It was not just Rodgers and Adams. The Packers were a pretty good team, in 2019 and particularly in 2020 and 2021, that serially blew it in an annual progression of baffling conceits, coaching howlers and tactical failures.

This was a team good enough to make it that had a coach that never once managed to lift the players over the limits of their natural game and tendencies and more than once directly undermined them through keeping Drayton, permitting the Switcheroo and so on.

Last year there was no coherent plan on O, repeated baffling personnel usage and a historic trouncing on D versus the Eagles and melt down in Detroit that got them believing and a worse one to end our season. All of these faults are resurfacing. The same weaknesses of play and scheme, the baffling game plans, the personnel head scratchers …

It’s coaching. It’s all through the offensive and defensive structure, technical, strategic, tactical. If signs this obvious and so often repeated don’t make it obvious, then goodness knows what will. This isn’t getting better unless Love turns into a twice as good version of Rodgers and we find our better version of Adams and others.

LaFleur is not merely the coach that couldn’t win with Rodgers and that roster, in fact he’s the coach Whose errors ensured they failed each year and in predictable ways.

thats a whole lotta "if's".......

Whatever one thinks of King, we played him in that game knowing that he couldn’t run. He was visibly hampered. Why? Never mind the call, why was he out there to begin with?

King has been repeated. Nijman being played one armed, Tom and then Runyon on leg injuries. The entire switcheroo. Get to a Championship and then move 4 of 5 out of positions that got you there in order to insert a journeyman back up and then sit through the entire game watching it kill us unchanged. Watching Marry play soft coverage and light lines week after week after admitting it was unacceptable

Going into this season the run was known by both team and fans to be critical, yet we come out with perhaps the least promising combination of run blockers and made no attempt to challenge them in the summer. If we need to run, that is just baffling. Did we not really commit?

It’s as if LaFleur has no control over his coaches or no confidence or knowledge to intervene. I’ve never watched a team that seems so incoherently managed off field. I’ve seen poor leadership, bad coaching, poor rosters but never the level of incoherence so long repeated as LaFleur’s show.

Regarding the Kevin King Game vs Tampa, what coach settles for a field goal, when everyone in the world (except Pepe LeFleur) KNEW Brady would go after King and get the 1st down needed to run out the clock. That's where he lost all respect for being able to make tough decisions in critical moments. If I was a player I would have been livid that he chickened out on his offense's ability to make a legendary play. It would be like Lombardi kicking a field goal in The Ice Bowl instead of Bart's QB sneak for the winning TD. The blocked punt gaffe vs SF the next year was just icing on the cake. Pepe must go.

King never should have been on the roster.

"I wanted Rodgers. You guys didn’t. The Jets did."

I really don't think this is a time for a I told ya so moment and I also don't think most of us still wish Rodgers was here either. He DIDN'T want to be here. He PROVED that in 2022 so give it a rest.

"Because Love doesn’t fit MLF schemes." WHAT schemes? MLF isn't putting this TEAM or Love in a position to succeed. When is the last time you saw a slant? It's not just that either. The players are running the wrong routes, dropping passes, and Josh Meyers is still the starting fucking Center. That's NOT on Jordon Love!

"Without the proper OL. A deer in headlights."

Well just WHO in the hells fault is that? Rodgers or ANY other QB would have the same look in their eyes behind THAT O-Line.

Question, when was the last time you saw the BEST starting 5 out there blocking? Even in week one when DB was out there SO WAS Meyers. Zack Tom should be the Packers starting Center. PERIOD END OF STORY.

If after the bye week the Packers starting O-Line consists of anything involving Meyers at Center and Nijman on the bench, them LaFleur should be shown the door as quickly as possible.

Love may very well be a stinker, he's basically played well for about 8 quarters of football this season so far. But MLF has been proving he can't make the right decision on players OR coaches for the last several years.

Rodgers for four plays and OUT? LaFleur was onboard the Love pick from day one. His guy, he was onboard along with Gutedkunst. The personnel choices from this fraud have left the cupboard bare. There is no next guy up to fill a spot. He paid out the big bucks to secure free agents for the big push for the SB, after the whiffs on draft day. No rhyme or reason to the roster building strategy. Not the right guy for the job. Wolf was perplexed. There is not a dynamic back behind A.Jones to run the wide zone. There is no Creed Humphrey to protect Love inside, or a One Pick to cover the OT position, knowing the probability of Bhak showing up for a complete season was very low.
Walker is not a take no prisoners LB. Who is coaching the WRs? Watson has to secure the long balls and run his route correctly on the 2nd INT. The Deer in the headlights delivered fire balls and nice fades for TDs with Bhak and Jenkins healthy. These are LaFleur's schemes in living color. Do you actually believe he audibles out with the frequency of a 17 year All-Pro? Love's egregious mistake may be in reality, running LaFleur's play calls.

Fuck Rodgers.

Excellent point in reference to McGinn's grading system which was always on the money, you need to look at the talent level first before assessing scheme and coaching. How many teams have had 8 #1 draft picks on one side of the ball in the past without top or even middle of the pack results as a group ?

"Need I remind you that this team was 8-9 and out of the playoffs LAST season WITH his Darkness?"

Thank you HH! That was my first thought when I read this article. Cory conveniently ignored that little detail. Rodgers no longer had Adams, but did have some very young and inexperienced WRs and a patchwork O-line. And the offense struggled mightily.

Different QB this year, but same young and inexperienced WRs and a similar patchwork O-line. Same result. I don't know what we have in Love yet, but the offensive problems are not isolated to the QB position.

first off, bob mcginn is a crank and a fraud.

clark, rasul, cambell, jaire, walker, and gary on defense - all blue. i might also include preston smith.

offense? jenkins and jones to be sure. bakh belongs on the list, but that knee will never heal. are you seriously writing off the receiving corp? the qb has 5 games under his belt. ridiculous to think there isn't sufficient talent.

there's plenty of talent on this team. walker is about to be a superstar.

the issue is coaching. the issue is team culture.

This could be the first time where I don't agree with everything you say Harry. And that, in itself, it's pretty incredible.

IMHO, even though players make it to this elite NFL level, they still need to LEARN and IMPROVE their skills. And the only way they can do that is through competent and intelligent coaching. Regardless of our position in life, no one should EVER stop learning and improving!

There is no reason to believe that many of these players - especially the first rounders - could not be as good as the SF and Lions players. The only variable that likely can't be taught is sheer, in your face, toughness. And in that specific sense, I agree that Gutes philosophy is flawed. Don't draft 290 lb Olinemen projects that run the 40 faster. Draft the toughest meanest SOBs that want to run over the guy in front of him IMHO.

And lastly, yearning for the years of TT? That was a different time when GB struggled more financially due to the lack of today's media revenue sharing. And he did well in that regard. But that type of highly, financially minded football management is no longer needed in the NFL. There is so much money in the NFL now that a chimp with a banana could make those decisions. Proof of that are the legions of GB Board of Directors and Mr Murphy of course.

So, until we can see far better management throughout the organization - and most urgently at the coaching level - i will never agree that our players are inferior to other teams.

WITH His Darkness?. Next 30 yrs.- The CURSE of Rodgers.

This is an honest question. What makes Clark blue chip?

"""Need I remind you that this team was 8-9"""

Not to put too fine a point on this, but we were 4-8 in December, four full games under .500, and with just a little better execution on offense in our last game, we'd still have made the playoffs.

I'm going to reject the argument that the Lions are better because of better talent. They've always had good talent. They traded away a Super Bowl caliber QB. They didn't win with Suh, or Megatron.

It's not talent that triumphs, it's character. When it's late in the season and it's cold and you're hurt and you're on the road and the refs are boning you, it isn't talent that keeps you trying.

You're also kind of taking a shot at our scouting and personnel department, of which Gutekunst is the head. If you'd be interested in giving me a breakdown of how we've done in personnel acquisitions in the last 5 years versus some other teams, that could be interesting. I don't have the time to do that and you probably don't either. My perception is that we've done pretty well.

Excellent post Since '61.

Good to see you here. I was concerned, haven't seen your posts as much as I normally do during the season. Hope all is well with you.

My level of confidence in Butkus is much lower. I’d go further and risk putting Caleb Jones out there not Walker at RT. Walker lacks strength at this point as well as his struggles recognizing what to do in run plays. The myth that we are great pass protectors is a tad threadbare when we can’t keep a pocket open. Teams have realized that we can just be overpowered.

If we are to get better and keep Jones healthy once he’s back, we are never going to want to run behind Runyon and Walker. That makes us one sided. Get a run game going and the OL gets better by default. Nijman, Jenkins, Tom, Runyon, Jones.

Personally I would fire Butkus, make Stenovich handle the OL. I seriously doubt that LaFleur has the fortitude to do that. He’s never fired a coach unforced.

I applaud your optimism 61. I scream every game when I see the same Oline come out with Myers under center. They NEVER seem to come out with the 5 best Olinemen - aside from injuries! You cannot tell me Tom isn't a better choice at center than Myers. Yosh is warming a bench when he should out at starting tackle. So what is wrong with MLF and Steno? Are they just so resistant to change or lazy that they can't try better combinations? A bit of both I suppose?

You're right that a Bye week is a good time to make changes. Perfect time to wave bye-bye to a certain, badly under performing DC? You would think so but this is the land of MLF where change and objectivity are nasty concepts to consider. Sigh.

I've tuned out any media comments made by MLF. I wonder if the players have as well?

I think we need a staff that believes in aggressive hard nosed football.
Taylor your system to the talent on hand.
I don’t like losing, but losing when you take the fight to your opponent is more tolerable than soft defense, and identity lacking offense.

Good point, the way Love and this offense have been used this far, we probably out to cut them more slack as a result ogf the incompetence of LaFleur.

Just look at the stats and tell me with a straight face there’s another head coach with a first year starter who’s designed and called an O with the depth of pass characteristics and no run game on top of that. You’d be laughed at if we hadn’t actually witnessed it.

I think MLF knows now.
And most don't realize MLF
was a QB himself.
It said he Trust his staff.
Clements spent time with Love.
Yet- the last two games have told
everyone, that Love has too many Brain Farts.
And as much as MLF forte might be preparedness.
The Lack of production is putting MLF
in unknown territory.
MLF knows Zone Blocking.
He was an OC.
Personally I think we have some underlying
issues that might be insubordination.
Love might just be the problem.

"though we have yet to see any 'Illusion of Complexity', but only the illusion of what was hoped."

So so true.

Maybe we need an illusion of simplicity not complexity. Illusion of complexity really doesn't make much sense to me.

This is a prospective group of skill position guys. Some will stick. Others will not.

I'm generally not as high on them as other people are, but some have had their moments. But overall, it's hard to develop sklll position guys if the OL/QB are not in a position to bring them along. It's also hard when there's not a leader in the room...and I'd argue that there's not a leader in the room.

Blame.....

Since the Gute/LaFleur partnership began, we've won more games than any other team in the league. Who do we blame for that?

We won the division 3 years out of 4. Who should we blame for that?

We have extra picks in next year's draft. We have the core of a very good passing attack locked up for the next several years....Watson, Doubs, Reed, Toure, Wicks, Musgrave. None of these guys are going anywhere, and they're only going to get better. Who should we blame for that.

wait a min....there were all kinds of posters on this forum saying the Pack will get into the playoffs, win the division, win 10/11 games, etc...where did all that optimism go...."we all" go back and read pre season blather..