Cory's Corner: Sean Clifford Is Tardy
His throws and reads need to speed up.
Sean Clifford played the most of any Packers quarterback with 26 pass attempts, but I wasn’t impressed.
Clifford did showcase his blazing speed on a 13-yard keeper in the second half, which ultimately led to a touchdown.
But if Clifford really wants to be the Packers backup quarterback, he needs to show more than he did.
To sum it up, he’s just late. He’s late on his reads, he’s late on his throws and he’s late feeling the pressure. And to make matters worse, there were numerous times where his throws didn’t have the necessary juice to keep drives alive.
I was unsure when the Packers picked Clifford. I know that Clifford set the all-time record for wins, completion percentage, passing yards and passing touchdowns at Penn State but even with all those accolades, he still made plenty of questionable decisions.
He was able to get by with late reads in college. And he was able to skirt by with an average arm.
But that doesn’t work in the NFL. Making a late read combined with a throw that needs more juice is a recipe for disaster.
Could Clifford be a solid leader and excellent motivator? By all means yes. Strictly from a technical aspect, Clifford is behind the eight ball. On numerous throws he was off his back foot — which doesn’t help him because of his lack of arm strength and and his eyes were often locked on one target.
The question is, can Clifford win a couple games if Jordan Love misses time with an injury? After Friday’s game, I don’t see it. The NFL game is a lot faster. Granted, that was Clifford’s first appetizer as a pro quarterback, but his reads and arm strength have plenty of work before this team can trust him with the offensive keys.
As we move forward this offseason, coach Matt LaFleur, general manager Brian Gutekunst and others have to find out how much of a leader they want from their backup quarterback. His leadership and camaraderie is apparent after seeing Clifford scamper 27 yards and watching all the smiles that were present on the sideline.
What do the Packers want from Clifford and in turn what can Clifford give the Packers? I would imagine the Packers want to be able to get first downs by not committing unnecessary mistakes. Clifford can give the Packers a leadership edge and a calming presence.
However, technically, he isn’t ready to play at this level. He’s a touch behind and in pro football, it’s like watching a TV show on a 10-second delay.
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__________________________
Cory Jennerjohn is a graduate from UW-Oshkosh and has been in sports media for over 15 years. He was a co-host on "Clubhouse Live" and has also done various radio and TV work as well. He has written for newspapers, magazines and websites. He currently is a columnist for CHTV and also does various podcasts. He recently earned his Masters degree from the University of Iowa. He can be found on Twitter: @Coryjennerjohn
__________________________
Comments (189)
dobber
August 12, 2023 at 06:24 am
To quote David Lee Roth: "I don't FEEL tardy..."
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 08:19 am
Damn if that wasn’t my thought bubble reading the entire piece.
Walker/Jenkins/Runyan/Rhyan/Jones
After a beautiful pull by Runyan/Rhyan R springs Taylor for 5, Clifford relievers a BEAUTIFUL DART between 2 defenders to TOURE!
“I don’t feel tardy…”
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 08:40 am
#8 definitely had moments that he shone :)
I was surprised to see JRJ at C so much. I couldn't really evaluate him vs Schneider at C. Did you get any feel for that?
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 02:47 pm
I didn't have a ton of time to review last night's game. Plus, I was so locked into relaying what was happening real time, typing all that shit on my phone... I didn't really see the game as I normally would.
Watched some 1st half again this morning. WOW. Right up to Cliff's 2nd pick, and have to say that I'm impressed overall.
When I review, I look for what caused anomalies. Will pound some more in tonight after work.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 13, 2023 at 09:25 am
The NFL app has some interesting stats. 14 receivers targeted! Those with 100% completion:
I'll put Tyler Davis and Tyler Goodson down first out of respect for the fallen, 2 for 2 and 1 for 1 respectively. Both with 9 yards.
Doubs and Reed both with 2 for 2, both with 20 yards. (1 got 21)
Patrick Taylor got 5 for 5, but with a total of 8 yards.
#33 got 1 for 1 but we knew that, 1 play and he was out. Uninjured :)
Bo Melton caught his 1 target. For 3 yards.
Both rookie TEs went 1 for 3. Big #49 went 0 for 1.
Wicks Toure and Heath all went 3 for 4.
#9 went 2 for 3.
27 for 36. Exactly 75%. Roughly similar to Te17 and Lazard's career avg reception rates in GB. We'd all like to see more high probability attempts completed but we can roll like this :)
Thegreatreynoldo
August 12, 2023 at 09:14 am
More proof of a misspent youth, eh?
dobber
August 12, 2023 at 10:05 am
I brought my pencil!!!
SicSemperTyrannis
August 13, 2023 at 09:28 am
Gimme something to write on, man!
CheesedDeadHead
August 12, 2023 at 10:53 am
I once had 2nd row seats to a Van Halen concert (a GF of a good buddy had family in the ticket office - remember them, before TicketMonster). Couldn't really hear for 2 days with all the ringing in my ears.
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 02:48 pm
You. Lucky. Dog.
!!!!
SicSemperTyrannis
August 13, 2023 at 09:30 am
Fun fact:
Kiss first gained popularity because they were louder than anybody else. Yup, that's it. Also their first name was not fit to print, their agent toned it down.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 07:27 pm
And the cradle
the cradle will rock
Oppy
August 12, 2023 at 10:15 am
I have sprinkled in this quote randomly during conversations whenever I can since the mid to late 80's and I am always surprised at how many people have zero idea of the reference. I appreciate those who catch it, but if I'm being completely honest, I find great enjoyment when I use the phrase and the person opposite me has zero idea WTF I am talking about.
Oppy
August 12, 2023 at 06:46 pm
Who downvotes a comment like this?
lol, I got me some butt-hurt hater.
BAMABADGER
August 12, 2023 at 06:29 am
I assume you wrote this to get a reaction? I ain't biting.
Barnacle
August 12, 2023 at 07:20 am
Cory should be cut. What a totally crap article!
croatpackfan
August 12, 2023 at 08:24 am
This Cory performance is worse than 1-6(7) performance of Anders Carlson few weeks ago.
FMFDOC
August 12, 2023 at 11:56 am
I agree, lazy journalism. No proof to back up opinions.
marpag1
August 13, 2023 at 09:33 pm
"Cory should be cut."
That's a lovely thought, of course, but it seems pretty clear this board doesn't make cuts. Fans just need to hope and pray that bad writers will pull a Zach Jacobson and mercifully retire or disappear.
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 03:07 pm
"The Force is strong with this one."
LOLOLOL
HarryHodag
August 12, 2023 at 06:41 am
I don't know what game the author was watching but I thought Clifford looked damn good considering lots of factors.
He's a rookie, dude. Over the decades I've seen many, many qb's try out in preseason. Clifford ran the offense well, didn't flinch, and got the job done.
We'll see but I think he has a good shot at backup qb.
dobber
August 12, 2023 at 06:49 am
I tend to agree. For a rookie getting his first shots? Not sure what he was looking for.
"I was unsure when the Packers picked Clifford....He was able to get by with late reads in college. And he was able to skirt by with an average arm."
I think this section says all we needed to know.
Doofapotamus
August 12, 2023 at 07:12 am
You'd think this guy was expecting him to play like a top 5 pick. Not a 5th rounder.
mrtundra
August 12, 2023 at 07:19 am
It looked to me that the reports of Clifford having "an average arm" were wrong. He was slinging it, last night, in his first game as a Packer!
Coldworld
August 12, 2023 at 08:25 am
I was thinking back to Rodgers and Favre’s first preseason action. Any who can recall will know what the comparison says about this piece.
Clifford impressed me more than I expected. He made the sort of mistakes under pressure I’d expect. I will say that the interception when Kraft let the ball be ripped from him was, for me, all on Kraft. A TE should never lose those: even if the ball was not perfect, it was not bad. The other was a classic stare down, after which I didn’t notice a repeat. I was not high on Clifford, but I thought he showed why he’s out number 2.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 08:45 am
Agree on Kraft. Big guy should have been able to hold onto the ball. He absolutely NEEDS to! I think this can probably be taught, and learned. At least I hope so. I did not see Kraft being a YAC monster last night; it's one game, in the preseason, and his first in the league.
What, me worry?
Coldworld
August 12, 2023 at 09:01 am
Shooting from the hip, I see talent in Kraft, but a guy who is struggling to adjust to the leap mentally and physically. Hopefully he adjusts. Allen may yet prove to be a better option at this point.
dobber
August 12, 2023 at 09:16 am
"Allen may yet prove to be a better option at this point."
Well, apparently Davis suffered a season ending injury last night (knee or ankle, depending on the report), so he might get his chance.
Coldworld
August 12, 2023 at 11:09 am
Yes, I did not reference Davis for that reason.
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 11:11 am
Those very words literally rang in my head when Davis got hit. I had been wondering same myself. Allen is HUGE.
CheesedDeadHead
August 12, 2023 at 10:22 am
"I will say that the interception when Kraft let the ball be ripped from him was, for me, all on Kraft."
I don't think he had the ball ripped from him. The pass was thrown slightly behind him. The DB hit him and pushed him farther "upfield" before/just as the ball arrived and was in direct line of the pass after he hit Kraft. The DB got 2 hands on the ball in his breadbasket and Kraft was leaning back more with only 1 arm to get a hand on the ball due to the bump pushing farther away from the trajectory of the pass. Clifford throws that ball on Kraft's center or leads him and we aren't having this discussion. That was a good play by the DB and a poor pass by Clifford.
I wonder if some of the "weak arm" take on Clifford is that he is often throwing behind the receiver when he is in motion so it looks like his arm is "weak". IIRC he also threw behind the receiver on the 1st INT, but it was irrelevant because the DB had jumped the route and would have been able to get a ball even on target (these aren't huge balls behind the WR, but enough that it opens the defender to make a play).
Coldworld
August 12, 2023 at 11:13 am
Looking at it a few times, I can’t get there. The pass wasn’t perfect, it was good enough and no TE should let it be ripped from him. Yes, it was a very good defensive play, one that the throw could have made even harder, but Kraft can’t be out muscled by a S in that way on that pass as delivered if he’s going to play TE.
Coach Cleve Steamer
August 12, 2023 at 02:09 pm
A lot faster than Taysom Hill.
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 08:46 am
Iowa Alum might have some Penn St. bias?
Say it ain’t so!!!
jannesbjornson
August 12, 2023 at 01:17 pm
Not afraid the fire it in there, but both of his picks were bad reads and forced balls.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 08:17 am
There were times when the OP's point was true. This is why I was surprised to see Etling cut. It makes no sense to draft JL10 in the first round only to have him sit for three years, and then draft a fifth rounder to be #2 as a rookie.
#8 did some things very well, but he also played like a rookie at some times. This includes that he wasn't "up to speed" on a few things going on. I'd expect nothing else, even when it was painful to watch because it hurt the team. In his defense, one of those interceptions our receiver's knee was down while he still had full control. It wasn't an interception at all. MLF didn't challenge that one, and he did challenge a close call that correctly failed; as much as I wanted it to be an interception (by Sapp?) it wasn't, but it was still one helluva play!
There were times that BOTH #8 and 10 threw "with touch" that only helped defenders PBU. This isn't because either of them can't throw with enough "zip," it was just not ideal. Poor judgment, failure to see defenders or to account for their mobility; whatever it was, this is why we have Tom Clements. I do trust that he'll get to the root of it and coach up all 3 of our QBs on this point. I think JL10 will respond to that coaching better than the other two but we'll see.
"In Gutey we trust" I'm not there on his recent spree and that includes cutting #19 to leave MLF with the choice of 8 or 17 as backup, with nothing against either of them. They're both capable and I saw more out of 8, he's just a rookie. That includes signing #46 McCrary who was given opportunity and was maybe the only player we had who consistently did poorly. And maybe that was less about him and more about Cincy's defense? Yet every other RB we had out there managed to break out a significant gain, or several. I don't blame Gutey for "churning the bottom of the roster," I respect and admire the fact that he relentlessly tries to create the best team possible. I just wonder if some of his latest switches hurt the team, or brought no improvement at best, while reducing cap space for next year. Admittedly I don't know the net cost against the cap of all the recent juggling.
#8 has a killer instinct that cannot be taught! He did well in many respects but his stubborn refusal to give up after screwing up badly and coming right back to redeem himself was the best thing he did in my mind. I'm not a fan of harping excessively on "momentum" for exactly this reason. The mental toughness to focus on the next play is stronger than whatever "momentum shifts" may occur, but it takes conscious, deliberate effort. Clifford can lead that charge! MLF also talked about this factor and I liked most of what he had to say after the game, maybe all of it. The fact that #8 has some rookie things that still need to be polished doesn't reduce this contribution to the team, which should inspire even JL10.
If I had to pick our backup QB right now it would be #8, simply because #17 did worse. Fortunately nobody has to make that decision now, and I never will.
Another thing I saw that I really liked was the whole team rallied around everyone who did well, especially the lesser known players. I saw no cattiness despite the competition for roster spots. That kind of comraderie is an intangible that can contribute to greatness. Overall I'm duly impressed with the team, and that includes #8.
dobber
August 12, 2023 at 09:22 am
"This is why I was surprised to see Etling cut."
But there's really nothing special--or at least, not based on what we've been able to see--about Etling, either. If they'd judged that he's plateaued at whatever level we saw last year, then I don't think it makes much difference.
Coldworld
August 12, 2023 at 01:05 pm
If they saw Clifford and Etling as roughly on a par then they are going to keep Clifford. He’s yet to reach his ceiling and is younger and under contract longer. Last night I thought Clifford probably was no worse than Etling’s best. If that’s their view, let Etling try to catch on elsewhere, even if he would take a PS spot, I’d give it to raw upside if we keep one. If Clifford gets hurt, Etling is quite likely out there anyway.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 07:39 pm
Dobber, agreed that Etling had plateaud and doesn't show more upside. Agreed that all three backup QBs were roughly equal with not much difference, except Etling having years in this system. Just surprising (to me) that they're even considering a rookie for the position. I doubt Mr Magoo can learn the playbook well enough to challenge, but the attitude he expressed says he'll at least try like hell.
CheesedDeadHead
August 12, 2023 at 10:26 am
" I'm not there on his recent spree and that includes cutting #19 to leave MLF with the choice of 8 or 17 as backup, with nothing against either of them."
You really think Gute decided to cut Etling before even talking to MLF? Isn't it more likely they had a conversation and MLF thought Clifford showed enough that Etling was the 4th QB (and not in the running for the PS) and they would cut him early to give him a chance to find another team?
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 07:41 pm
Possible. I'm not sure any of us really know how decisions are made under MM.
Rebelgb
August 12, 2023 at 12:19 pm
Um Gute doesnt cut players dude. MLF makes that decision.
Coldworld
August 12, 2023 at 12:44 pm
Gute cuts players. He can’t cut coaches. He doesn’t have final responsibility for new contracts/extensions, just for who is on the roster.
LambeauPlain
August 12, 2023 at 02:46 pm
Gutey is GM of Player Personnel. MM has let him keep those GM responsibilities.
That includes cutting and signing players. He has to be able to do both or he can't do either.
MLF coaches them. But he can lobby MM, Acting GM to intervene. But for the most part, sans Rodgers, it seems Gutey is very much in charge of the Roster.
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 08:23 am
Hell yeah, Harry!
Cory, this is a very very very bad article.
Lphill
August 12, 2023 at 06:50 am
First game action and you’re writing him off already ?
stockholder
August 12, 2023 at 07:53 am
Taysom Hill - New Orleans Saints?
jannesbjornson
August 12, 2023 at 09:26 am
Ted's fu keeping Callahan , or you want this TE/Option QB on this squad?
dobber
August 12, 2023 at 09:28 am
I don't think they had the creativity to get anything out of him anyway.
Coldworld
August 12, 2023 at 11:22 am
Hill is really interesting as a super gadget & STer, but has having him actually made the saints better or simply flashy moments while distracting them from the need for true improvement?
stockholder
August 12, 2023 at 11:26 am
Yes
jannesbjornson
August 12, 2023 at 01:20 pm
He has won games for them when Brees was injured. So, he should have been retained. Ted was probably influenced by McCarthy wanting Mr rubber arm. Hill is still on NOLA's squad and earned a contract extension. Callahan is either selling insurance, or coaching High School ball.
ArlenWilliams
August 13, 2023 at 04:10 am
Brett Hundley was tardy when he was in Green Bay.
Sean Clifford played his first NFL game. He seems very much like Jim McMahon and with a similar NCAA background. Jim is a Superbowl champion.
dblbogey
August 12, 2023 at 07:08 am
He's already better than Deshone Kizer. I thought he looked OK. The 2 interceptions were bad decisions, he has to take care of the ball better, but showed better than I expected.
Doofapotamus
August 12, 2023 at 07:11 am
The first one was a bad decision but he was gonna get mauled if he didn't release it. The second one wasn't a bad decision it was just a tad bit behind Craft and the defender made an excellent play on the ball
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 08:28 am
The first one was a bad decision but replay proved that it wasn't an interception at all. The second one, the pick six, live I thought I saw it getting tipped and otherwise barely squeaking by. In replay it looked like it went to the defender cleanly. Those were two different camera angles and I'd like to look at it more but any time a defender CAN do that, it's a QB mistake. It's hard to account for all this but that's why they make the big bucks. Yes that defender made a great play. If it wasn't "a tad bit behind Kraft" would he have been able to intercept it? I dunno, that's one of the things I'd like to look at more closely.
There was absolutely no one in position to stop the defender once the interception was made. I don't know if anybody accounts for stuff like that when designing plays?
Coldworld
August 12, 2023 at 09:04 am
That formation and situation is always likely to have the treat of a pick 6 if the near lateral is jumped cleanly at speed. Everyone is level or in front of a relatively fast DB already running the opposite way.
CheesedDeadHead
August 12, 2023 at 10:33 am
The 1st INT was the pick six. The 2nd was to Kraft over the middle and as I replied earlier:
I don't think he (Kraft) had the ball ripped from him. The pass was thrown slightly behind him. The DB hit him and pushed him farther "upfield" before/just as the ball arrived and was in direct line of the pass after he hit Kraft. The DB got 2 hands on the ball in his breadbasket and Kraft was leaning back more with only 1 arm to get a hand on the ball due to the bump pushing farther away from the trajectory of the pass. Clifford throws that ball on Kraft's center or leads him and we aren't having this discussion. That was a good play by the DB and a poor pass by Clifford.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 07:51 pm
I stand corrected, I got the order reversed. If you get a chance to see the replay though, MLF should have challenged that. His knee was down with clear control, Kraft was stripped after that.
Doofapotamus
August 12, 2023 at 07:10 am
Clifford was a 5th round pick. He was playing with our backup OL for a majority of the game, which is one of our weakest backup groups. It was either make the throw or get sacked for a 10 yard loss on his first interception and he was .2 seconds late on a throw over the middle that a defender made a ridiculous play on to get the second pick. No one is expecting him to be the next Brett Favre, why are you being so critical? My guess is to get clicks on the article. I think he played a very good game. The dude only threw 5 incompletions.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 08:33 am
If our second string O line is "a bad group," they showed very well against a really good team! I think we've got some serious depth in linemen, but our two biggest both went down with ankle injuries. Hopefully neither are serious. I didn't see Mt Caleb's. Tenuta's I did see, and instantly thought I hope that's not a high ankle sprain.
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 08:56 am
Reviewing now.
First throw to TOURE on a beautiful slant timed perfectly splitting 2 LBs across middle for a gain of 25. That throw was a LASER!
Clifford’s next throw a beauty on 2nd and 13 to Heath for a gain of 9.
THEN, next play, Clifford waits for Reed to come across L behind LB, puts a high dart right where only Reed could get it for a 1D.
3 for 3. Next a play action too high to an open Kraft. Clifford throws to high, acknowledging “my bad,” to Kraft.
Um… after a Toure Jet L for 3, Clifford delivers what should have been a TD to Reed that was called PI. Defender did hook Reed’s arm. Beautiful throw though.
Goodson for the TD from the 1 on great blocks by Jones, Musgrave & Wicks.
Cory, you’re being very, very bad.
Doofapotamus
August 12, 2023 at 09:46 am
It's not that they're inherently "bad" but when you look at the talent we have in most other positions, the entire OL is pretty lackluster behind the #6 and #7 lineman. Namely : Royce Newman. Can the FO get over their crush on him??? The dude simply cannot play. Him and Rhyan can both see their way out. What a wasted 3rd round pick on Rhyan, too.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 08:13 pm
Mr Apotamus, (lol)
Newman is a third year player. He should reach his peak or close to it this year. If he's actually no good by January and we've got 5+ that aren't starters who are clearly better than him there's no reason hanging onto him. Rhyan is a second year player (both as listed) he might yet develop and become good. I'd love to be a fly on the wall and know how they're evaluating him now but I suppose that will come into focus over the next two games.
Doofapotamus
August 12, 2023 at 10:33 pm
I'm not being a pessimist, I'm being a realist. I agree it takes time for players to teach their potential, but when you have done nothing but play worse and worse as you progress, there's little hope that the switch flips. Darnell Savage is a perfect example. Had a decent rookie year, had a great second year and completely fell off the wagon in 2021 and has only gotten worse since. I don't think he's going to just magically get better.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 13, 2023 at 09:47 am
Declining seasons could be caused by a lot of things. Coaches aren't magic, but solid teaching, learning and hard work is what it's about. Lots of great players, and even more good players, had several bad years before developing into someone good.
Not saying these two will, or anything about Newman either. He usually gets lumped in with Hanson too, which paints him worse IMHO. Just that in some situations continuing to invest in a player's development is cheaper than player turnover. To me it's an odd comparison to keep all these mentioned while giving up on Scaife and Filiaga so soon. But Gutey has reams of info I don't, I can at least hope these might be good decisions.
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 08:33 am
PERFECT, Doof! My feelings as well.
NewToCheez
August 17, 2023 at 05:58 am
Let’s not forget
He threw the ball behind Davis which resulted in Davis turning away and getting blindsided by Ivey and speared in the knees which then led to a season ending injury and a golf cart ride off the field ,after Krafts high and a bit behind him throw.
dobber
August 12, 2023 at 09:15 am
"The dude only threw 5 incompletions."
The Packers definitely wanted to throw last night.
As out-of-sorts as both defenses looked at times last night, THIS is an important take-home: the rookie 5th rounder found a guy in a yellow helmet on over 75% of his throws when the majority of the play calls put the ball in his hands.
I'm not a big Clifford guy. I think him as primary backup is basically saying that they see 2023 as a purely developmental season. But he looked decent.
McGough putting the ball on the ground wasn't a good look, though.
The scrub OL--playing its first preseason game and with some shuffling due to injuries--only gave up one sack and (according to the stat sheet I saw) four QB hits.
LambeauPlain
August 12, 2023 at 09:24 am
McGough carried the ball like he was waving a trophy. In the NFL, that will get stripped most of the time. Cory could write an entire article on that one play and it would make more sense than this hit job on Clifford.
dobber
August 12, 2023 at 09:26 am
Was that the lone sack they gave up?
Thegreatreynoldo
August 12, 2023 at 12:38 pm
Correct.
Your prior comment in this sub-thread is reassuring since GB is going to be a passing team in 2023. [Do I need to use a font?]
GB has six pretty good OL, two of whom can probably play all five positions pretty well to very well. I am not quite willing to anoint Rasheed Walker or Caleb Jones as viable starters. Telford, Delance and Tenuta look like projects that aren't fully baked yet. I am unwilling to state that Rhyan and Newman are adequate backup guards. I am willing to state that Jake Hanson is terrible. I am watching OC Schneider and Empey but I suspect without knowing that they are just camp bodies.
Tom played most of a quarter at center. Interesting for Myers, and for Nijman, who probably loses significant money if Tom is the starting RT and Bakh's knee holds up.
LambeauPlain
August 12, 2023 at 03:23 pm
I agree, TGR...a solid 6. After last night and the injuries, starters look to be Bakht, Jenks, Myers, JRJ, Tom. Nijman held in reserve.
If one of the starters goes down, you can still play with 5 good players in different combinations.
I think Tom is starting at RT. He's a really good tackle. That's were he helps the team most...on the flanks.
The middle needs shoring up. Myers and JRJ can play well at times. Runyan is technically sound. He's not real quick. Myers is going in the wrong direction. Then the depth inside...yikes!
I expect an interior OL or two being acquired soon.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 08:45 pm
So Tenuta, Telfort, and DeLance might bake enough this season to become viable rotational pieces? If so, and hoping that Mt Caleb also comes back from injury 100% soon, we could be ok.
Letting Bakh not play on artificial turf and deliberately using Nijman in those 5 games hopefully tells us he's solid, worth keeping next year, and we can trade Bakh for a King's ransom before the trade deadline. We need him but I don't see how we have the cap space next year.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 08:21 pm
Dobber,
"scrub O line," lol. Going by the depth chart that includes Mt Caleb, (out by then) Telefort, DeLance, (not sure if either played with Mr Magoo) Empey, Schneider, (both definitely played with 3rd string) and Tenuta at RT. I think he was out with injury before then?
PackersGman
August 12, 2023 at 10:31 am
I agree what a worthless commentary regarding a rookie QBin his 1st nfl action. My inclination is to not read anything Cory writes.
stockholder
August 12, 2023 at 07:27 am
You're right Cory.
I'd cut him. This is Love's show.
We can't have a Qb controversy now.
The New ERA hype, just couldn't take it.
And it could just mean Gute is a idiot.
The difference in a great team and average
team, is who you take in the draft.
But these new guys need a lot of coaching yet.
They need to learn how to block out the defender.
They need to learn how to block.
And they just can't keep making mistakes.
But let's not concentrate on Clifford.
Let's concentrate who keeps doing the little things right.
This is pre-season. The game won't change anything.
Players have to WAIT for their chance.
dobber
August 12, 2023 at 07:36 am
"The difference in a great team and average
team, is who you take in the draft."
I thought it was how they played on the field...
stockholder
August 12, 2023 at 07:38 am
That is true; but it starts with the right guy taken first.
dobber
August 12, 2023 at 09:49 am
Just ask Bill Belichick.
stockholder
August 12, 2023 at 11:24 am
Jim Nagy was his scout.-
Doubt you knew that.
Coldworld
August 12, 2023 at 01:00 pm
Jim Nagy was Bellicheck’s Midwest area scout for a couple of years between other teams. He was with the Seahawks after 2013, before going over to running the Senior Bowl. That I do know. Got his start as a PR intern with the Packers.
You should let him know he’s the mind behind Belicheck’s success with Brady. For that matter, why not tell Bill this week?
Oppy
August 12, 2023 at 09:51 am
Here's the thing, stockholder...
The only way to determine who "the right guy" was, is to evaluate how they end up actually performing on the field of play, or the value they provide the team over time, rather than how all the talking heads and draftniks predicted where they should be drafted.
You continue to use mock draft position vs. where a player was actually taken to judge the players as opposed to how they have performed since being taken.
stockholder
August 12, 2023 at 11:20 am
Actually I use the Senior Bowl, Freaklist, and Combine.
(Before the draft) Position NEED day of draft.
But I do watch a lot of college football.
And usually that player sticks with me!
Then he is matched to the above.
Film hype can be misleading.
Just as much as the scouts now.
(Especially before the draft)
I loved Humphrey.
But Gute stuck to the Big 10.
I still feel Reed was the wrong pick.
Because of the trio we drafted the year before.
And the top safety dropping on the board.
Oppy
August 12, 2023 at 11:34 am
So you just confirmed my statement.
stockholder
August 12, 2023 at 11:55 am
How is that Confirmed?
(Draft Mock Position)
You just can't help yourself.
Oppy
August 12, 2023 at 06:43 pm
You are considering the value of a drafted player based on past performance, projection, and speculation rather than how they perform as a Pro.
How many college stars fail to perform in the pros? How many relatively unheralded college players end up building solid careers in the NFL?
The answer: A lot. The reason? because predicting draft prospect's NFL performance is heavily based in speculation of a player's talent ceiling and ability to grow, as opposed to a static snapshot of how they performed in college.
Quite literally, the second a player is signed to an NFL team, where they were picked (or how they were acquired) no longer means anything in terms of football. The only thing it has bearing on is contract negotiation at that point.
nagawicka
August 12, 2023 at 09:31 pm
Derrick Mayes & Donald Driver BEFORE the draft vs. Derrick Mayes & Donald Driver in training camp. The End.*
*Ask Eternal Game Face
LambeauPlain
August 12, 2023 at 09:59 am
As a proxy for Yosh Nijman, I award you with a thumbs up!
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 08:33 am
Can't tell if serious?
stockholder
August 12, 2023 at 11:56 am
PASSING CP/ATT YDS TD INT FPTS
S. Clifford
20/26 208 1 2 12
J. Love
7/10 46 1 0 7
A. McGough
0/0 0 0 0 0
Packerpasty
August 13, 2023 at 10:08 am
LVN was not a good pick im pretty sure that will be proven....there were other guys on "D", rookies who played last night and yesterday that looked much better than LVN...perhaps he will grow into a usable roll but why up that high in the draft??
murf7777
August 12, 2023 at 07:39 am
He did far more things right than wrong…..yes, he needs to not stare down a receiver, but what QB hasn’t been guilty of that. That can also be learned. I thought he also had some zip on his throws. Anyways, to all the folks who thought it was a wasted pick, you might want to go back and rethink that one.
IMO, taking a QB in drafts is a wise decision, just ask Ron Wolf who did it in most every draft even though he had a HOF QB playing.
TxFred
August 12, 2023 at 07:41 am
Overall, I liked Clifford first appearance. Especially, his rebound from the 2 it's. Did not rattle. Team cames together around him. I like how he keeps the ball close to his body before throwing. No "sand-lot" waving around. He does have a gun. Can get in between defenders & tight grouping. Uses he tight end check off with weak OL. Needs some polish & some edges smoothed off. Clements should do wonders for him. It's all up to Clifford to accept the coaching & develop. Do that, he'll have a good future in the leahue
One clown I would cut is Newman. This year he's holding. Poor blocking technique, run & pass. Sad. GPG!!!
Coldworld
August 12, 2023 at 08:30 am
If we were to cut Newman we need to sign a replacement. Rhyan was not good last night either. Our depth at guard and center not named Tom is non existent.
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 09:23 am
I’m tending to agree on the Newman part, but still reviewing and will check close up on Rhyan.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 12, 2023 at 09:30 am
Newman has played 1535 snaps in NFL regular season games. Lack of opportunity has not been a problem. I imagine Gute is watching the waiver wire for centers and guards.
Rhyan's performance is a blip on the screen. He had a forgettable performance which I intend to forget. He has been looking better in practice. Blank slate for his next game.
Leatherhead
August 12, 2023 at 10:52 am
"" I imagine Gute is watching the waiver wire for centers and guards.""
The problem is, guys that are better than a guy who has been with you for 3 training camps, and who has started and played in games we've won, aren't on the waiver wire, and if Newman were released, he'd land somewhere else. That's my opinion, anyway. At least he stays healthy enough to be available, he knows the playbook, he knows where the parking lot is, etc. I think it's going to be difficult to get a clear upgrade off the waiver wire.
We have good offensive line starters, and some flexibility to adjust for an injury or two, but after that we're out of good choices and we're going to struggle. And I'm not looking for any savior on the waiver wire either, because I think that what you see is what we've got.
We'll be OK as long as we don't run out of capable blockers.
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 11:01 am
Exactly. FFS. It’s the 1st preseason game and we need a new Kicker too because he missed 2 PATs? The guy made 2 to start, plus a 45 yd FG…
There are all kinds of factors in play requiring dissection.
If you see Moore chasing a RB down after a 30 yd explosive run, know he’s pursued from opposite side of field to make that stop after 4 other misses. LVN barely missed dumping RB for 5 yd loss, Wyatt was held, and Phillips & McDuffie both were walled off on their run blitzes, missing.
Moore & SJC saved a TD there.
Newman might have a few things to say about what happened.
18 more days of TC plus 2 more Preseason games before cuts. Plenty of time to get a clearer read on needs.
This was also NEVER going to be a 1 draft fix. Our cap is still tight AF.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 13, 2023 at 10:02 am
This is an interesting situation. "In Gutey we trust?" #61 & 62 are interior O linemen, both listed as C, and recently acquired. Essentially swapped for Scaife and Filiaga. If neither help us that's on Gutey but I won't be too harsh on a roll of the dice that fails, it happens. I have 0 info on Scaife or Filiaga other than they were big men, neither do I have any info on what this is costing against the cap. I'm thinking it's not 0.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 09:02 pm
.
LambeauPlain
August 12, 2023 at 09:54 am
Center is THE concern on the line. Seeing Runyan playing so many snaps there was an exclamation point on the need. Is he practicing there because Tom WILL be staying at RT (damn he's so cat quick on his feet and balanced steering rushers off the stage!) or Myers is just not developing? And after the T injuries last night, Tom likely remain a full time T.
I was impressed with the staring O line, however. Yosh and Jenks really played well on the left... it was a wall over there. Love had a luxury of time to complete his reads.
dobber
August 12, 2023 at 10:14 am
Wass it me or did Tom get a few drives in at C, too?
LambeauPlain
August 12, 2023 at 10:38 am
Tom did play some C late in the game with back ups and backups to backups and didn't see him doing much because both guards were struggling.
stockholder
August 12, 2023 at 12:00 pm
Newman was bad.
jannesbjornson
August 12, 2023 at 03:48 pm
Looks like he peaked in college, or is masking a two-year injury?
CheesedDeadHead
August 12, 2023 at 10:44 am
Yes he did. I thought 2, but am not sure.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 09:04 pm
Did anybody blow by Tom at C?
Thegreatreynoldo
August 12, 2023 at 01:21 pm
I think Tom played a full quarter at center.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 08:37 am
Newman wasn't great, but personally I don't know if we have 5 guys all better than him. Even if that gets proven I'd be surprised if we also have the depth to kick him off the PS.
dobber
August 12, 2023 at 09:39 am
I tend to agree.
I don't think he got any snaps at T last night, they all seemed to be at LG and they gave him a lot of snaps.
WD
August 12, 2023 at 07:43 am
"Clifford needs to show more" Seriously? The numbers tell a different story. Both QBs looked great as they showed they could move the ball at will. Clifford had a fantastic first game in the NFL. He went 20/26 for over 200 yards and a TD pass. Also showed his running and escape ability with a run for 15 yards and a first down. He showed why he broke all sorts of records at Penn State. He was not tardy and played more like a first round pick then a 5th round pick. Frankly, he could be the steal of the draft for GB. Anyone who watched the game was pleasantly surprised by his performance. The only player that showed signs of being tardy was the kicker Anders Carlson. Hopefully the problem can be corrected soon.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 12, 2023 at 09:40 am
Clifford had an 80 passer rating against a vanilla second and third string defense. I like his resilience and his foot speed was as his testing suggested (4.62, 1.60 ten yard, and a WR-like 6.84 three cone), but he sure needs to keep improving. We're not at the nuances such as holding a safety with one's eyes: we just don't want him to stare a receiver down the entire play. Good thing he has some moxie, some gamer to him.
LambeauPlain
August 12, 2023 at 10:03 am
And he was surrounded with 2nd and 3rd string vanilla Offense too...I don't discount his performance because he was playing against back ups with...back ups.
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 02:44 pm
YES!!! Not to mention, CIN has a very talented and deep Defense. Top 5 scoring D in the NFL. Our 1s for only 2 series and our 2s v. their 2s... and 3s.
The defense has been completely remade and we are only seeing all the pieces together, all of them essentially drafted players & UDFAs... save for a smattering of value signings.
Given all of that, I'd say Clifford - and the rest of the Packers - performed well.
I'm not even going to Karate chop Andres Carlson. Bisaccia has been working on his technique as has Anders. Now is the time for these learning lessons. 2 missed PATs... after making 2 PATs and a 45 yd FG.
Bisaccia will get him right. I believe in both.
LambeauPlain
August 12, 2023 at 02:57 pm
After the first missed PAT, Bisaccia absolutely chewed him out. I didn't see the second butt chewing. That must have hurt!
Those weren't just misses...both were sliced to the same spot and looked like carbon copy kicks. Good leg. Hope they can fix him.
NickPerry
August 12, 2023 at 02:55 pm
Thanks for pointing that out Lambeau... Everybody always mentions going against a 3rd string defense when for example an offensive player you don't expect much from produces...
Well hello, he's producing with 3rd stringers all around him too!
Oppy
August 13, 2023 at 06:28 pm
Isolate on the player and what he directly controls instead of the results and you can accurately assess the player regardless of the talent level of the other players on the field.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 13, 2023 at 10:10 am
Certainly #8's processing speed needs to keep improving, which is the main critique in this article. I don't find that so controversial as to need to excoriate Cory over it, I just think any negative rubbed people the wrong way at an exuberant time.
Pretty sure Tom Clements was going over ways to improve with all 3 QBs; it's all part of the process. The variable is, who learns the most from it? I expect all 3 to improve. I love what I hear from MLF about JL10 being coachable ...
Coach Cleve Steamer
August 13, 2023 at 11:39 am
Clifford looked like a real football player. Engaged, prepared, and confident. He’s got tons of potential. Give him a chance!
egbertsouse
August 12, 2023 at 08:04 am
Clifford looks about how I expected. He played pretty well against 3rd stringers and scrubs. He doesn’t have an NFL arm. He will be a decent USFL or CFL player at some point.
LambeauPlain
August 12, 2023 at 10:04 am
Thanks again, Cory.
KKB
August 12, 2023 at 08:04 am
I saw a mixed bag. But enough positives, that I want to see more before I decide about Clifford.
I also saw some nice things from Sean Ryan and Kadeem Telford. So I want to see more of them.
On the other hand - I have seen enough of Royce Newman. Dude needs to go. Terrible.
Give the reps to someone who might develop.
ANYONE else, please.
Carlson?????? It's early, but I don't think this is going to work out. Maybe in a year? But not now.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 08:59 am
Rhyan and Telfort both might be better than Newman. So might #63, 72, 78 and 79. Add new adds at C 61 and 62 to the list.
I do hope the ankle injuries to Mt Caleb and Tenuta, our two biggest O linemen, aren't serious. Even if they're minor they could still be out for the rest of preseason. That hurts.
Coldworld
August 12, 2023 at 09:09 am
Telfort needs work and it showed. He may have some potential. He’s going to the PS at best. Rhyan had a moment or two, but was not good overall. Let’s hope that he was just rusty and it will come together. We need help at G/C at cut downs as it stands.
Walker had a decent night at T. If Jones is out for a while, I think he helped himself and provides an option we can live with. He was already ahead of Tenuta.
dobber
August 12, 2023 at 09:47 am
I don't know...it seemed like Walker was struggling when I was watching him specifically, but there's a lot more to see than what I was looking at.
They gave Schneider a long look at RG last night, too.
LambeauPlain
August 12, 2023 at 10:09 am
Walker would be a Liberty Safe and be lock down on one play (big, strong kid!), then would whiff on the next play in total reaction mode.
You couldn't start him right now...but he belongs in the room with his upside.
ReaganRulz
August 12, 2023 at 08:20 am
Maybe we should compare his 1st NFL performance to other top quarterbacks. I haven’t done the research but my gut is telling me that he performed quite well compared to others. I really liked his resiliency after making mistakes. I bet the Bengals were wishing that they had him last night!!
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 11:09 am
HUGE resilience, RR!!! Can’t understate that quality.
Fubared
August 12, 2023 at 08:29 am
Its one game and he won. Magoo is the head shaker. Etling must really be bad. There are other QB's out there if we need one or two as fill ins. I say let it ride. Give it time.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 09:02 am
Etling isn't bad, that's the thing. He doesn't have the upside to #8 or 17 IMHO, but he has years in this system which is why I was surprised to see him cut. It seems it was to make room for a couple adds at C, and yet another RB.
Oppy
August 13, 2023 at 06:39 pm
He had "years" with Seattle, too, and failed to stick.
#3 QB is a position you want upside and potential to develop. If that upside is already achieved and it's not enough to be considered worth an actual roster spot, you cut bait and look for another player who might have that potential to develop.
In other words, knowing the system is only really valuable to most NFL teams if you have the talent to execute it at an NFL level. When a team determines a player doesn't have that level of talent, they'd rather work with someone new who shows signs of untapped potential who might develop into a viable NFL level arm.
CheesePuff
August 12, 2023 at 08:31 am
C'mon, Cory! The preseason is a time for Packer fans to feed their exuberant hope and and search for possibilities. We'll have to face reality soon enough when the regular season starts - just not during preseason, OK? GPG!
canadapacker
August 12, 2023 at 09:06 am
It was a PRACTICE - aka Preseason game 1. They played their 2's and others. Clifford except for a few throws was pretty good. Love except for a few throws was pretty good - but It was our two's versus their 2s for the most of the game. What it showed me is that there are some guys who were supposed to be good back-ups who are not good - Sean Ryan and some of the other Oline backups. It showed me that Clifford was as good as the Bengals more experienced back up including Siemien = wasnt the supposed to be Denver's saviour. It showed that some guys on this team really have speed - Wilson Wicks and other receivers. All in all it was a good practice and other than Davis nobody really got hurt.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 09:23 pm
Are we sure Mt Caleb and Tenuta will be ok?
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 09:41 pm
Hoping so!
PatrickGB
August 12, 2023 at 09:30 am
Yah, he is not yet starter material. With good coaching he will probably improve. Not bad for a backup. I like his mindset.
Thegreatreynoldo
August 12, 2023 at 09:59 am
Good summary. Processing speed improves with reps in the offense and with reps in games. Now, it may be that has been a characteristic of Clifford's game; even if so, we need to see if it can be improved. That's what becoming a professional sometimes allows - complete focus and dedication rather than the pulls in all directions a college player has.
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 05:39 pm
Patrick! The economy displayed here, priceless.
LOL.
LambeauPlain
August 12, 2023 at 09:37 am
To paraphrase Francis McDormand in the movie Fargo: "I'm not so sure I agree with your police work there, Cory!"
I am trying to understand if you wrote this attack piece to support your anti-Clifford narrative or if you missed most of the game and just filled in the blanks.
Clifford made mistakes and the worst was staring down his receiver on the pick 6. Great velocity on that throw...right into the DB's hands who was staring at his "stare down".
But talk about resilience! He bounced right back and make plays the next series. His three back to back play of pass, 15 yd opportunistic run, then TD showed skills, leadership and toughness.
I was impressed with where the back up is at right now. As Lombardi said "the only place where success is ahead of work is in the dictionary." Clifford showed me he is working hard to be part of the Packer 2023 Team.
dobber
August 12, 2023 at 10:02 am
"I am trying to understand if you wrote this attack piece to support your anti-Clifford narrative or if you missed most of the game and just filled in the blanks."
Most of the piece does read as if it could've been written post-draft in May.
Oppy
August 13, 2023 at 06:45 pm
He wrote the article to do exactly what it's already accomplished.
Look at the number of comments. That's traffic and that's engagement.
I'm not a fan of Cory's work in general. I don't think it is well written and most of his takes seem poorly constructed or lazy.
That being said.. I always have to wonder if it isn't all intentionally crafted to generate the outrage engagement.
marpag1
August 13, 2023 at 09:20 pm
"I am trying to understand if you wrote this attack piece to support your anti-Clifford narrative or if you missed most of the game and just filled in the blanks."
But why do you assume it can't be both things? Or both things plus a complete lack of understanding when it comes to football?
Oppy
August 12, 2023 at 09:40 am
Clifford would have to get caught banging a coaches daughter to not be the #2 after being drafted and performing the way he has thus far.
He's a rookie QB attempting to transition to the expectations and rigors of being a professional football player, and he's working through absorbing a completely new offense with concepts and a playbook that is likely 15-20 times the volume he's ever had to deal with before.
As I stated a couple of days ago- he looks like a gamer who will throw some ugly picks because he doesn't know the system yet, but he'll work that out.
,
He looked as good as could be expected yesterday. He's QB #2, the Packers have picked a workable lump of clay to work with.
NickPerry
August 12, 2023 at 09:46 am
Wow tough crowd Cory...
The kid is a 5th round pick who most thought should have been an UDFA. He completed 20-26 passes for 208 yards, 1 TD and 2 picks in his FIRST time facing and NFL defense in a game. He's also playing with guys he's practiced with for what, a couple weeks? Hell, to top it off, everyone catching passes from him are just as young.
I have to ask, just what did you expect from him?
I have no idea if Clifford will be a a NFL caliber QB or not. But I'm not going to tear him up after one preseason game. A little more time please...
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 02:32 pm
ROCK SOLID, Nick!
NickPerry
August 12, 2023 at 02:49 pm
Thanks GG... Cory isn't usually one to jump to such a quick conclusion, at least that I've noticed but I just thought that was jumping the gun... A LOT!
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 03:04 pm
Yeah. It was just so divergent from what I saw, and apparently many others.
He got us goin' tho!
Some kind of Jedi mind trick... for reals!!! Well done, Cory! Well played, Sir.
WestWi_Packfan
August 12, 2023 at 09:46 am
First NFL game and I thought he did ok, especially for only being a 5th rd. pick. I've certainly seen worse from picks higher then him so not sure I agree with you analysis.
TarynsEyes
August 12, 2023 at 09:53 am
I wonder if Cory wrote this article on the premise that there would be a Love bashing, and opted to try and toss Clifford under the protect Love bus.
I have heard of no issues with the broadcast, so whatever Cory was looking at couldn't possibly have been the Packers game.
As to Love, there wasn't enough to move the needle one way or another. I can't help sense that preseason play, not enough, will have the big (?) mark hanging over him until or when he answers it during the 'it counts' season.
On another note, this team does have some very interesting players.
stockholder
August 12, 2023 at 12:04 pm
I wonder if Cory wrote this article on the premise that there would be a Love bashing, and opted to try and toss Clifford under the protect Love bus. Correct. that was my feeling.
lmart
August 12, 2023 at 10:04 am
Sorry, but don't agree...you hated the draft pick...you hated the player...He could walk on water and you'd complain. A couple of bad throws but 20 for 26. At least be objective.
ricky
August 12, 2023 at 10:05 am
If Clifford is elusive and fast, the Packers might be able to utilize him the same way the Saints used Taysom Hill (a former Packer). And, as others have pointed out, this was his first game against another pro team. The game has to slow down for him, and if he has to have his passing mechanics reconfigured, the Packers are the team to do it. The key word for the day on this performance? R-E-L-A-X.
LambeauPlain
August 12, 2023 at 10:27 am
Clifford was one of my top "thumbs up" in the game. Other thumbs up:
1. Starting O and D lines. Love had all day to pass...DL has some great young talent with non stop motors!
2. Loved Love's command, focus and decision making.
3. Be my Valentine! He could be the steal of the draft. How did he slip so far?
4. STs looked in good form on return and coverage units (Carlson's PAT slices earned butt chewings from Rich who was pissed off!)
5. "Wilson!" Big and fast...but those quick feet...AJ like!
6. MLF revealing after the game he was the one who put Barry into the coaches box to "see the field better". Hmmm. Defense played well!
Swisch
August 12, 2023 at 11:02 am
I'm glad to read your takes on the game, LambeauPlain, and that of others.
Which is why I'm a little mystified -- although I don't mean to "Nag" -- that we don't have Aaron's first impressions of the game -- as this feature seems to be hugely popular right after Packers games.
Also, the game balls and lame calls feature the day after games seems to be a hit with fans.
Like the Packers offense in recent seasons, I don't know why CheeseheadTV would go away from the parts of its game that are working so well.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 09:35 pm
There were some lame calls in that game, for sure. I'm not sure any went our way?
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 09:43 pm
Maybe he just wanted to do some stuff with his Dad. Or, travel…!!! Life.
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 02:28 pm
LambeauPlain!!!!
The draft "knock" on Valentine was that he was TOO AGGRESSIVE!!! No kidding! LOL. What a gem of a player. Definitely a draft steal.
Wilson freaked me out! What a great surprise HE was on the night!!! Nice list!
dobber
August 12, 2023 at 05:02 pm
Valentine's still young...a true junior coming out.
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 05:24 pm
Works for us!!! He’s got a helluva lotta poise for being so young. Remarkable bonus getting a CB of his abilities at Pick 232. He was #71 in Athlon’s Top 100 Players Rankings!!!
Looks it too! That is a steal. 100%.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 09:40 pm
Listed at 21 years old. Skipped his Senior year?
Galacticat
August 12, 2023 at 10:34 am
I’m trying to recall a more poorly informed, hot garbage article on CheeseheadTV any time recently, and I simply cannot. Will Sean Clifford become a viable backup NFL QB? Who knows. But to blast the kid in his first NFL game appearance and laser in on the negative as if Clifford is a total bum - when he actually showed what he showed is freaking ludacris.
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 05:30 pm
Thought bubble: Cory & Corey & Nags knocking back cocktails last night, and Cory saying: “You want some engagements tomorrow? How many do you think this will get?” And, they all start laughing. Bets placed. The whole shebang!
marpag1
August 13, 2023 at 09:37 pm
Nah, it's just a dumb article.
CheesedDeadHead
August 12, 2023 at 11:02 am
I think the small pittance the author get's paid needs to go to charity for this article. Maybe to the writing program at IU for making them look bad...
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 09:43 pm
The article got a Convo going, which is all it's supposed to do. If IU is savvy enough to teach emotional response marketing I'd be surprised, and they're a good school.
Leatherhead
August 12, 2023 at 11:03 am
Threw 26 passes, often buying some time, and threw 20 completions. I was impressed by his debut in a Packer uniform. He moved the team and got points on the board. I liked it. He's a keeper, and I wonder how much he could improve with two more exhibitions and a bunch of practices. Then he needs to sit down and watch for a while.
We have two more exhibitions to prepare for the Bears. I always want to pound the Bears, but for some reason, I just want to give them an extra-special pounding in front of their home team on the first week of the season. What a perfect way to start a season.
splitpea1
August 12, 2023 at 11:29 am
I was also impressed, particularly by two of those throws to Wicks that were right on the money and the one to Toure on the sideline. All in all, it was a very solid debut. He just needs to learn identify certain coverages where trouble is lurking. We'll see plenty more him as he completes his crash course in the preseason.
This was the most fun preseason game I've watched in a long time.
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 02:24 pm
splitpea1, I agree with all of this 100%. Cliff was wheelin' & dealin'! His first NFL throw to Toure on the slant, splitting 2 defenders in tight coverage for that 30 yard gain? WOW.
It was superfun, and exciting. A ton of great action.
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 11:19 am
Cory. Can we talk about Clifford’s next throw on 1st & 10 11:08 in Q2?
What’s the problem here? Toure in motion R, Clifford with a perfect run fake to Taylor and throws a DIME to Heath for 13 yds plus another 4 YAC.
DECISIVENESS by Clifford, hits Heath immediately, perfectly in stride.
NEXT PLAY: TAYLOR TARDY!!!
Taylor was late on exchange with Clifford waiting for him. PERFECT run blocking hole created by Walker, Newman, Tom, Rhyan & Jones PERFECT lead into hole by Pearson. Taylor 2 seconds behind the play napping.
Nice ALLEY oth Taylor still 5 yards behind his lead blocking FB.
Gain of 1.
NEXT THROW: Clifford 1,2 count quick throw to Melton double covered for 2.5 yds.
NEXT THROW: INT for PICK 6 on nothing more than a poor choice forcing it to Kraft, 2 minutes into his Q2 stint.
Any rookie QB makes that mistake, son.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 09:54 pm
GG,
put Wilson in Taylor's spot in that play and what happens?
Ferrari-Driver
August 12, 2023 at 11:20 am
Cory,
Clifford may not wind up as an all pro, but neither will this article.
Ferrari-Driver
August 12, 2023 at 11:28 am
I just read Tom Silverstein's (from the Milwaukee Journal/Sentinal) take on Clifford's performance which is a night and day compared to Cory's.
https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2023/08/12/green-ba...
Jaqu’eau
August 12, 2023 at 11:44 am
Cory, the consummate pessimist.
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 11:52 am
I’m trying to figure out where Cory is getting this from…
Next series:
Clifford hands off to Goodson, Tufele rushes inside LT Walker who simply missed his block. Loss of 3.
2nd and 13 delay of game. Clifford lost track of play clock attempting to read D adjustments. Again, ANY ROOKIE QB, 1st game makes that mistake.
3 mistakes in a row. Pick 6. Bad run. Delay of game.
NEXT PLAY: Screen to Goodson. Newman and Rhyan to lead the way but NEWMAN KNOCKED ON HIS ASS. Rhyan left alone out in space 2nd level to block 2 players?
Is that on Clifford? Cory?
Goodson still picked up 12… good job despite no blocking.
3rd and 9. Rhyan worked backwards, Clifford avoids running L. The play is now UNSCHEDULED!!! Toure recognized this, made himself available, and Clifford hit him for a 30 yd gain and a 1D
Cory???
That’s not “TARDY!” It’s called “PATIENCE!”
PERFECT THROW off platform!!!
Leatherhead
August 12, 2023 at 01:07 pm
""3 mistakes in a row. Pick 6. Bad run. Delay of game.""
Which brought to mind LaFleur's comment before Love's first start, at KC, a long time ago: "We want to see what he does when things go wrong".
So, what did he see?
greengold
August 12, 2023 at 02:18 pm
You know it!!! There are other characteristics to being a Top QB in the NFL. Being able to shake adversity off and move the team to scores is HUGE! It has an effect of "buy-in" to every player in that huddle, making them believe they can do it.
All Clifford did after all that adversity over 2 drives was march the Packers down the field for yet another score! He played great for his first NFL action.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 13, 2023 at 10:24 am
GG, "Being able to shake adversity off and move the team to scores is HUGE! It has an effect of "buy-in" to every player in that huddle, making them believe they can do it."
It has that effect on everybody on the sideline, too. Second string defense. Coaches. Even the waterboys! As much as Nixon25 picked everybody up last year, a QB willing the team to win like this is BIGGER.
Hopefully we never need to see it because JL10 stays healthy, but I was an early adopter of #8 being a good draft choice and I'm feeling very redeemed! Yeah it's still early but I don't foresee this reversing.
SicSemperTyrannis
August 12, 2023 at 10:03 pm
GG, that was #8's big badass turnaround. Very professional showing for an audition.
jhtobias
August 12, 2023 at 12:47 pm
Hum Ok .. Well maybe we should focus on something else instead of picking apart a 2nd string QB who 99 percent of the people said should never have been drafted . That is what you got out of the preseason Game ?
Are you an intern who major is liberal studies and realizing your degree doesn't work in the real world ?
packerfanroy
August 13, 2023 at 02:41 am
Rip on the opinion all you want. Maybe leave the attempts to be funny by attacking the author out it.
I'm not gonna tell you what to do so do whatever.
We're all Packer fans here....we're known for being civil at Lambeau. I dont see why we cant do it here too unless you absolutely need to rip on people in order to overcome your own insecurity.
NewToCheez
August 12, 2023 at 01:35 pm
I liked what I saw in Clifford overall. With that being said I agree with the author, he did not lead his receivers well. That possible career ending short yardage pass to Tyler Davis caused him to readjust to the inside when he was clearly looking outside for the first down and never saw the defender who in my opinion did not need to lay such a malicious hit on his knees while TD was completely unaware of his presence. What happened to open field tackling? Jarring the ball loose? Causing a turnover? Holding players accountable for such hits and judgements should be league reviewed to prevent further injuries to key NFL players in the future.
This will result in the loss of an important member of this offense and special teams for the entire season.
The announcers seemed to enjoy commenting on the hit which adds insult to injury.
Lead your passers so they see what’s coming.
stockholder
August 12, 2023 at 02:01 pm
Actually the comments are LOL.
We have Love compared to Rodgers.
And now Clifford compared to Favre.
Don't call Majic.
He'll tell you what happens if a guy gets injured.
BAMABADGER
August 12, 2023 at 05:44 pm
Cory, mission accomplished... Most comments posted after a pre-season game. Well done.
packrules
August 12, 2023 at 05:59 pm
Dude did you actually watch the game??
packerfanroy
August 13, 2023 at 02:27 am
The Packers are a draft and develop team. Clifford showed there is something worth developing, through one preseason game at least. We'll see how it goes for the other 2 preseason games.
A big part of a player showing their worth is what happens at practice away from the public view. With the Packers getting rid of Etling, it points to Clifford showing potential in that area as well.
Hi-steppin Samkon Gado
August 13, 2023 at 07:25 am
It's unfortunate that Clifford has to be looked at in this lense but the front office did put him in the position of having to be viewed as a viable backup QB. Is he right now after his first game as a pro? Not yet but he could be and he shows promise as a rookie. I hope we don't have to see him this year.
Ralph D Wilberg
August 13, 2023 at 11:20 am
You are supposed to wear the Cheesehead on your head, not over your face. Clearly the author was not seeing what everyone else saw, also buildup of CO2 made him loopy!
theshitz
August 13, 2023 at 05:31 pm
While I do agree he was late on some throws and it was obvious he was staring down his receivers. I see him developing into a solid backup for us. By all accounts he’s working his ass off and never satisfied. I’m not putting too much stock into his first playing in the big show.