Eyes Front: Viking Game is Packers’ Final Exam
We'll learn a lot about Green Bay's future on New Year's Eve.
It’s hard to think of a Packers game this season that will be as revealing as New Year’s Eve in Minnesota.
It will determine if Green Bay keeps its playoffs hopes alive or plays its last meaningful game of the year. More important, it will provide a true indicator of how much progress has been made in the post-Rodgers era. We’ve seen the offense at its best and worst. We’ve seen the defense at its best and it’s still the worst.
With everything on the line, we’ll see if the coaching staff has this young team ready to be physical but disciplined, with a game plan designed to neutralize the Vikings strengths and attack their weak points. And a plan that is flexible when something isn’t working.
With everything on the line, we’ll see if Jordan Love continues his solid, poised and generally smart play. His stats are nice, but he needs to be a playmaker when it counts, when the pressure is at its most intense.
And with everything on the line, we’ll see if a roster dotted with several high draft picks plays up to its potential. The flashes have been there, the consistency has not.
In short, Sunday’s game is a final exam on how much confidence we can have in the Packers going forward. Not just in the players, but the coaches and the front office. They don’t have to win; the Vikings are talented and well-coached, even without Kirk Cousins. But the Packers need to demonstrate that when it counts they can at least be competitive, if not the team we saw recently against the Lions and the Chiefs. If the team that shows up is the one we witnessed against the Giants and Bucs — and in many ways the Panthers — there can be no excuses and it will be time to blow some stuff up.
Statistically, the Vikings and Packers rank similarly in total team DVOA, with Minnesota at 17th and Green Bay at 21st. On offense the Packers have the edge, 10th vs. 21st, but this gap would be different had the Vikings not lost Cousins for the year and Justin Jefferson for much of it.
Not surprisingly, the big difference is on defense, where Brian Flores’ squad ranks 5th, while Joe Barry’s is 30th. The Packers have their work cut out.
Green Bay managed only 10 points in late October against Flores’ aggressive scheme, which features a consistent pre-snap look and then can surprise by either dropping several players back into coverage or blitzing. The best antidote will be a big day from Aaron Jones, who was absent when the teams met at Lambeau. In fact, Love led the team in rushing that day with 34 yards. The offensive line will need to put on their big boy run-blocking pants.
But Love *does* need to run. His poise in the pocket is admirable, and we certainly don’t want a quarterback who panics early and scrambles around like a Russell Wilson without its head. But Love is sometimes guilty of leaving decent yardage on the table by not taking off when the opportunity presents itself. This needs to be a day of heavy play action, and even some RPO to give Love options to use his legs. Tucker Kraft should figure heavily in intermediate passes over the middle. All of this will be important to keep Minnesota’s offense off the field as much as possible, because, well, Joe Barry.
With Jaire Alexander suspended and Justin Jefferson back from injury, the Packers secondary will be tested yet again. Maybe Eric Stokes steps up. Maybe Darnell Savage is healthy enough to tackle people. The Packers at least get a break with TJ Hockenson out, and a mediocre Vikings running game.
But we know all too well what happens when Barry over-compensates to protect against explosive plays. The linebackers must have a solid game; it would be great to see Enagbare break out with a difference-making performance. Meanwhile, the Packers must pressure Jaren Hall, an untested rookie, enough to disrupt him.
As Ms. Underwood might say, waiting all weekend for Sunday night.
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Jonathan Krim grew up in New York but got hooked on the Packers — and on hating the Cowboys — watching the Ice Bowl as a young child. He blames bouts of unhappiness in his late teens on Dan Devine. A journalist for several decades who now lives in California, he enjoys trafficking in obscure cultural references, lame dad jokes and occasionally preposterous takes. Jonathan is a Packers shareholder, and insists on kraut with his brats. You can follow Jonathan on twitter at @Jkrim.
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Comments (97)
arthurl
December 29, 2023 at 06:34 am
My take is the team has played the season and the takeaways have already been established as follows;
- Love is a legitimate QB
- Gute had a great draft and the offense will be fine, talent wise moving forward
- What can we say about the defense other than it sucks. Drafting all those early picks hasn’t returned the investment
- ML and Barry, hopefully gone
- Team hires the right coach, the talent is there to make some noise next season
Packers2020
December 29, 2023 at 08:19 am
ML will not be gone.
He and Gute stay until Murphy is gone in 2025.
Untylu1968
December 29, 2023 at 09:36 am
You're 100% correct! Get ourselves a good D coordinator, and we're back in the hunt for the division next year.
SoCalJim
December 29, 2023 at 10:14 am
I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re right about this, but I sure hope they’re both gone. Barry should never be allowed to be a DC; MFL just isn’t the answer for the Packers.
LambeauPlain
December 29, 2023 at 01:13 pm
MLF is a good Offensive Coordinator. His talent is going to earn him a lot of money in the NFL.
Head Coach may not be his best fit. The Head Coach has to make difficult decisions regarding players and staff to improve performance. That requires organizational change.
MLF seems very resistant to organizational change...especially when players or coaches need to be replaced. Great Head Coaches can do this. And while it is not fun, it is necessary.
Like Wade Phillips, Norv Turner, etc...MLF may be a very good NFL Coordinator...but the "Peter Principle" in action as HC.
Since'75
December 29, 2023 at 07:15 pm
Packers2020 is absolutely correct.
Gute and MLF just got extended a year or so ago.
And there are no guarantee's for changes in 2025 sans Murphy.
Especially if Murphy promotes from within.
TVOR
WestCoastPackerBacker
December 29, 2023 at 12:50 pm
There’s really no chance they fire the head coach. After what he has done for the development of the young players on offense, the last thing they need is a new coach bringing in a new offensive system for Jordan Love’s second year as a starter. Love needs to continue to grow, in what looks very much like a successful offense. Where they really need change is on the defensive side of the ball. If we don’t see that happen very soon after the Bears game, then we will really have a reason to complain.
SicSemperTyrannis
December 29, 2023 at 06:40 am
The last game of the season is against da Bares, this can't possibly be the final exam. GB is probably eliminated from the playoffs with a loss, but that Bears game would still be meaningful. Divisional rivalries always are, and many surprisingly great games have been played by teams in their final game of the season with no chance to make the playoffs.
Football is about winning. This game is unique, as every game is. Hopefully they play like they did in KC, I'm not sure where that team went?
Coldworld
December 29, 2023 at 08:23 am
My thought exactly. No game against the Bears is ever unimportant, no matter whether there are post season implications.
dobber
December 29, 2023 at 10:56 am
The bottom line is that the Packers can help undo a lot of the progress made this year in Chicago by humiliating the Bears next week, magnifying negative public sentiment, and forcing management to clean house....especially if the Bears lose to Atlanta this week.
Yes, they have a lot of draft capital, but changing coaches and schemes will make a lot of the recent procurements bad fits, and they'll draft to fill holes rather than build.
LLCHESTY
December 29, 2023 at 03:49 pm
Are you saying get Eberflus fired so the Packers can hire him as DC? Not sure that's possible but I like the way you think!
T7Steve
December 29, 2023 at 07:16 am
Time to shine.
Forget about last week or the weeks before. This is a division game.
Continue owning the division this week. It started on Thanksgiving and it's time for it to be set in stone. I don't even mind the teams so much as their fans unless it's the Bears.
Handsback
December 29, 2023 at 07:23 am
This team and coaching staff has two major tests, one to see if they are good enough for the playoffs, and the other to see if they have learned to play at a level that will make the playoffs in the future.
It really is learning how to play at a level of excellence on a consistent basis. The last three weeks they seem to struggle with that. Coaches , preparedness, injuries, effort, toughness, all play a role in the players make up on game day. The next two games will tell us if they need more schooling or ready for next year
JMHO
NickPerry
December 29, 2023 at 07:25 am
"It will determine if Green Bay keeps its playoffs hopes alive or plays its last meaningful game of the year. More important, it will provide a true indicator of how much progress has been made in the post-Rodgers era."
Progress?
I think we can safely say the Defense has taken huge steps backwards this year. Another #1 Draft pick spent on that side of the ball. Another bottom of the league finish defensively.
Offensively I think we should all be pleased regardless what happens Sunday night. I also think we need to wait and see exactly who Love will have to throw to Sunday night. Will Watson be back? What about Reed and Wicks?
I'm not going to wig out if the Packers lose and Toure is Loves #1 WR due to injuries throughout the line-up.
I just want to get to the end of the season with the players we know who want to be here and will be vital to the success of the 2024 Packers not get injured.
Johnblood27
December 29, 2023 at 07:48 am
Nick, I absolutely HATE the concept of "playing to NOT get injured".
I hate it in TC and OTA's, I hate it in exhibition games and I hate it in games that actually count in the league standings.
I kinda hate it all the freakin time.
It has been a season of learning and growing, some together and some apart, you all know who I am talking about.
JLove is legit.
GBP WR are china dolls, THAT must change for this team to be any better than they were this year. RB will be in flux, no telling where that train will go. TE has been a revelation. Both of the draft picks are legit and I hope that the HC of the GBP next season sees that and designs an offense that actually takes advantage of that fact to allow the TE to contribute and also allow the realization by the defense that the TE are threats to allow the WR more room to operate (if proper routes are designed and are complementary).
GBP needs a couple of good solid OL-men that can come in and compete for PT in OTA's and TC and then translate that into regular season snaps. PLEASE bring in a legit center!
Defense for another day.
I have not been posting much. I hope to do more after this season as the cycle spins on and on...
10ve 💚
December 29, 2023 at 08:22 am
I'm with you Johnblood!
Also, thank you VERY MUCH for using "complementary" correctly. 😀
Too many people like to use the "i" letter... even the authors here frequently use "complimentary football"... who the hell do they want to compliment! (in the comments, it is understandable, we type fast, auto-correct comes into the picture... but the authors are expected to do it right)
T7Steve
December 29, 2023 at 08:42 am
I wish I could compliment the D after this game. THAT will be complimentary football!
LambeauPlain
December 29, 2023 at 09:55 am
" I hope to do more after this season as the cycle spins on and on..."
Thanks for the warning, JB:-))
Happy New Year!
Houndog
December 29, 2023 at 07:28 am
Good morning,
Thanks for the article, Jonathan, always happy to see someone else's take on things.
I'll start by saying that I think this game says less about the "post-Rodgers era" and more about the recovery of being thrown under the bus by LaFleur three weeks ago and now the fiasco of the past 5 days.
What I see is a lot of "If's" and "Maybe's" mixed in with even more of what the Packers "Should do", "Must Do", and "Need to Do's" to even have a chance, and I agree, but to some degree you're preaching to the choir. Most of us on this site already know these things. We bitch about it every week.
Maybe I'm wrong, or too filled with pessimism and aggravation, but I'm seeing more trepidation than optimism in your writing. If I'm right then you and I agree again, I'm not at all optimistic for this game.
One could argue that the defense has already thrown in the towel due to Barry's complete incompetence, but there's no arguing that there's a lack of leadership on this team, from top to bottom, that's crystal clear.
From my perspective I think this game is more about whether or not he's lost the team and when the Post-LaFleur era might start.
Sunday should give us some insight into what that verdict might be.
Coldworld
December 29, 2023 at 08:30 am
Hall is very mobile, maybe not quite Fields, but he’s more so than DiVito. He’s got a good arm. Despite being raw, he’s perhaps better when plays break down. I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up running by both by design and under pressure as he seems to process slowly.
jannesbjornson
December 29, 2023 at 10:44 am
O'Connell will probably get Chandler, the 4.3 running back 1:1 on a Barry LB in the screens and short passing game. He can take it to the house if he gets the corner. Jefferson and Company are salivating watching Film of Green Bay's secondary. Why would the team rally around these coaches? Maybe A.Jones can spark the offense and Love gets time to unleash an Air Raid attack. LaFleur will probably open up with three dive plays for the 3 and Out?? Love needs to call his own shots in this contest.
dobber
December 29, 2023 at 11:08 am
Mattison is trending toward playing, and O'Connell seems to like the undynamic plodder.
The Vikings are beat up right now and throwing a rookie on his second NFL start. This is as good an opportunity as the Packers are going to have.
Play the old Bears' 5-man front, jam the run lanes, get pressure, take your chances. Maybe Hall will run for a couple big gainers, but all of these MN QBs are going to toss up pick-able passes.
jannesbjornson
December 29, 2023 at 01:41 pm
He's not as free-wheeling as Mullens. He will point the ball to Jefferson and Osborn could have a 100 yard game against a Swiss cheese zone. The only way the Pack prevails is to get a Big Lead.
Since'75
December 29, 2023 at 08:35 am
I've been seeing maybe's, if's, couldas, wouldas, shouldas since the SB over the Steelers.
Since'75
December 29, 2023 at 07:42 am
It seems like the Vikings are folding up their tent for the season and taking a look at what 5th round pick Jaren Hall might have to offer.
I wouldn't be surprised if some of the vikings star players are on a pitch count the last two games, maybe some not even playing the last game.
I don't bet often, maybe once a year i'll lay it down.
It's time again, i'm going with the Packers plus 2 for 5 large.
Houndog
December 29, 2023 at 08:03 am
Since'75
"i'm going with the Packers plus 2 for 5 large"
Wow! Really, 5 Large?
It's too bad LaFleur doesn't have balls the size of yours, or even just a pair.
Coldworld
December 29, 2023 at 08:34 am
The Vikings are still not out of the playoffs, they need to win. Hall is a high upside low floor, if older prospect who they wanted to go with earlier, but he got concussed when they tried.
He’s in because they realized neither of the other backups were good enough and to see what they might have in Hall for next year. They aren’t mailing it in this week, going with Hall is actually a more aggressive gambit.
Since'75
December 29, 2023 at 08:38 am
Hall is a developmental player with a history of concussions.
Week 17 with the playoffs in reach is no time to play him.
Unless of course, your the Vikings.
Since'75
December 29, 2023 at 07:00 pm
Well....if Hall and the Vikings win, i look forward to reading your comments after the game.
If he and the vikings lose, i think my point would be proven.
I'm banking on the vikings losing because there are playoff implications and i feel it was/is a stupid move to start a 5th round rookie with 101 yards under his belt.
So i'm jumping on it.
Sure, i could lose 5 bills ( i doubt it), but that won't change my life one bit.
Bitternotsour
December 29, 2023 at 10:51 am
great idea. you should bet more and more, and also more often. betting on football is a proven money maker, and it's a great retirement strategy.
free easy money.
Since'75
December 29, 2023 at 06:49 pm
Thanks, that's well thought out Bitter.
You make a lot of sense...as usual.
But i think i'll make my own decisions.
I have to say, you really do sound bitter.
dobber
December 29, 2023 at 11:11 am
"It seems like the Vikings are folding up their tent for the season and taking a look at what 5th round pick Jaren Hall might have to offer."
They already know Mullens and Dobbs are mistake-prone throwers. They also know the Packers have been way too porous of late to put up much resistance. They know what they have if Hall starts slow or starts giving the game away.
Since'75
December 29, 2023 at 06:51 pm
So imagine Love playing in his rookie year in week 17 with the playoffs on the line.
Is 5th round rookie the smart play?
Maybe the vikings don't view Hall as a project QB, i don't know.
Just thinking out loud.
**************
Thanks for all the down votes in all my comments Opie, i'll be at 1.500 before ya know it.
You da man!!....Rock on!!
GregC
December 29, 2023 at 07:47 am
We've been hearing this all year: THIS is the game that will tell us what kind of team the Packers are. But if there's one thing we've learned, it's that no single game tells us any more about this team than the next one does. They could get blown out by the Vikings on Sunday night. Or they could thump the Vikings and then lose at home to the Bears with the playoffs on the line. I have no idea what's going to happen. The only established narrative is that this is a young team that is up-and-down that is still figuring out its offense and needs a new defensive coordinator.
Johnblood27
December 29, 2023 at 07:50 am
...and Head Football Coach.
there, finished it up for ya! no charge!
Leatherhead
December 29, 2023 at 10:25 am
Why would we fire LaFleur?
He has a higher career win percentage than any coach in the league. He's 13th All-Time, and quite a few of the guys ahead of him are in the HOF. He's higher than Bellichick, higher than Reid. He's gotten Jordan Love ready to play. We're 11th in offense.
The chances of replacing him with someone better are small. A better course is to see what happens this year. It's already been a successful season at this point...remember where we were a year ago. If we make the playoffs or not, we're looking at 2024 and the ability to put a 30 ppg offense on the field for the next several years. Love, Watson, Doubs, Reed, Wicks, Heath, Musgrave and Kraft.......all under contract.
We had a lot of things go wrong this year, but we've answered the big question. The coaching staff deserves credit for keeping the youngest team in the league in contention.
RCPackerFan
December 29, 2023 at 12:21 pm
it is comical seeing this post and seeing that you have one up vote compared to 3 down.
People just hate. Its as simple as that. Your post is very accurate and real. Not hyperbole.
LaFleur won't be gone. They will get a new DC. We should be pretty thrilled that we don't have to go into the future needing a new offensive system to run with a young QB. I don't get the people wanting change just because.
BirdDogUni
December 29, 2023 at 12:35 pm
He should be fired, but he won't be.
Murphy should be fired, but he won't be.
Joe Barry should be fired, but he won't be.
I'm beginning to see a pattern emerging.
LLCHESTY
December 29, 2023 at 03:59 pm
"Joe Barry should be fired, but he won't be."
I think/hope/pray you're wrong about this. Despite all the positives on offense it will be hard to get excited for next year if Barry is still there. Things will be tough anyway with the change in the RB and safety rooms and at least one new O lineman, keeping Barry would be like driving with the parking brake half on.
Johnblood27
December 29, 2023 at 07:31 pm
MLF's brand of leadership is as a follower.
He couldn't win in the playoffs with a loaded team and AR at QB. What in the world makes you think that a weak leader can win it all with a young team that needs leadership and sound decision making from the coaching staff?
MLF has not shown any improvements as a HC over his time in GB. Please do not use the TEAM's record as rationale to keep MLF as the HC. Look a little deeper and think about winning beyond the NFC Norris division.
If MLF showed as much improvement as the young players have this season I would not be on the "Dump Him" bandwagon, but he hasn't, so I am. His leadership has been abysmal, his handling of his employees has been absolutely terrible and has led to regression across the entire defense and also the OL.
All the points you make for keeping MLF are reasonable points to keep MLF-the OC, NOT MLF-the HC. Clements has proven to be valuable working with JLove, MLF and his schemes and "in-game adjustments" not so much. There are many more issues to consider beyond the PPG of the GBP Offense. MLF fails at any other metric you use. Under your observations Stenovich has been a good OC too. Do you believe that? I would listen to any rationale for keeping the RB coach, the WR coach, the TE coach, beyond those guys I see very replaceable J-A-G's or worse. Butkus... really? MLF's decisions along the OL have hurt the team throughout his tenure, he has no idea how to guide his OL coach and players and he removed the best chance he had at helping that room to placate Steno when Hackett jumped ship.
Don't bring me arguments that MLF should be retained, all points you could make are completely refutable and I don't like typing this much.
GregC
December 29, 2023 at 11:45 am
There are going to be so many disappointed people on this site when Matt LaFleur doesn't get fired in the off-season.
RCPackerFan
December 29, 2023 at 11:59 am
And the shocking part to most is there is absolutely no reason to fire him. Look at the improvements the offense has made this year. And that is running Matt's scheme. Remember before the season we kept hearing how it was all Rodgers for the reason that made the offense look good. And how we would find out what Matt's real offense is. Well it turns out it is pretty damn good. And that is with as many injuries and inexperienced players as they have had. The offense has significantly improved as the year has went on. That is credit to the offensive coaches and they are led by LaFleur.
They will get a new DC and I am willing to bet LaFleur will find someone that will drastically improve our defense.
Johnblood27
December 29, 2023 at 07:37 pm
I may be disappointed, but I will not be surprised,
I loathe Mark Murphy and what he has done to undo all that Robert Harlan brought to the GBP franchise. Murphy should be hung in effigy just like Ole was back in the day.
Since'61
December 29, 2023 at 08:25 am
It's about winning the LOS on both sides of the ball. I'm not sure if this team can pull that off for a full 60 minutes of football. On the other side I'm not sure where the Vikings are at with starting a rookie QB in a game where their playoff chances are still on the line.
It's difficult to know which Packers team will show up this week. The team which defeated the Lions and Chiefs or the version which has showed up for the last 3 weeks. Healthy Aaron Jones gives the Packers their best chance for the win since he can score from anywhere on the field via the run or the pass. Jones will be needed with numerous injuries to the receiving corps. Enough has been written and posted about Joe Barry's defense but so I'm not going to add to that here.
As for the Packers as a playoff team, is that really where this team is at? The Packers record could/should be at bad as 4-11 at this point. The Saints missed a makable game winning FG after the defense allowed then to easily drive down the field. The Chargers had a game winning TD pass dropped by a wide open receiver. A non-DPI call would have given the Chiefs a first and goal inside the Packers 5 yard line, maybe time runs out on the Chiefs anyway. So 5-10 is probably a more accurate picture of where this Packers team is actually at after 15 games.
If we are honest with ourselves the Packers current playoff hopes are based more upon the overall sad state of the NFC than the quality of the Packers play in 2023. They have had 3 solid wins so far in 2023, against the Bears, Rams and the Lions on 'Thanksgiving. Beyond that they have beat themselves in several games and have comes close to defeating themselves in games that they have won the Panthers game being the best latest example. The team's sloppy play has not improved. The defense has regressed particularly over the last 3 games. Head coaching in game decisions are inconsistent and very questionable and MLF has virtually completed 5 seasons as an NFL HC.
Fortunately Jordan Love has been a bright spot for the Packers his play has improved over the course of the season but he still missed throws that should be easy completions for an NFL starting QB. The Packers should give Love the 2024 season before making a decision on his future in Green Bay.
As for the coaching staff, I would prefer to clean house after the season but I doubt that will happen while Murphy is still team President. If the Packers do make the playoffs it will even less likely that any changes will be made. the playoffs may even be enough of an excuse for the Packers to justify retaining Joe Barry as their DC.
I will cheer for the Packers to win their final two games but I'll remain concerned about what it all means for the team's future even if the Packers reach the playoffs. Thanks, Since '61
Coldworld
December 29, 2023 at 08:43 am
The best defense is probably getting ahead early as we did then. Force Hall to be aggressive and try to contain Jefferson.
Since'61
December 29, 2023 at 09:16 am
I agree completely Coldworld. Although I do not have much faith in Barry's defense to hold a lead late in the game. If the Panthers had managed to save one second on the clock last week the game would have gone into OT and who knows after that. Also the Packers defense is notorious for enabling previously unheard of QBs to become Johnny Unitas when they play against the Packers. Thanks, Since '61
dobber
December 29, 2023 at 12:36 pm
"Although I do not have much faith in Barry's defense to hold a lead late in the game."
All gas, no effin' brakes...
"Also the Packers defense is notorious for enabling previously unheard of QBs to become Johnny Unitas when they play against the Packers."
Half the people here remember watching Johnny Unitas, half the people here would need you to explain the reference...
Since'61
December 29, 2023 at 05:20 pm
Spot on as usual Dobber! Thanks, Since '61
LLCHESTY
December 29, 2023 at 04:06 pm
They only have 6 interceptions on the year(31st in NFL) but if Addison is out I hope they double Jefferson and let the players covering the other WRs play the ball. Mullins obviously didn't last week but young players can often get cautious after throwing a pick.
dobber
December 30, 2023 at 12:14 pm
"They only have 6 interceptions on the year(31st in NFL)"
This is almost unfathomable...and, yet, they're even on the year in +/-.
LambeauPlain
December 29, 2023 at 10:10 am
"The Packers record could/should be at bad as 4-11 at this point."
You are only telling half the story.
You ignore the 5 leads (so far) the Love led young and injury depleted Offense gave the team late in the game only to be lost by Barry Ball's incompetence.
I can make the case the team could just as easily be a 10-5 as a more accurate picture of where the team should be after 15 games.
Add to the late D collapses the fact the young Offense has never played a game with its expected starters after the September Bears game.
I am a glass half full on the football team's player talent...glass half empty on the coaching leadership. This team has a very bright future with competent coaching.
Since'75
December 30, 2023 at 11:27 am
Sometimes this stuff gets over analyzed.......
This team could be 4-11 IF......
This team could be 11-4 IF.....
Where would it be if they had to play more than 3 winning teams.
We could go on and on and on and..........
This team IS 7-8, because that's who they are.
TVOR
dobber
December 29, 2023 at 11:16 am
"The Packers record could/should be at bad as 4-11 at this point."
We can speculate, but the only truth is that they're 7-8. That's the world as we know it.
RCPackerFan
December 29, 2023 at 12:25 pm
Exactly right Dobber.
Same could be said, that we could easily be 11-4/12-3 right now. The defense gave up 5 4th quarter leads. If they win all 5 of those, they would currently be 12-3. But the truth is we are 7/8. Its just where we are at. we can play the what if game all we want. But at the end of the day our record is what it is.
bottlefliper
December 29, 2023 at 12:23 pm
As for the Packers as a playoff team, is that really where this team is at? The Packers record could/should be at bad as 4-11 at this point.
Thats funny, actually the PACK could be more likely at 10-5 at this point and the NFC was sad in 1997 and its pretty good today. But thats always what the old guys like to belive even its always the opposite of the true.
Just ask Tom Brady how much better the NFL was as he still was playing and I dont want to think what Mr. Ivermetin and Rogan tells us about the good old days. Just crazy stuff from a past that never existed. But hey, people talk like that since 20.000 years and it never was true.
But yeah, just wait till the whole wolrd knows how good Jordan is, than you can pay him 100M a year. Makes a lot of sense. The flateearther destroyed the Packers with his contracts and as he played like 2% of the SC when it counts and got 25%.....
Yeah, tell me more about the good ol days.......where the stadiums have been empty and the football was slow and bad........
ricky
December 29, 2023 at 08:32 am
The Vikings have decided that Jaren Hall will be the starting QB on Sunday night. Expect to hear on Monday morning sports talk channels how the Vikings may have found their QB to replace Cousins, as Hall ends with a QB rating in the 120's, 250-300 yards passing, and Justin Jefferson going over 200 yards in receiving. This is not sarcasm, but a prediction based on Barry's defense the last few games.
Vachio
December 29, 2023 at 08:45 am
You're on the money. The kid is going to torch this defense. Especially without Jaire on the field.
barutanseijin
December 29, 2023 at 02:28 pm
What good would that stiff do? They had Jaire in the Carolina game. He made about one good play . It didn’t matter if they were in zone or man, he was just not good. Low effort yet still lots of mugging for the camera.He couldn’t handle Jefferson playing the way he has been this year.
Vachio
December 29, 2023 at 08:40 am
I love how many pundits are saying Jaren Hall could even the odds for the Packers defense. Have y'all not watched this defense play the last 3 weeks?
And the Jaire suspension sends such a horrible message - accountability applies only to the players, but not to the coaching staff. How do you classify Joe Barry's coaching as anything other than conduct detrimental to the team? Yet, he's still there and hasn't been suspended or fined.
T7Steve
December 29, 2023 at 08:55 am
I don't know. He's directing his bend but break at the worst times defense to new levels of success.
Since'61
December 29, 2023 at 09:19 am
T7- Barry's defense is not a bend don't break defense it's just a broken defense, period. Thanks, Since '61
T7Steve
December 29, 2023 at 09:24 am
Yes.
That's why I said "bend but break". If it looked like a Freudian typo, it worked.
LambeauPlain
December 29, 2023 at 09:48 am
"On offense the Packers have the edge, 10th vs. 21st, but this gap would be different had the Vikings not lost Cousins for the year and Justin Jefferson for much of it."
And the gap would AGAIN be different had the Packers not lost Bakht for the year and Jenks, Watson, Jonesy, and Musgrave for most of it. How come injuries are only used to rationalize the Ugly Purple's performance?
This was a revealing statement:
"Not surprisingly, the big difference is on defense, where Brian Flores’ squad ranks 5th, while Joe Barry’s is 30th."
Flores could have been the DC of the Packers the Green and Gold the talk of the NFL. I wish I could get this out of my craw.
I believe the Pack, with Flores, could have been one of the top playoff seeds this season had it not been for Barry Ball losing 5 games late after Love and the O gave the team the lead. Flores would have saved some of all of those leads.
Flores has developed a far better D with far less talent than perennial flop Barry. Imagine the talent on the Packers playing with the Flores "We attack, you react" brand of defense.
harleycops
December 29, 2023 at 10:23 am
If this game is the final exam, then the Packers D better bring cheat sheets because I have 0% that they will even pass by their play. If a 4.0 GPA is A+, then the D has about .5 GPA with the prospect of dropping even farther. They say miracles do happen, so I hope we see the miracle of Barry sent packing. His defense FAILED!
Irelandseye
December 29, 2023 at 10:25 am
There’s nothing more demotivating for your great team members than seeing you tolerate the bad ones. And there’s none so blind as those who refuse to see. Likeable as MLF is, he’s a terrible man manager. JB is an arrogant self serving fool who surely will never coach in the NFL again…… but then again there’s nothing more crazy than folk.
Leatherhead
December 29, 2023 at 11:29 am
""""Likeable as MLF is, he’s a terrible man manager"""
Then how do you explain the highest career winning percentage among active coaches, and 13th All-Time? Luck? The Greatness of Aaron Rodgers? How?
dobber
December 29, 2023 at 12:42 pm
Given the Packers looked pretty much the same at this point last year, I'm thinking that the "riding ARod's coat-tails" argument is a lousy one.
BirdDogUni
December 29, 2023 at 01:13 pm
"The Greatness of Aaron Rodgers?"
Yes.
Period.
barutanseijin
December 29, 2023 at 02:57 pm
That former Packer qb was not great in 2019 or 2022. He did have an excellent regular season in 2020 and deserved the awards he received. He wasn’t as good in 2021 as revealed in that embarrassing showing vs SF at home in the playoffs. He did not merit the awards he received, but for argument’s sake let’s say that Mr Regular Season was “great” in 2021, too. That puts the total of years Lafleur benefited from greatness at 2 of his 5. He’s doing OK. You could do worse.
On the other hand, you could do better. I think he’s a Doug Collins level coach. He is alright and can get a team to the playoffs, but he’s never going to get to the top.
Irelandseye
December 30, 2023 at 04:18 am
I think it’s fairly obvious. The first three years of his tenure, Rodgers still believed he could win a SB. The fact that you are asking the question seems to imply you believe he is a good man manager. That’s an interesting opinion considering all that’s been going on lately. I’d be happy to be on the wrong side of this debate, but I don’t think that’s the case v
Qoojo
December 29, 2023 at 10:26 am
Always want at least one win a year against the them. My personal nickname for them is the Minnesota Butt-wipings. At least it rhymes at the end and encapsulates the team and fans correctly. Is there a bigger bandwagon fan base?
A couple of writers here are really overstating this game's importance. Packers already have their questions answered on Love, the offense, and defense. At most, it will be nice to see how Love and the offense performs in that dumpster dome environment where this is their team's superbowl every year. This game is between two potential playoff filler teams going nowhere and with zero chance to win the superbowl.
Leatherhead
December 29, 2023 at 11:16 am
You know, it has been suggested that defending the pass is more important than defending the run, because most points and yards come through the air. This idea didn't appear to gain a lot of traction.
But now, when we start a secondary of Day 3 rookies, and as TGR says "we can't cover anybody", that extra yard on the ground doesn't seem to mean as much.
The NFL is a passing league, and defense in the NFL is pass defense, and the best pass defenses advance to the playoffs. Pass defense starts with guys who can cover somebody long enough for the pass rush to reach home. We don't have those guys right now. We don't have safeties who can help them.
When this season ends, and we start preparing for next year, the secondary will improve. Stokes will still be under contract. Hopefully, one or more of the rookies will be better. But we're going to need better horses regardless of who our DC is. We'll probably lose Savage to FA. Alexander is a question mark. We have 9 or 10 active on gamedays......I'm not seeing 10 guys, not to mention the practice squad and injuries.
Qoojo
December 29, 2023 at 11:33 am
Right. This defense is screwed. It's either bad scheme or bad players right now.
- Nixon is a 3rd stringer. Use in emergencies only for DB.
- 0 safeties. They really need a good veteran FA pickup here that can play and make the correct pre-snap calls.
- ILB is a glaring issue. Need Walker to think less and be fast. Regularly out of position.
- Campbell seems to have a contact one year wonder. Pretty much declined every year afterward.
How much of this is just crappy teaching and poor defensive scheme though? I think some or many players appear worse than they really are due to playing in this defense.
Leatherhead
December 29, 2023 at 11:40 am
"""How much of this is just crappy teaching and poor defensive scheme though? I think some or many players appear worse than they really are due to playing in this defense."""
Well, how much of it is good teaching and good offensive scheme by the opponent? I mean, if I'm playing the Packers, and I'm seeing Valentine, Ballentine, Johnson, Owens and Nixon on the field, that presents a target-rich environment. I'd definitely be trying to take advantage of their inexperience and physical limitations.
A good DC can hide some weaknesses, but you can't hide everybody.
RCPackerFan
December 29, 2023 at 12:44 pm
Which is why blaming everything on Barry isn't accurate. The players need to take some responsibility for the poor play. There have been way to many missed tackles, poor angles taken, not getting off of blocks. So the players do deserve some of the grief. But it starts and ends with Barry. His scheme is poor, he has done very little to try and change things up, at least until LaFleur took over to help the defense out.
A new system, one that players feel confident in will help significantly.
jannesbjornson
December 29, 2023 at 01:56 pm
"That's why he traded Douglas", was the message from the Fans." Let Valentine have his reps", especially with your best CB in the sick bay. They become targets when they sit in soft zones without fast reads. Pete Carroll could take this secondary and make it work.
Leatherhead
December 29, 2023 at 06:49 pm
Is that why Seattle has given up more points, more yards, more passing yards, more completions, and generally ranks in the bottom half of many significant defensive categories?
LLCHESTY
December 29, 2023 at 04:16 pm
Why not just have a defense that's good at both. It works for Cleveland, Baltimore, Minnesota and even Miami this year. Stop the run, put a team in disadvantageous down and distance situations. It's not an either/or proposition, you just let Barryball fool you into thinking it is.
MooPack
December 29, 2023 at 04:29 pm
Ha, exactly. Careful though, talk like that strikes a nerve that causes blindness.
LLCHESTY
December 29, 2023 at 06:21 pm
He once tried to prove a point by asking me which teams that defended the pass better than the Packers in '23 also defended the run better. I looked it up and the answer was EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. This year is different though, the Cardinals give up .9 of a yard less a game passing than the Packers and are worse in rushing defense. They are also in line for a top 5 draft pick.
13TimeChamps
December 29, 2023 at 08:00 pm
I am so tired of this 7>5 nonsense. Who gives a shit whether you lose because your defense gives up 200+ yards on the ground or you lose because you let Mayfield/Young/DeVito have career passing games against the defense? I get it...we didn't lose against Young/Carolina. That's really a legitimate argument?
So, apparently, it's ok to be horrible against the run if you're ok against the pass, and ok if you're horrible against the pass if you're ok against the run.
Here's a crazy thought....how about not be horrible against either? Is that too much to ask of this defense/DC?
Leatherhead
December 29, 2023 at 07:04 pm
So those are your four best defenses this year?
Baltimore has given up fewer points than anyone, so obviously they belong. The Vikings are 10th in scoring defense.. The Dolphins are 12th, and the Browns are 16th, one behind the Packers who are 15th.
A defense only has to be good at one thing: Keeping points off the board. I'd rather have them running plays designed to get 4 yards than plays designed to get three times that much.
LLCHESTY
December 29, 2023 at 10:41 pm
No, I was pointing out teams that have decent run and pass defenses. But strictly counting points without any thought to the teams they've played makes a great deal of sense.
Might want to check your info again on the Browns. They're 5 spots better than the Packers in scoring D. Probably haven't played against as many terrible QBs but that wouldn't concern you.
Leatherhead
December 29, 2023 at 11:20 pm
I’m done with you.
SinceLombardi
December 29, 2023 at 11:25 am
Bhey win, and get eliminated by losing the season finale against the Bears? That would be losing the win and in game two years in a row.. it would further evidence the fact that MLF has issues with late season big games in every season he’s been here.
dobber
December 29, 2023 at 11:26 am
The Packers' best bet is to attack the edges (2 of the Vikes top 3 CBs are hurt, and they're on their 4th OLB) with AJones and keep the Vikes' D moving and covering the whole field in the passing game. Control the ball, score 7s and not 3s, hope they can stay out front. A low-scoring game favors MN.
Leatherhead
December 29, 2023 at 11:35 am
Obviously, if we have Jones we should use him, a lot. We normally have around 64 offensive snaps and about half the time the ball goes to the RB, so he'd be damn useful. Agree about controlling the ball and not settling for FGs. And we do need to get points on the board so that Minnesota feels some pressure to do something.
LLCHESTY
December 29, 2023 at 06:25 pm
You don't see the dichotomy between saying rushing defense doesn't matter and saying the Packers need to control the clock and score points?
Leatherhead
December 29, 2023 at 06:51 pm
You can control the clock with your offense. But you score points through the air.
LLCHESTY
December 29, 2023 at 10:52 pm
Minnesota is great example, 3rd in passing yards a game, 22nd in points.
jannesbjornson
December 29, 2023 at 02:00 pm
Start out 4 wides and Kraft. Push the pedal to the metal. Give the Fans a show. Nobody wants to see a 3-0 victory as in the Raider v queens slugfest of incompetence.
LLCHESTY
December 29, 2023 at 06:26 pm
I wouldn't mind if the Packers have the 3 at the end.
NBC definitely would though but it would serve them right for not moving to a different game.
dobber
December 30, 2023 at 12:19 pm
Surprised they didn't flex Miami-Baltimore into that slot.
Packerpasty
December 29, 2023 at 11:44 am
Every team has injuries now, some much more devastating than what the Packers have had...no more excuses, go out and win...at this point in the season "young" also shouldn't be an excuse....time to grow up..
dobber
December 29, 2023 at 12:44 pm
At this point in the season, some teams are ratcheting up the intensity while others are planning tee times. Time to find out who has another gear in them...
TXCHEESE
December 29, 2023 at 05:02 pm
No longer rookies 15 games into the season. MLF needs to call the game knowing the defense will probably give up 30. Hopefully the defense will find the proverbial nut(s) and actually turn over a rookie QB a couple of times.
THESZOTMAN1
December 29, 2023 at 07:14 pm
Dobber's right. A low scoring game favors Vi-Queens.
Given state of our defenseless defense, our only shot is hang 40 on them and hang on at the end.
The Szotman