avoid influence of your HC fears to develop yourself fully!
TxFred
December 12, 2023 at 09:56 am
Am so fed up, with TOTAL LACK of straight ahead power blocking. Hugging & holding.
WTF are shoulder pads used for in today " entertainment shit"?
Running between the tackles helps JL & his passing game.
The end around look "cute" not a steady diet.
Sends a big message to DC's this team WILL NOT RUN BLOCK BETWEEN THE TACKLES. Damn it.
Razer
December 12, 2023 at 10:20 am
...Am so fed up, with TOTAL LACK of straight ahead power blocking...
I hear you. I think that this is a mix of LaFleur and Gutekunst. Don't draft it - don't coach it.
ImaPayne
December 12, 2023 at 11:05 am
At least one good thing, we can all stop talking playoffs. That possibility ended last night and I think most of us knew the real packers would come down to earth and reality set in that this is just not a very good team young or old.
This was game 13 plus 3 pre season games so the youth on this team has been baptised and then some so we need to stop with "the youth movement" excuse. Our young guys aren't getting any faster, better tacklers, better blockers and better pass defenders just because next year is year two or three.
We got a team of basic average guys at best and this team is avg at best. there are no play makers on the team.
Jones, Watson, Alexander, Stokes are always hurt and missing the games you need them the most for.
They aint getting rid of Bary when he can say his two best defenders are out and he is strapped with hand me downs. How stupid are some of you. Bary is Gutts guy and he is going nowwhere
Packerpasty
December 12, 2023 at 11:47 am
your right...this "young" crap has to stop...especially with the QB..
TOMMY'63
December 12, 2023 at 11:11 am
Hello everyone, since most of us here on this blog,for several years , most of us have had enough of Joe Berry and the flower. I know its very difficult for my proposition to have any effect,. I want to propose a petition on this blog and all other blogs. If we can raise maybe 15.000- 30.000 signatures to send Joe Berry and his assistants home for good, calling to send home the flower might be too much to ask for. If we can raise 30.000-50.000 signatures from packer fans throughout our blogs,not only through the blogs. The malls,taverns,bars,restaurants throughout Wisconsin, Upper peninsula, Eastern Minnesota and send the petition to 1265 Lombardy ave, to president Murphy himself, to get rid of these clowns that we have as coaches. What do you all think? Can it be possible to make a petition with thousands and thousands of signatures to get this coaching circus of clowns out of gb? Let me know what you all think. Petitions with thousands of signatures did many things in politics,who knows? The front office will keep lafleur and company for years if we don't organise to rid these clowns.
harleycops
December 12, 2023 at 11:27 am
Where do I sign?
croatpackfan
December 12, 2023 at 11:38 am
Count on me!
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 02:54 pm
Count me in.
The problem with the strategy is our problems start with Mike Murphy. He's not someone to turn to for solutions. There's a board that is. (Executive board?)
harleycops
December 12, 2023 at 11:26 am
Does LaFleuzy read any of these comments? Does he coach with blinders on? Can't he see what's destroying this team? He's got buffoon players who consistently & persistently make bonehead plays. He's got a defense who can't stop a BIG 10 college team. Barry was a loser when he was hired (2 previous crappy coaching stops). And LF doesn't have the huckleberries to pink slip him. Where are the team leaders who should speak up and speak out to these NFL kids that this is real time now, not flag football. They get paid zillions every game and this is how they play? How 'bout docking players for bonehead plays and give their $$ back to hold then accountable. Bet they don't play this horrible the next week! Of course, that would so cruel to the bleeding hearts!
LLCHESTY
December 12, 2023 at 12:33 pm
"Does LaFleuzy read any of these comments?"
I sure hope not!
NFLfan
December 12, 2023 at 11:47 am
Matt seems anxious when Christian Watson is out. I don't think he trusts Doubs with the long ball so my recommendation is to sign a more durable, reliable deep ball threat to augment Watson as he is essentially available 40%. (give or take)
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 03:06 pm
Easier said than done. FA money is not within the cap until 2025. If Reed and Wicks are out, that removes our most consistently productive WRs. Neither can play the MVS role, #9 can. Bo Melton is on the PS, and faster than #9; call him up!
High percentage plays should be the focus, passes to Kraft and Dillon. For deeper throws, the more different receivers JL throws to, the less successful he'll be. He needs a strong connection with fewer. Other than Watson Reed and Wicks, (preparing for the worst, if none come back) we've still got Bo Melton, Simore Toure, Heath, DuBose and Doubs. More than needed, and all are talented.
I'm not convinced Doubs and Heath aren't enough at WR, and use more TE and RB. That would be a different strategy, and well suited for December.
NFLfan
December 12, 2023 at 04:32 pm
I don't think Matt agrees w/you. He likes the Adam's and Watsons to keep the opponent's D pre-occupied.
SicSemperTyrannis
December 12, 2023 at 03:14 pm
Ken,
a substantial correction. Valentine tackled someone who was looking right at him. That's not a blind side block, despite the penalty.
Others have said Rudy Ford's ST penalty was on the punt returner. I can see this as a traffic accident where you hit someone from behind but it was unavoidable; you're determined at fault anyway. I'm less sure of the details on this one. Valentine plays hard and commits penalties. This one wasn't right, but didn't decide the game. GB lost that one fair and square.