Developmental CB Herb Waters Kept Around by the Packers
-- A returning developmental project adds a little interesting flare to the cornerback room in Green Bay.
On Thursday, the Green Bay Packers announced that they signed cornerback Herb Waters after choosing to decline his exclusive rights tender before the start of the new league year on Wednesday.
#Packers have signed DL Muhammad Wilkerson, CB Herb Waters, & traded CB Damarious Randall to the Cleveland Browns for QB DeShone Kizer.
: https://t.co/05DKtMKDRf pic.twitter.com/MIQJJnITWC
— Green Bay Packers (@packers) March 15, 2018
Waters, the 25-year-old former wide receiver, was signed by the Packers as an undrafted player from the University of Miami in 2016. Originally emerging from college as a wide receiver, the Packers transitioned him to cornerback to give him the chance to work with position coach Joe Whitt Jr.
He didn't see much action in his first season despite making a few standout plays during camp. He spent 2016 on the Packers' practice squad but was activated for two playoff games where he played very scarcely on special teams.
Waters missed all of 2017 on injured reserve with a shoulder injury suffered in August before the season even began.
The Packers obviously see something they like in the 6-0, 188-pound Waters, whose backstory is similar to that of former Packers cornerback Sam Shields.
Shields was undrafted out of Miami as well but switched from receiver to cornerback during his senior season with the Hurricanes as opposed to Waters doing so on the fly after already signing with the Packers.
Whitt actually compared to Waters' skill set to that of Shields and Tramon Williams, another undrafted Packers cornerback who currently remains a free agent.
If the Packers can develop Waters and unmask his potential, that'd be an automatic lift to a group that's now missing Damarious Randall -- now with the Cleveland Browns -- and Davon House, who is now a free agent as well. The last thing the Packers should bank on, however, is hoping Waters plays a significant role in 2018 barring anything unforeseen in his performance.
Along with the Waters news, the Packers also officially announced the signing of defensive lineman Muhammad Wilkerson and the Randall trade.
The Packers sent Randall to the Browns last week in exchange for quarterback DeShone Kizer and an extra 13 and 12-spot jump in the fourth (No. 101) and fifth rounds (No. 138), respectively, in April's draft.
According to ESPN's Rob Demovsky, the announcement of tight end Jimmy Graham signing his official contract should come soon. He reportedly traveled to Green Bay on Thursday.
__________________________
Zachary Jacobson is a staff writer/reporter for Cheesehead TV. He's the voice of The Leap on iTunes and can be heard on The Scoop KLGR 1490 AM every Saturday morning. He's also a contributor on the Pack-A-Day Podcast. He can be found on Twitter via @ZachAJacobson or contacted through email at [email protected].
Comments (32)
stockholder
March 15, 2018 at 08:41 pm
No It's about being Cheap again! Just a lost cause. Time to mock the draft!
GBPDAN1
March 16, 2018 at 04:00 am
I'm not going to feel good about our D-back situation untill MB is resigned or his replacement is found, we sign a quality veteran CB (Or 2) and we draft another quality DB.
Johnblood27
March 15, 2018 at 09:05 pm
Time to mock the Packers leadership.
Low ball Jordy? Vet minimum?
Shame on every one of them.
John Ramble Kirk
March 15, 2018 at 11:32 pm
In hindsight, it would've been better to just outright release him without making an offer like that. I'm sure this isn't the first time we've done something like this, but having James Jones in the media, now, and his association with Jordy we're hearing about this time.
If Jordy told this information on the low ball directly to James Jones, then it's pretty obvious he was horribly offended by it. That info may have come from another member of the team whom Jordy spoke with about how it went down, and that teammate may be the angry one trying to make the org look bad. If I had to guess, I'd pick Randall Cobb as the source. Team was trying to restructure him and it went nowhere so, perhaps, Cobb was put off by what they tried doing to him by reporting to James what was done to Jordy.
Cubbygold
March 16, 2018 at 07:52 am
And you have to believe rodgers heard the whole story from jordy directly. You're right, this didn't have to happen this way, and reguardless of if it was the right move, handling it this way is a clear negative.
Thegreatreynoldo
March 16, 2018 at 12:14 pm
I disagree completely. Other than busybody Jame Jones, there is zero evidence that Jordy was insulted, mistreated or even Low-Balled by Gute. Is it so hard to envision Gute saying to Jordy that he signed Graham, Wilkerson and still wants to sign a FA at CB or other position, and X amount is what he projects to have left over for Nelson, is it enough? And when Jordy said no, GB released him before the start of FA instead of engaging in talks to restructure for a few weeks while teams spent the bulk of their cap space. Does cutting Nelson even mean that GB thinks he is washed up? Could it mean they like Graham's potential production better than Nelson projected production? Course, maybe Edgar Bennett thought Nelson should be kept, and that is why Bennett is now in Oakland, and by extension, why Nelson is suffering in Oakland with $13M guaranteed.
As for ole Jimmy Jones, did anyone hear Jordy say anything? Do you think Jordy said I don't want to get my hands dirty, would you ole buddy be my surrogate and take some public shots at GB? I think it is much more likely that James Jones thought the number was insulting than that Jordy told him he was insulted. I hate it when politicians send surrogates out to do their dirty work and have the lowest opinion of surrogates.
Hyde/Heyward are insulted because GB made no offer at all to them, even though GB's offer might have been deemed a low-ball offer. Nasty GM. Now we make the supposedly low-ball offer, and the GM is still nasty. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
John Ramble Kirk
March 16, 2018 at 01:35 pm
JR... You assume that James Jones just made up the low ball stuff? We have a corroborating report from Wilde who said he was offered not much more than the league minimum for 10 year vets which is 1 million.
Where do you think the info came from? That's critical in coming to an understanding of where this story originated. It came from somewhere IE: SOMEONE. Who could that be? Do you think the FO is out telling Wilde and James, Hey, we just offered Jordy a little over a million and he rejected it? No. It was not the FO who put out that info, as it would make no sense for them to do so. Brian could've addressed it at his presser...did not. To conclude Jordy didn't tell a teammate what was going on in the negotiations is nearly impossible believe. I do agree with you that Jordy may not have told someone hoping they'd be his surrogate, but what does that matter? I'm sure Jordy was hurt...read his transcript with the media in Oakland. He was shocked by what went down.
So, either Jordy told James Jones directly what happened or someone else on the team told James Jones and the only place that teammate could've gotten it from was Jordy...or perhaps, his agent. Vann McElroy is Jordy's agent, but I can't find a list for his clients, it's password protected, so I don't know who else SSG reps on the Packers, if anyone. Thought about calling to see if I can figure out who else they rep that's a Packer.
Surrogates might be an offputting unwelcome thought but who thought Kevin Durant had a fake twitter posing as someone else? Roger Goodell's wife, was using a fake twitter account to defend her husband. To think Nelson was irked and used a teammate to tell of his disgust is not only plausible, but likely.
Thegreatreynoldo
March 16, 2018 at 02:20 pm
I don't doubt that Nelson was offered $1M or $2M by GB. I was unaware of any evidence that it was done in a demeaning or insulting manner. Now, I can't find a transcript of Jordy whining about how he was treated by GB. If he complained, give me a link to Jordy's own comments.
“Obviously that was a shock to the system. Not something you want to hear after you've been somewhere for 10 years,” Nelson said. That's what I found. It doesn't mean Gute didn't break the news as gently as possible.
Give a link and then I will believe. But I won't castigate Gute as an unfeeling lout w/o some evidence, and James Jones isn't cutting it.
John Ramble Kirk
March 16, 2018 at 02:42 pm
JR...Where did me or anyone say Brian did this in a rude manner? The offer itself is what is being perceived as "rude" or "insulting" not the way Brian delivered the news. I don't believe Brian was a jerk about it but I don't know for sure, and that hasn't been reported on as far as i know. I commented on his presser that he looked rocked to have released Jordy. That would indicate this was hard on him and that he wasn't nasty about it. Not sure how you got that out of what has been said?
EDIT: To be clear, this has nothing to do with how Jordy felt Brian delivered the news. Have you ever been in a review at work and not gotten the raise you felt you deserved? Would it matter if Mother Teresa broke it to you with tears in her eyes? You're still going to be insulted that you're not getting what you believe you're worth. From 12 mil down to 1+? Just put yourself in those shoes after taking one for the team on your last deal. How's that going to feel? Not...very...good. How do you think his close friends received the news? Just look at the fans reaction and then think about someone who actually loves the guy and knows him and has seen him over 10 years. A tough situation.
Minniman
March 16, 2018 at 02:22 pm
Thanks TGR, some great food for thought as always.
My original face-value impressions on the Jordy situation was "vet minimum - thats a bit insulting", but it makes complete sense that cutting him before FA started was the best thing for Jordy in securing a new teams interest before cap dollars started being allocated.
Rebecca
March 16, 2018 at 07:55 pm
Exactly! These are multi-million $ business decisions. And Green Bay is a very small fish bowl. Hence the drama queens come out about who’s feelings are hurt. James Jones is just drawing attention to himself.
Hawg Hanner
March 15, 2018 at 09:28 pm
If anybody took the time to watch the videos posted on various pack sites on Jordy, it was plain to see he hit the wall. I'm glad he got a contract. Was he injured? Don't know but am grateful we have moved on, and I think most experts agreed except for the cadre of his special fans. We need depth at CB and Waters is that. The Pack was nothing special last year and we need big time roster turnover. Change is good
CheesyTex
March 15, 2018 at 09:50 pm
Change is definitely good, Hawg.
IMO Joe Whitt is the X factor the Packers are relying on to mold a younger, faster secondary in Pettine's new scheme.
Link that to what looks like a vastly upgraded D-line and ... well, I am excited to watch.
Cubbygold
March 16, 2018 at 07:54 am
X factor...gamble...what ever we call it, the DB group is currently missing reliability and dependability. Thats what the team has to add, preferably with veteran leadership as well
marpag1
March 16, 2018 at 05:42 am
I agree on this, Hawg: To me, it looked like Jordy totally hit the wall. I thought he was awful last year, and at the end of the season I posted that I thought either he was finished, or he wasn't trying - both of which are bad. He got a few catches by virtue of being the wily ol' vet, but almost nothing by virtue of athleticism.
Now people are saying, "The Packers released Nelson so that they could sign Graham." Uh... don't think so. I think they released Nelson because his highly suspect showing from last year was in no way worthy of an 11M dollar cap hit.
Having said that though, I'm mightily surprised that the Raiders gave him 2 years, 14 million. They obviously believe that Nelson's lack of production was pretty exclusively because of Hundley. But I didn't see Nelson running free and Hundley couldn't deliver the ball. I saw Nelson covered tightly enough that only Aaron Rodgers could get him the ball.
Good luck Derek Carr. I think the Raiders will be disappointed.
Finwiz
March 16, 2018 at 12:32 pm
Agree with your take, particularly the 1st 2 paragraphs.
Something happened with 87 last year. Either he quit on Hundley, the team, or he knew his body could no longer perform.
He looked like a guy playing with no heart and no joy.
Falling down after catches with no effort. Surprising for a player like him.
Hence no TD's, and limited performance after 12 was hurt.
Hinting around at playing only 1-2 more years.
The team saw ALL of this, and figured he just didn't want to play anymore.
scullyitsme
March 15, 2018 at 10:00 pm
I also find it funny that the same screen names that call for everyone to be fired on almost every post are so offended at cutting Jordy. It might not of been a smooth move but we’ll all move on, and so will he. I’m sure he won’t complain about an extra 15 milllion and I won’t feel sorry for him long when I think about it.
Thegreatreynoldo
March 15, 2018 at 10:02 pm
I wonder why GB did not offer the ERFA tender to Waters, and then signed him just a day or two later. Too minor since we ended up with him anyway. I am curious, and will keep it in mind should I run across an explanation.
Handsback
March 15, 2018 at 10:56 pm
Wondered the same thing. Pettine may have been consulted, but right now...who know?
marpag1
March 16, 2018 at 05:40 am
I had this question, and one more: Has anyone confirmed that Herb Waters actually exists?
Coldworld
March 16, 2018 at 06:40 am
Cheaper and more flexible terms can be negotiated. They believed there was no risk of loss in doing so. We and others have done this before with prospect players who don’t have much film.
Spock
March 16, 2018 at 08:34 am
Coldworld, I saw that explanation (before the re-signing) on another Packers' site. The person who made the explanation said he thought the Packers could sign Waters for less than the tender amount and thought the risk of a player who was out all last season being signed elsewhere was low. If the Packers did, indeed, sign Waters for less than the tender it was apparently a good gamble. Seems like Gute has a little "gambler" in him which should make further moves even more interesting!
flackcatcher
March 16, 2018 at 08:28 am
I actually to him during training camp last season. Nice young man.
lou
March 16, 2018 at 10:31 am
If you check out Bob McGinn's 2016 defensive player grades at packersnews.com he indicates that Waters had as much or more potential at CB than anyone on the roster at that time which echos Whitt's comments. That is good news but it is hard to believe we are down to one starter (just had shoulder surgery), on sometime starter (just had achilles surgery), a previous starter who returned to the team from the Jag's who is a free agent, and a couple of young CB's with very few snaps from scrimmage.
Thegreatreynoldo
March 16, 2018 at 12:20 pm
Far as I know, a team can't legally sign any player to less than the ERFA tender. It is a low as one can go. Doing the limbo is fine for a GM, but when the stick is already touching the ground?
John Ramble Kirk
March 16, 2018 at 02:47 pm
I'm going to guess this was injury related. They didn't offer him a tender because he hadn't been checked out by the team. The fact he was so quickly brought back for a reported "medical check" tells me he hadn't been checked yet where the other guys had been or at least had no concerns in that area.
Maybe, Herb just hadn't gotten around to getting back to Green Bay and since he didn't they waived him...after being waived he thought he better get up there and got looked at and then signed.
Spock
March 16, 2018 at 06:46 pm
TGR, I didn't know that and apparently neither did the person writing or discussing this (might of been on a chat?). Interesting then. Why let him go if you are going to sign him for the same money? Something seems off about that.
EDIT: Saw this: "There is one other kind of free agent, which isn't really very "free" at all. That is the Exclusive Rights Free Agent (ERFA). Such a player has no more than two accrued seasons in the NFL and may only sign with his prior team, provided, of course, that the team extends a minimum qualifying offer to the player." Is it possible that since the Packers DID NOT tender Waters they could pay him below that minimum qualifying offer????
RCPackerFan
March 16, 2018 at 08:07 am
I know Whitt and the coaches were really excited about Waters last year. Unfortunately he got hurt and never got to show those skills.
I am hoping this year we can see what got the coaches really excited about Waters.
Razer
March 16, 2018 at 08:21 am
Won't put much weight on Herb Waters. Very much one of those pre-training camp "hope" stories otherwise known as "longshots". Two years later and we still haven't got a guy ready to step on the field. The Packers do love a project though - at least they did...
Handsback
March 16, 2018 at 09:13 am
A friend every year bets me on which rookie (UDFA) or 2nd year guy that makes the 53 man roster. Can't be drafted, but can be a traded player. The bet is always the same....dinner.
He lives in FL. and his bet to make the team two years ago was The Water Man, his words. He had seen him play in person and started following him after the draft. He also bet on Shields and Williams so while he's no scout...he knows good players when he sees them and he loves The Water Man! So maybe if he can avoid the injury bug....who knows.
PatrickGB
March 16, 2018 at 09:28 am
I hope Waters would be able to play well this year. He may be the closest we have to a veteran player on this years team. (which is scary) His listed weight is 180 something lbs which is kind of light for press man but if he can run and play well on the boundary we may have a good back-up there.
Rak43
March 17, 2018 at 01:39 pm
I'm not as worried about the Packers CB's as much as most people because every team has players you don't know about who are not big names that step up and produce. In recent years for GB it was Tramon Williams and Sam Shields. Currently the Packers have several young players who are physically talented enough to play the position but were lost in the dumpster fire that was Dom Capers scheme. Enter Mike Pettine and his streamlined defense. I have faith that the new coaches will be able to unearth a gem from among Lenzy Pipkins, Herb Waters, and Donatello Brown as well as any picks they may use on a CB in the draft. I still think one more veteran presence in the locker room would be helpful. I think DRC is still available at the moment and could be had at a reasonable price.