Cory's Corner: Versatility Is King With NFL Draft
Kingsley Suamataia wears the crown jewel of versatility — the most important thing in the NFL Draft kingdom.
What is the most attractive attribute that the Packers are looking for with the NFL Draft inching closer and closer?
You shouldn’t have to keep guessing, because the answer is and has always been versatility. Green Bay General manager Brian Gutekunst loves to draft guys that can do many things — thus enhancing the pick.
The Packers pick at No. 25 and I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if Gutekunst trades down and adds more picks. He could move back 13 spots and take left tackle Kingsley Suamataia, who could very well be just as good as Graham Barton, who teams are unsure of because of his short reach.
Suamataia, 21, would also not feel the heavy pressure of someone drafted in the first round. Even though the Packers don’t have All-Pro left tackle David Bakhtiari anymore, it affords them more time to give Suamataia time to develop. Because if they rush him too fast and Jordan Love will ultimately pay the price.
Now what about that versatility? He played 644 snaps at left tackle for BYU last year where he only allowed two sacks on 381 pass block snaps. In 2022, he played 687 snaps at right tackle and allowed zero sacks on 361 pass block snaps.
When I watch Suamataia I see a guy that is hungry. A guy that wants to get better. I see a guy that knows he has the tools. Most importantly, I see a guy that is coachable.
The Packers drafted Zach Tom in the fourth round and he wasn’t expected to play much his rookie year, but he started five games and raised eyebrows. He started all 17 games this past season and will be a cornerstone piece on the offensive line as we enter 2024.
The Packers know offensive lineman. They know how to develop them. They know what buttons to push and what areas need work right away.
The Packers are desperate to protect Love, who has suddenly thrust himself into the top 12 of NFL quarterbacks. They need more beef up front to help plow running lanes for an offensive attack that will be predicated on the ground.
The talent gap is very similar from late in the first round to early in the second. The Packers can add picks and most importantly, get better at the second-most important position in football.
(But let’s not forget about that tiny thing called versatility.)
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__________________________
Cory Jennerjohn is a graduate from UW-Oshkosh and has been in sports media for over 15 years. He was a co-host on "Clubhouse Live" and has also done various radio and TV work as well. He has written for newspapers, magazines and websites. He currently is a columnist for CHTV and also does various podcasts. He recently earned his Masters degree from the University of Iowa. He can be found on Twitter: @Coryjennerjohn
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Comments (83)
Cheezehead72
April 02, 2024 at 06:35 am
I agree that this guy looks good for a 2nd and it is a position of need and a good swing tackle is always a plus. He is only 21 and his weaknesses are all things that can be coached.
PatrickGB
April 02, 2024 at 06:55 am
A high pick for a swing player? I have to think about that.
Leatherhead
April 02, 2024 at 11:22 am
Today, he's a high pick who could be used as a swing tackle. But what about over the next three or four years?
We're happy with Tom, who is on a cheap rookie deal for two more years. If Runyan was worth $10M/year, what is it going to take to resign Tom?
We're apparently happy with Walker, who replaced Bakhtiari. There were some moments early in the year where he looked like he was in over his head, but by the playoffs, this guy looked like he belonged. Kudos to all the people who scouted him, drafted him, and worked with him a year to get him ready to play. He'll be here, and cheap, for the next several years.
People do get hurt, and we really don't have anything behind Walker and Tom. This is a team that should make a hard run at the Super Bowl this year and it'd be a damn shame if we came up short because of injuries at tackle, particularly when it can be prevented by drafting a good tackle this year.
PackEyedOptimist
April 02, 2024 at 07:05 am
Suamataia is my current prediction for who Gute will take, but at 25, not 41 or a trade down.
I love trade-downs, but I think Gute is more likely to have a crush on Kingsley; it's what he does. He has picked quite a few players in the first round who were predicted to be second-round picks. He doesn't want to lose "his guy."
K.S. is everything Gute loves: Young (21), high-RAS (9.35), long arms (34 1/4) and big hands (10 5/8) good score in broad jump (86%ile) or vertical ("explosion"), lineman, versatile (KS played both tackle positions), position of need now or in near-future, and "under-rated" due to injury or circumstances.
DoubleJ
April 02, 2024 at 07:48 am
I also like Kiran Amegadjie from Yale in R2/3 as a potential pick.
stockholder
April 02, 2024 at 08:09 am
Now you're talking as far as Reach.
This is a guy that has the body of a Lt.
Another guy for OT is christian Jones.
A 835/8 inch wingspan Rd. 3.
And he practiced against the best DL in
the draft.
DoubleJ
April 02, 2024 at 08:21 am
Christian Jones has a terrible 3 cone with a time of 8.09 (RAS score of 2.59) and his shuttle was only average at 4.78. FYI 70" wingspan is only 5'10". Did you mean an 80" wingspan that would be 6'8"?
We don't have athletic testing for Kiran Amegadjie yet, but his pro day is tomorrow so hopefully he tests. Amegadjie's tape looks VERY good and he is a large human (325lbs) with 36 1/8" arms.
jannesbjornson
April 02, 2024 at 10:05 am
Morgan's Span is 81-1/4". Footwork wins the point of attack. Be in your set faster and get the first punch. Sua is a RT, 82-1/2 span, but slow feet.
stockholder
April 02, 2024 at 10:47 am
According to Draft Scout
-Dates: 03/14/24
Hand: 10 7/8 Arm: 32 7/8
Wingspan: 81 3/8
Height: 6050
Weight: 311
40 Yrd Dash:
20 Yrd Dash:
10 Yrd Dash: 225 Lb. Bench Reps: 27
Vertical Jump:
Broad Jump:
20 Yrd Shuttle:
3-Cone Drill:
Stood on Combine Numbers/No Shuttles-Choic
stockholder
April 02, 2024 at 10:45 am
Double J - According to Draft Scout
Dates: 03/21/24
Hand: 10 5/8 Arm: 34 1/2
Wingspan: 83 5/8
Height: 6052
Weight: 305
40 Yrd Dash:
20 Yrd Dash:
10 Yrd Dash: 225 Lb. Bench Reps:
Vertical Jump:
Broad Jump:
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.75
3-Cone Drill: 8.00. Another NFL site lists 20 reps
jannesbjornson
April 02, 2024 at 11:04 am
He tested well @ Pro Day: 5.04, 40 dash; 4.78 shuttle , 8.09 three cone and 1.78 10yard splits. 20 reps @ 225#. All-Academic Big !2, so he has the Intelligence to play O-line and lead. The scouts say his feet are slower on the set-ups and gets moved off the mark with counters by the defender. Some move him to Guard. He would be the project to develop as a RT. Third round.
stockholder
April 02, 2024 at 11:10 am
But would you rather have him backing up Tom.
Or Mike Tenuta.
Leatherhead
April 02, 2024 at 11:30 am
The Crux of the Issue. Whoever we take is irrelevant until he has to line up against a guy like Parsons or Bosa or Hutchinson in a big game, and in your heart, you know you'd rather that be somebody not named Tenuta.
This team could go to the Super Bowl this year. The potential is there. But that's 20 hard games and it's unlikely that both Tom and Walker will start all 20 games.
DoubleJ
April 02, 2024 at 12:55 pm
I've read that the most important measurements for OT are 3-cone and shuttle. For Jones the issue is an 8.09 3-cone is VERY slow and his shuttle is average. For reference Jones scores a 2.59 and 5.10 for RAS at those respective tests. Perhaps he could be moved inside but I see him having an issue dealing with speed or stunts because he doesn't have the lateral quickness. Granted if he is there in late R5 or later then the investment isn't big and you can hopefully mitigate those issues with better coaching.
jannesbjornson
April 02, 2024 at 12:05 pm
The Simulators now account for Pro Days, Sportskeeda:
#26 Jordan Morgan LT Arizona
( a run on OTs in this mock. Most gone in Rd One)
#42 Junior Colson LB Michigan
#48 T. Sweat DT Texas
#86 Caelen Carson CB Wake Forest
#88 B. Coleman OG TCU
#89 Jonah Ellis Edge Utah
#169 Jarius Monroe CB Tulane
#202 Cody Schrader RB Mizzou
#219 D Richardson S A&M
#245 Julani Pearl OT Illinois
#255 Zach Heins TE S.D. State
Get another Free agent Safety. Bring in UDFA LBs and Guards.
golfpacker1
April 02, 2024 at 12:58 pm
When teams are picking late in every round like the Packers are this year, you almost have to reach to get who you want but also to fill your biggest needs. I don't have a clue who Green Bay has at the top of their board, but I would guess Fautanu or JPJ. But in all actuality, the best move would be to trade back, gain more premium picks in the first 5 rounds, and start our draft in the early 2nd round by picking the best IOL available, and then choose the LB that we want. That fills the 2 biggest holes that we have. The extra 2nd or 3rd rounder we would pick up would be invaluable.
I also believe King Sua could play OG at a high level if he can't beat out one of the OTs. If not, I would have a hard time not taking Cooper Beebe with our first pick after the tradeback.
MooPack
April 02, 2024 at 07:08 am
I posted this before comparing physical/athletic traits of Suamataia vs. the highest PFF rated NFL Olineman in Sewell and the Packers best lineman in Jenkins.
"Compare all the RAS scores (physical/athletic) of King Sua and Penei Sewell and Elgton Jenkins. Scary Identical. Jenkins was the lightest by about 15-20 lbs. Sewell the shortest arms. The rest very similar. Sua biggest weakness right now is experience."
Suamataia (9.42) Sewell (9.02) Jenkins (9.32)
Add to that Kingsley put up 31 on the bench at the combine. One more than JPJ with shorter arms. 34 1/4 vs. 32 1/4. Only two guys were higher and they had even shorter arms. That shows very good strength and is usually one area that rookies lack coming in.
Sua and Sewell are cousins and Sewell has taught and trained with him since junior high. His biggest weakness, from what I've seen, is technique. He loses balance at times and over extends. These are coachable things. It could take a year of experience, but I think his ceiling is one of the highest among Olinemen this year.
stockholder
April 02, 2024 at 07:36 am
Kingsley Suamataia OT | BYU is a NO- @25.
He just has too much to Learn.
Too many OTs are projecting into Guards.
And King Sua will end up there too.
I say we can't WAIT.
The best OL for the packers is
Troy Fautanu. OT/IOL | Washington
Sure he might be a guard too.
But he's the best OL.
VERSATILITY CORY. - PERIOD.
DoubleJ
April 02, 2024 at 07:45 am
Historically using an R1 pick on an IOL player is not worth while. Trading up in R1 for an IOL is an even worse idea. IOL is a place where you can get top quality players in R3 or later.
Suamataia is a player who could be used at LT, LG, RG, and RT. All players need to learn things going into the NFL. Suamataia is only 21 and very athletic. That means he has a high ceiling.
stockholder
April 02, 2024 at 08:01 am
There is a lot of truth in what you're saying.
But the High Ceiling can turn into a bust
just as fast.
King Sua has 34" arms and decent hands.
There are better players for the inside.
Asking him to be Bahk is a bit too much.
DoubleJ
April 02, 2024 at 08:12 am
A few weeks ago Mike Wahle scouted Rasheed Walker based on his pro tape from last year. His conclusion was that outside of Joe Alt there isn't a better OT in this draft that is right now better than Walker. Note that over the last 6 weeks of the season Walker played like a top 15 OT (that is LT and RT). Walker's issues are things that can be fix via coaching and experience. This means that OT is good, LG is good, but the C & RG are question marks. Those are positions that you can address in R2 (maybe) or later in R3-5. We also don't know what the Packers think about Caleb Jone and Luke Tenuta. If the Packers think they are viable swing OTs then OT is good overall.
LambeauPlain
April 02, 2024 at 08:54 am
I enjoy Wahle's analysis, but his take on Walker seems a lot of homerism and some hyperbole.
Walker is better than ANY OL in this draft not named Alt?
Right. A 7th round draft pick who did not play his rookie season until Dec '22, and then only 4 ST snaps. His second year, after Bakht went down, finally had to start but share snaps with Nijman for several games for the coaches to decide during the season (not during Camp), who was the better LT. It seemed clear Nijman thought he was the most deserving...didn't feel he was getting opportunities, and began to play like he knew he was not going to be a Packer in 2024. His on field play reflected it. Walker continued to start and play well.
I think Walker is an improving player...but better than all OL but Alt? With one of the best OL quality and quantity
drafts in many years?
If the Packers draft a OT early, Walker is going to have competition again to earn the spot.
Coldworld
April 02, 2024 at 10:07 am
I have not found Wahle to be a homer at all in anything that I’ve watched, so that surprises me greatly. I will have to go find that podcast.
DoubleJ
April 02, 2024 at 10:11 am
Here is the review of Walker by Wahle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TOBrsJVKE4
Coldworld
April 02, 2024 at 10:15 am
Thank you.
That’s actually a very interesting analysis of areas that Walker needs to improve and why this is experience /technique as opposed to physical talent, together with some illustrations of necessary raw ability existing.
If anything, it helped me understand the future upside of Walker from improved technique and that that is is biggest weakness at this point.
I found nothing homerish in this, but it does explain why, if Walker works on his craft, they believe he’s should ascend further. This is presumably roughly what Stenavich was referencing in saying that Walker had plenty of room for growth and a nice explanation of why and why growth is credible.
Well worth watching.
DoubleJ
April 03, 2024 at 09:33 am
This is why I was saying that the whole group think by draftniks saying the Packers have to go OT in R1 makes no sense. Walker's deficiencies are things that are coachable and or come with experience. He is very athletic so he already has the raw tools. Now it is just honing them so he is consistent. IMO drafting an OT is more for a backup or if you decide you want to move Tom to C/G and have someone like Tyler Guyton as your starting RT.
DoubleJ
April 02, 2024 at 10:11 am
Walker won the backup job in camp. The first couple games looked OK but then he slipped and that is when the in season competition started and they were switching series in games. Just because he was an R7 pick doesn't mean anything. Mark Tauscher was an R7 pick and he was a good player for a decade. Had Walker come out for the 2021 draft he was probably an R2 grade. Even in 2022 NFL.com had him as an R3 prospect and a lot of other places saw him as an R2/3. He kind of slipped through the cracks. Don't forget that he started at LT while there ahead of Olumuyiwa Fashanu (who played RT and switched to LT after Walker left). For reference Walker ended the season with a 66.4 PFF grade which is very slightly above average. Remember though that his grade was in the 50's around mid season so his play really had to improve at the end of the season to raise the grade that much.
I don't think it was hyperbole or homerism on Wahle's part. While he did play for the Packers for a long time, I think he was giving an honest opinion of his play and tape. He did a good job of pointing out the negatives and saying how it can be improved. Remember Wahle was VERY good fundamentally as a player. On top of that he didn't say that Walker would still be better than those players in 2 or 3 years. He just said that right now the only OT that is better than Walker is Alt. However, Walker does have the athleticism and tool-set to become even better than he was at the end of the year.
Leatherhead
April 02, 2024 at 11:41 am
Walker is a guy like a lot of 22 year olds...he wasn't quite ready yet. He need a year to do the drills, pump the iron, study the film,etc. And his head was spinning, and then we put Newman next to him when Jenkins was hurt, so that was less than ideal.
My eyes tell me Walker played well down the stretch.
DoubleJ
April 02, 2024 at 12:59 pm
PFF graded Walker as a top 15 overall OT (that is both RT & LT) over the final 6 weeks of the season. His deficiencies are all things that are coachable and tend to get better with more experience. Overall Walker has the athleticism and tool-set.
Coldworld
April 02, 2024 at 07:00 pm
I found one stat that really surprised me after the season, not that the eyes didn’t indicate good play, but just how good maybe I missed.
Walker was second in the entire NFL among tackles in pass block win rate, according to ESPN, Only behind potential Hall of Famer Trent Williams due to the latter having faced more double teams — they both have a 96% win rate. Tom had 91% (16th). Over the season they have Walker double teamed more than Tom.
Walker's PFF grades do indeed suggest a gradual upward curve:
from weeks 2 to 8: 57.4, 73.2, 63.4, 47.6, 47.5, 47.5, 53.0.
After week 9: 76.9, 61.0, 73.5, 65.7, 71.9, 67.7, 88.7.
Tom’s overall season grade was 77.8 by comparison. Any player nudging 70 or above is a pretty good starter.
Yes PFF is by no means perfect, but few players rate as high as Walker after week 9 without deserving recognition as being quality starters.
Can he sustain that? Can he surpass it? I don’t know, but the fact is he did sustain a high level of play for half a season. That should give pause for thought, it did me.
DoubleJ
April 03, 2024 at 07:41 am
"Can he sustain that? Can he surpass it? I don’t know, but the fact is he did sustain a high level of play for half a season. That should give pause for thought, it did me."
He went against some very good players during the later half of the season as well. Hopefully Walker is able to clean up the technical issues he has. If he does then he could be sustaining those high 70s and 80s grades for the whole season.
golfpacker1
April 03, 2024 at 09:19 am
Walker was projected on multiple sites to be drafted as high as Round 3. We got a huge steal with that guy.
What I see in this draft is how there is a strong group of players at GBs positions of need that line up very nicely with every one of our first five picks. Even if we trade back because:
We can get a great starting potential OL from #25 to #45
#41 lines up perfectly to pick 1 of the Top 3 LBs
# 58 will have 8 of the Top 10 Safeties- maybe Nubin & Kinchen too
#88 will get us a CB rated from # 5 to #10
We can stay @ #91 or make a small move back and still get a Top 10 RB, plus an extra mid round pick
The first round move back gains an extra Day 2 pick & an extra early Day 3 pick.
Cheezehead72
April 02, 2024 at 08:17 am
David Bakhtiari 6'4" and 310 lbs, arms 34" hands 9.5" drafted 4th round
Kingsley Suamataria 6'5" and 326 lbs arms 34.25 hands 10.625.
He has the uncoachable qualities to be a good tackle oh by they way he benched 31 reps.
Coldworld
April 02, 2024 at 10:15 am
Bakh’s build was the reason he dropped, not his strength. He was thought undersized and under strength. However, he had exceptional balance and very quick feet. That is exactly the opposite of Suamataria. Bakh is analagous to Tom for illustrative purposes, and, more relevantly in the draft, to Barton.
Barton is not my first choice at any position. I see better pure tackles, guards and Cs. His weight and strength isn’t ideal inside, but he’s agile and quick fitted enough to compensate, as Tom did. If one wants versatility and ability to contribute now inside and out on either side, then he’s the best prospect.
He’s Tom on paper. Now is that a first round proposition? Fair point. It depends if you think he can or will soon be able to start at one and be there on merit. If you want a capable swing player while he spends a year adding strength, he’s a prime candidate.
DoubleJ
April 02, 2024 at 01:09 pm
"He’s Tom on paper."
One thing to remember is that Tom was said to be the best pass blockers in the 2022 draft. During his entire college career he played over 3000 snaps and only gave up 2 sacks (Packers.com Bio but PFF has him giving up 4). In terms of PFF grade in college Tom had an 84.8 grade and Barton a 75.9 grade. That is a big difference in grade coming in.
golfpacker1
April 03, 2024 at 09:27 am
Barton gave up 10 sacks too. Barton will make a living playing inside, so if other players like Powers-Johnson, Cooper Beebe or even Dominic Puni are better IOL, then why pick Barton with the idea that he could play OT a very small percentage of his career. If he isn't the best IOL available , why pick him?
As far as King Sua goes, he is younger than Barton, more athletic, is probably a better OG candidate, and he will undoubtedly continue to get better. How could anyone here be unhappy if we picked Sua, especially if after a trade back?
LambeauPlain
April 03, 2024 at 10:40 am
Another reason Bakht slipped to the 4th round was he played for winless Colorado and came out as a Junior and flew under the radar.
Packers truly do their homework to find these diamond in the rough in the mid rounds.
Cheezehead72
April 02, 2024 at 08:09 am
Actually the success rate for picking an OL player in the first round is higher than most positions. Now I will agree that you can find good OL in later rounds and maybe it is better to draft another position in the first round but if a team needs a OL and there is a good one out there go get him.
A good offense starts upfront with those big guys. A very good offensive line makes the RBs and QBs better.
DoubleJ
April 02, 2024 at 08:14 am
I know that OL is a highly successful position in R1. I was getting at using an R1 at IOL specifically. Sure they may be great but historically the difference in quality between an R1 IOL and R4 IOL is minimal. Therefore you are better off using your R1 on a position of higher value than IOL.
Cheezehead72
April 02, 2024 at 08:25 am
That is why I wrote, "now I will agree that you can find good OL in later rounds and maybe it is better to draft another position in the first round".
golfpacker1
April 02, 2024 at 01:08 pm
You are 100% right DoubleJ, and Stockholder is just wrong. Sua is a great candidate to excel at both positions, which is exactly what we want. The whole we can't draft the best IOL in the first round is one of those Bull$hit NFL "rules/guidelines" that always has me scratching my head. Would anyone have taken a chance on a QB like Patrick Mahomes 10-15 years ago? Not a chance because he didn't fit the NFL criteria/mold for QBs. Now all teams want his type.
I would always have the expectation that a first round pick should be starting from Day 1.
But in the case of OL this year, we are looking for potential starter/strong multiple position players with our first pick, either @ #25 or better yet after a trade back.
DoubleJ
April 02, 2024 at 02:18 pm
"The whole we can't draft the best IOL in the first round is one of those Bull$hit NFL "rules/guidelines" that always has me scratching my head."
I follow the idea that drafting IOL in R1 is a waste. In terms of G & C teams don't seem to be good at ordering them. This is similar to off ball LBs. Therefore a lot of time when you draft one in R1 you miss. In the end it is usually pretty easy to find IOL in R2 or later. In fact a lot of top IOL players are from R3 or later. For example Josh Sitton R4, TJ Lang R4, and Marco Rivera R6 are all day 3 picks for IOL that ended up being top 10 at their positions. In 2022 there were 3 LG/RG drafted in R1 (Kenyon Green, Zion Johnson, Cole Strange). Green was injured last year but in 2022 he had a 37.7 PFF grade, Johnson graded at 57.6 in 2023, and Strange graded at 64.6 in 2023. At OT Zach Tom, who was an R4 pick, graded 77.8. Most draft areas had Tom as an IOL. It just goes to show that IOL is found later in the draft quite often.
golfpacker1
April 03, 2024 at 09:53 am
DoubleJ, I would venture to guess that GB and all NFL teams have had a lot more misses than hits on OL after the 2nd round of the draft. I just have to question the idea of "This is the way we have always done it in the NFL or else it will fail." If our biggest need is IOL then we should fill that hole first. Not pick a DT because he is the BPA, so he can sit and watch.
Someone will want to trade up, they always do, and then we can take the best OL available to fill our need. When teams are picking late in the rounds, there is a good chance they will reach somewhat to get a player they want or need. Who Freakin Cares? Get the player you need.
DoubleJ
April 03, 2024 at 11:18 am
If Murphy II drops to GB I think they have to pick him. Otherwise if the board isn't great and the BPA is IOL at 25 then ideally see if you can drop back. Historically NFL teams have done a very poor job of ranking off ball LB and IOL. Most of the time the IOL drafted in R2 isn't any better than the IOL drafted in R4. This is why it doesn't make sense to rush to drafting IOL. Peter Bukowski had an interesting pod cast today. I suggest looking at it.
stockholder
April 02, 2024 at 02:34 pm
Tony Mandrich Or Jason Spriggs.
Take your choice.
You just cannot take a OL
@25 or @41 and expect a SB win.
Wolf said OTs and Cbs are for
building a Team.
I stated you could not expect K.Sua to be BAHK
Coldworld
April 02, 2024 at 09:20 am
I just do not see him being there. I would not trade up to get Fantanu either. There’s enough good talent alternatives that that capital can be used better elsewhere
stockholder
April 02, 2024 at 11:05 am
The problem is Rhyan and Newman.
Fantanu is a starter at RG.
The question marks come at LT.
He is listed as the #1 Guard in the draft.
Stability or another Hanson?
.
jannesbjornson
April 02, 2024 at 12:16 pm
Then, snag Beebe with a move Up in Rd Two. He held his own vs the Texas heavy weights. T. Sweat knocked the Washington guys backwards in the Playoffs.
DoubleJ
April 02, 2024 at 03:22 pm
Might be able to get him at 41 anyways.
golfpacker1
April 02, 2024 at 01:11 pm
No trades up please. We don't need to throw away premium picks on any player that we have to move up to get. The next player in line at that position group will be 99% as good, especially in round one. Thanks for posting that Coldworld.
stockholder
April 02, 2024 at 02:36 pm
Wrong- We need the missing pieces first.
Not the back-ups.
DoubleJ
April 02, 2024 at 02:45 pm
Trading up for IOL player makes no sense. Steve Hutchinson (2001 - 2012) is a HOF LG. Him and Marco Rivera (1996 - 2006) played parts of their careers at the same time. During their prime of each of their careers the difference between Hutchinson (HOF player) and Rivera (1 time all pro) was minimal. However, Hutchinson was an R1 pick and Rivera was an R6 pick. To me that means that Seattle (Hutchinson's drafting team) could have gotten better value going in a different direction.
stockholder
April 02, 2024 at 03:04 pm
Again if you have a hole.
You must draft it.
Starter ! SB or bust.
You don't go out and spend 65 mil.
For a safety, if your rebuilding.
DoubleJ
April 02, 2024 at 03:30 pm
If the top player at your biggest position of need has an R3 grade you don't use your R1 pick on that play just to plug a hole. You draft according to your board and if you run into a point where you have two players with the same grade you get the one that fills a need. Basically just because you draft an OT in R1 doesn't mean you are trying to rebuild or it is a waste. Also by not drafting IOL in R1 doesn't mean that you aren't trying to win now. It usually means that you view draft positional value and know that the difference between IOL1 (R1 player) and IOL5 (R3 player) is minimal and often IOL5 ends up better overall.
golfpacker1
April 02, 2024 at 02:41 pm
Fautanu is probably 99% gone by #25 too, and not worth moving up for. Sua will be available early 2nd round after trading back.
stockholder
April 02, 2024 at 03:10 pm
I wouldn't draft either now.
ILB and SS are Holes.
With your OL picks-
you're creating them.
it's DeJean or Nubin.
Nubin is still a football player.
His tape shows Field quickness.
Every board has him at 4.5-
DoubleJ
April 02, 2024 at 03:32 pm
No ILB or SS is worth an R1 pick. They would be major reaches since both classes are weak AND ILB is typically a position that NFL teams suck at ordering. Therefore you end up taking a worse player in R1 than someone does in R2 or R3.
stockholder
April 02, 2024 at 05:40 pm
DeJean
Coldworld
April 02, 2024 at 06:44 pm
DeJean is intriguing, but he’s hardly a safety in fact, just in the minds of some who see that he’s not a perimeter corner. I have my doubts about a round one conversion like that too.
At this point I don’t like the odds of a player I think is a relevant true first round talent falling. If one does slip through, grab him if he’s at all positionally relevant. If not see if anyone wants to trade up. If that fails, then the least worst option may be Barton. He keeps options open better than any other since he can cover 3 positions of need credibly.
golfpacker1
April 03, 2024 at 10:06 am
Ok Stock, lets argue. Why in the world would you select a Safety @ #25 when all but 2 of the Top 10 will be available @ #58?
The idea of a LB pick @ #25 is even worse. All but one of the Top 5 LBs, and Cooper isn't a lock to be gone either, will be available @ pick #41. Colson is the safest pick of the Top 3 LBs, and he isn't a Walker clone.
Overreaching in the 4th round on is one thing, especially if that team is picking late in the rounds, but this draft has the GB needed position groups falling right in line with our first 5 picks.
I like DeJean, but if it comes down to it and I have read you arguing to not do it @ other positions, if we need a Safety and 8 of the Top 10 will be available when we pick @ #58, Why not pick an actual Safety that fits our Safety needs? Instead of hoping DeJean can make the switch and play at a high level befitting a first round pick.
T7Steve
April 02, 2024 at 07:48 am
I only slightly disagree with one thing you said, Cory. "most importantly, get better at the second-most important position in football." One for one maybe the QB is most important, but 5 to one the O-line HAS to be the most important, and the most important to the QB also.
We need to get better all across the line. Not necessarily different players. Just playing better together and earlier in the season. If you have a top 5 O-line, you have a chance for a top 5 QB and team. If you don't, you not only probably won't, you can't have a successful team.
Draft O-line early and often, then get some projects later too. O-line, ILB, S, RB, and CBs in the order when the best fall to them or they can trade around for.
Coldworld
April 02, 2024 at 08:39 am
Suamataia is a liability in the run game at this point. Yes, he’s got all the physical attributes they look for, though there is some question about his bend and foot speed. It’s probably not accidental that he avoided both the 3 cone and shuttle. I question his IOL capabilities as a result.
Sorry, but this is an athlete who has some questions for me as a football player. He’s certainly going to need work and a considerable amount with respect to run blocking.
For once I agree with Stockholder, just not a pick i’d make in the first round.
We are in the midst of the annual period where measurables seduce, but one has to look at things in context. Suamataia is not a guy I want to help us run the ball, and without Jones we need to get better not worse in that respect.
If you want versatility, I’d far rather go Barton. Yes he’s got short arms. I hate to tell you, so does Tom. His wingspan is a whole half inch greater than Barton’s. Why doesn’t that matter for Tom? Good technique helps, but the real reason is his great balance and incredibly fast feet.
That’s something one can’t say of Suamataia. One can say it of Barton, and Barton can play IOL now. I am not saying that Barton is the holy grail at 25, but if I’m going to take a versatile player, he’s streets ahead of Suamataia and upgrades our IOL options immediately as well as being a candidate to develop like Tom as a swing at least. For the RAS heads out there, Barton, despite being dinged for wingspan and height scores a near perfect, including agility and explosion.
Looking at a player and going “wow” in isolation is a great way to pick poorly. Suamataia in round one would be a classic example of doing just that without context of his weaknesses or competition.
Ideally, I see Barton as a round 2 prospect, partly because I see him as needing to add some strength, but if no shock fall occurs and we want to go OL at 25, I can’t see a better prospect to slightly reach for unless the team is willing to go for a pure IOL like Powers-Johnson. I doubt that the packers will in round one, but I’d be happy to see him at C or G. Like Barton, I think he’s a second rounder by rights too. I could see a trade back and trade up in the second to follow just as easily.
T7Steve
April 02, 2024 at 08:56 am
They need some better run blocking all around. If they get better at that, that will also help them protect the QB.
golfpacker1
April 02, 2024 at 01:20 pm
Sorry Coldworld, the question that always come up for me with Barton, is since he would be playing OG for the Packers 95% of his time in Green Bay and OT or OC 5% of the time, Is he a better OG than Cooper Beebe or even Sua for that matter. I don't think Barton is a better OT, let alone OG than Beebe or Sua. Beebe has played over 1200 strong snaps @ RT and LT his first 2 years in college allowing 3 total sacks. As well as 1 sack his last 2 years @ LG in over 1600 snaps. I would bet he could play OC if needed too.
I would take Beebe or Sua over Barton every day.
Coldworld
April 02, 2024 at 06:20 pm
That’s a fair point, which is why I stated above that I don’t see him as the best T,C or G, but this article was about versatility. If we want a very good 5 position guy he’s the best prospect in this draft that I see, and better than the one proposed.
Normally I wouldn’t consider a swing player that high, but I know how much the Packers value them and I think he’s good enough to play any position now even if he doesn’t become an immediate starter, which could happen. Part of that is that I’m leery of throwing 2 of the first 3 picks at the OL with the needs elsewhere.
If we pick a T early, he’d better be ready now because otherwise we will be largely wasting that pick in terms if this year. There are interesting developmental T prospects later. Better to pick an IOL specialist early and a different position or trade back in the first than take a guy who needs a lot of work technically, unless one of the elite Ts slides. Barton represents an alternative. Depth at T who can help now inside too.
golfpacker1
April 02, 2024 at 02:44 pm
Sua is 21 years old. I would guess he gets even better as he gets older. Barton will be an OG and there are better OGs available 2nd round.
LambeauPlain
April 02, 2024 at 09:09 am
The article was about versatility, that ML covets. I guess Suamataia has table stakes versatility in that he has played T on the right and left side.
I believe the versatility looked for is a OL who can play outside and inside....T & G or C or all three like Tom and Jenks.
I don't see any advantage waiting until the 2nd round to relieve the young man of the "pressure" of being a first rounder. You really think this creeps into Gutey's calculus? No way...especially if the Packer personnel team agrees with you: "I watch Suamataia I see a guy that is hungry. A guy that wants to get better."
Waiting until early 2nd to get your guy could ensure he's gone.
I still like Barton more as he can cover all 5 spots and provides real versatility.
Coldworld
April 02, 2024 at 09:50 am
Gute doesn’t go off our ratings or those of the pundits, so no concern there. Barton’s pro day likely makes him a consensus late round one now anyway.
Tony Pauline: “Graham Barton has had a phenomenal day. He timed under 5 seconds in the forty with some watches reading as fast as 4.95 seconds. His short shuttle time came in around 4.55 seconds and three cone 7.32 seconds. Barton looks terrific in position drills and the former offensive tackle has done a lot of work at center. Scouts on hand texted me saying they believe Barton has secured a place for himself in round one.”
If one is looking for a pure IOL late in the draft, keep an eye on Jacob Monk, also from Duke. He played through a bad ankle last year and is not an obvious candidate for outside.
40-yard dash: 5.09
10-yard split: 1.66 (tied Sua Opeta [2019] for the fastest split by an offensive lineman in combine history)
Vertical jump: 29.5"
Broad jump: 9'0"
3-cone drill: N/A
20-yard shuttle: N/A
Bench press: 31
Hand: 10
Arm: 32 3/8
Again, I don’t like seeing agility missing, but Monk is a plus run blocker and character who should be available in day 3.
golfpacker1
April 02, 2024 at 01:24 pm
Barton only played OC for 400 snaps as a freshman and hasn't played there since. He gave up 10 sacks in 4 years @ OT. Beebe had 4 total sacks while playing 1200 snaps @ OT and 1600 snaps @ OG. Brandon Coleman or Dominic Puni might also be better multi use OL than Barton too.
HarryHodag
April 02, 2024 at 09:12 am
The Packers need interior linemen, little question there. Myers contract ends after next season and he could be gone. No one knows if Rhyan is the answer at guard. This is a draft loaded with good tackles, both left and right. Royce Newman?
But I smirk a bit at the clamor for tackles since Walker and Tom were the starters for a team that went into the playoffs last year. Did Jordan Love get sacked multiple times? No.
The abundance of tackles and history of drafting linemen leads me to believe draft pick 25(if they keep it) is going to go to a position of need first, or the best athlete available. You can get a really good lineman in the second or third round.
The first round pick should always be someone who can start right away if needed. Van Ness last year couldn't be denied the field for example.
I'm not buying the theory that the Packers "need' to draft on o-lineman first. Better a safety or linebacker.
Bitternotsour
April 02, 2024 at 09:21 am
Generally speaking over the course of 3 decades the Packers have had great O-lines. They've made hay in middle rounds. No need to upset the apple cart. The draft strategy is sound, whether they expend capital in the first round or in the 4th.
I trust the front office.
T7Steve
April 02, 2024 at 09:37 am
BPA? Or BPA at a position of need?
I'm for BPA at a position of need, except it could tend to be a reach if it's in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd rounds. It seems they've reached in the 3rd rounds.
Coldworld
April 02, 2024 at 10:05 am
BPA is always murky. Not only is all scouting essentially significantly subjective, but the question “for what”? Has to be answered.
A GM is tasked with finding the combination of players who will
make his team the best it can be over the next 1-3 years typically. That isn’t the best athlete or the best at a position necessarily, but who improves us most and when.
Pure BPA, were it possible to assess, would lead to overloading and uneven rosters. We know what happens then. Need is always an unspoken factor. The problems come when it becomes the driving one.
Bitternotsour
April 02, 2024 at 10:51 am
BPA requires an expansive view of both your roster and the time window. Fortunately it's in Green Bay's front office DNA.
golfpacker1
April 02, 2024 at 01:30 pm
BPA for the Packers this year would almost surely be an OL or CB. The best LBs and S won't be getting picked until round 2, so they wouldnt be BPA. We don't need an Edge this year so that BPA is out too. The same with QB, TE, WR.
Kenny Clark is still playing great, but he is the next top player we will have to replace. By #25 the first top 3 DT will be gone. CB isn't a top need yet either.
BPA is for 2025, not 2024. DT & Edge are strong and deep groups in 2025 draft.
GregC
April 02, 2024 at 09:44 am
Yeah, Walker has been overlooked by a lot of people. That's why I'm not so enthused about drafting an OT in the first round. There is such an odd dynamic in this draft, with the Packers' positions of greatest need (linebacker, safety, and interior O-line) being non-premium positions.
golfpacker1
April 02, 2024 at 06:50 pm
The argument then Harry is no Safeties or LBs are rated as first round prospects. So we would be really overreaching to pick either position in round 1. Even before Nubin & Kinchen hurt their draft stock, neither were 1st rounders. And really the 3 best LB prospects will probably still be available @ #41, so why not wait to select LB @ #41 and Safety @ #58?
It comes back to the first pick and first round IOL options @ #25 would be Fautanu and Powers-Johnson. Or trade back for GBs 3rd choice and gain a Day 2 pick & maybe an early Day 3 pick.
Turophile
April 02, 2024 at 10:10 am
I'd rather have Barton for his superb versatility, but if you want Barton it will cost you pick 25.
Suamataia is probably there at pick 41. I'm surprised that Suamataia's run blocking isn't better, but he is by no means a bad prospect.
Alberta_Packer
April 02, 2024 at 11:31 am
I doubt that Gutekunst will spend his highest draft capital on an OT - who is currently not as versatile as advertised - due to his run blocking deficiencies. Especially with the addition of, and investment in, Josh Jacobs - which presumes a stronger run-blocking O-line.
golfpacker1
April 02, 2024 at 01:35 pm
Unless that absolute top guy is still on the board for the Packers @ #25, the best move is to trade back. Yeah we do have 11 picks right now, but 5 are at #169 or later. The biggest needs we have really align with the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds. We can fill all the needs with top players at their position in the first 5 rounds. Trading back for more picks in those rounds make the most sense.
Alberta_Packer
April 02, 2024 at 02:30 pm
I think that there is a 50% probability that the Packers will trade down in the first round. In Andy Herman's recent 1st round mock draft - he had the Packers trade down with the Chiefs - their 25 for the Chiefs 32 + 95. Most interesting is that he had the Packers taking Tyler Guyton at 32. Up to now I considered Guyton outside of the Packers O-line parameters. However, as Herman is someone whom I respect his opinion(s) and knowledge - I re-visited Guyton as an OT prospect. I must say that he is intriguing. Furthermore, the Packers received another 3rd round pick. Just another arrow in Gutie's quiver - especially for the many enticing targets in the first half of the draft.
DoubleJ
April 02, 2024 at 03:34 pm
With a 3rd R3 you can package 2 of them to move up to top of R3, stay pat and use one of a top RB, OR if nothing is there for you at 95 then drop into the top or R4 and get a top R5 as well for a player like Khristian Boyd.
golfpacker1
April 02, 2024 at 06:54 pm
That 3rd Day 2 pick will be early in the round unless we don't trade past the end of the first.
No reason to trade up as there will be plenty of talent in the 3rd round. RBs alone there will probably be 6 of the Top 10.