Rebuilding is a nebulous term. The draft is about rebuilding and teams use it every year. I think age of starters is probably a good metric to determine if a team is in rebuilding stage. A large difference from one year to next indicates older veterans have been replaced with younger players. Sounds like a key indicator of rebuild.

I think an argument could be made that an offensive rebuild started last year. With Lewis and AR gone, the average drops a lot when a team loses two players that old. Now add Lazard to that. Offense is definitely rebuilding. Draft has focused on offense more the past couple of years and AR leaving makes it more obvious.

Defense has arguably been in a continuous rebuild for a decade as new high draft choices continually get added to improve the weakest side of the ball.

We are only talking rebuild because AR is gone. The NFL is divided into teams with a QB and those without. The packers have been quite young with AR at QB, and there was no talk of rebuild then. So this talk is more about the packers no longer have a known franchise QB.

If we are going to continually ask about whether the Packers are rebuilding or not maybe a good approach would be to identify the criteria and/or characteristics of what the term rebuild means for an NFL team.

For me an NFL team is rebuilding when they turn over their FO staff as the Packers did when they brought in Bob Harlan to take over the organization and shortly thereafter Harlan hired Ron Wolf as GM to run the football team and Wolf in turn hired Mike Holmgren who hired his own coaching staff. That is the beginning of a rebuild because after those moves are made the GM and HC begin acquiring players who will fit into the team philosophy they believe will compete and eventually succeed at a championship level.

The Packers also began a rebuild when Mike Sherman was removed from his GM/HC roles and replaced by TT and Mike McCarthy.

These 2 recent examples represented a change in team philosophy and player acquisition. Both of these GM/HC teams tied their new philosophy to their respective franchise QBs Favre and Rodgers.

Those are the three building block (GM, HC, franchise QB) criteria of an NFL franchise rebuild IMO. If the Packers were currently in a rebuild Gute and MLF at the least would have been replaced and most likely Murphy and Ball as well. However as we know Murphy is coasting to his retirement in 2025 after the circus, er, I mean the draft comes to town.

Also, if a rebuild is based solely on older players replaced by younger and/or different players then, in this era of free agency, every team would be in a rebuild every season.

What the Packers are currently doing is extending an approach initiated by Mark Murphy when he rearranged the FO reporting hierarchy. He made himself the de facto GM and since then there has not been much transparency about the team's philosophy. The Murphy, Ball, Gute team are entering their 6th season of management, 5th with MLF, and the team is still without an identity when they take the field. Apparently their original approach was to have Rodgers carry the team on his back as far as he could. After 4 seasons, 2018-2021, that approach ended in colossal failure against the 49ers in the 2021 divisional playoff round at home at Lambeau. Then, in spite of the obvious end to the Rodgers era they extended Rodgers and kept most of the band together for another failing effort in 2022 which has left the team bereft of cap space for 2023 and into 2024 with a virtually all rookie receiving corps, an OL in flux on the right side and a defensive coordinator who is on his third career attempt to implement a successful defense.

This is more of a recovery from a failed approach than a rebuild. There are solid pieces of the team from the earlier approach which are worth salvaging and building upon. Pieces such as the Packers RBs, the left side of the OL, Kenny Clark, Jaime Alexander, Quay Walker, to name a few on defense.

This recovery is based on bringing in an infusion of young players to hopefully build a new team core over the next 2-3 seasons as they gain experience and the Packers salary cap is restored in time to make a run by the 2025 season. Obviously Love will play a key role in re-establishing the Packers to perennial playoff contention.

The key question for the next 2 seasons remains to be; Is the FO of Gute, Ball and MLF, who brought the Packers to this point, good enough to bring the Packers through this recovery/transition period successfully? I left Murphy out of this part of the scenario because he is coasting to his retirement regardless. However, if the others fail over the next 2 seasons and with Murphy retired then we will in fact probably see a complete rebuild from the top down of the Packers franchise. Until then, enjoy the ride. Thanks, Since '61

greengold says meaningless semantics. I totally agree. In a league where you need a good QB to have success, the Pack just doesn't have it. Can and will they win some games, yes. But there will be losses too. That's what we get with an unproven QB, WR'S and TE's. That's what you get with trading Rodgers and all his drama. Might as sit back and enjoy the season.

I would say it's an Offensive Rebuild... but the team itself is resetting. Most of the D has been around awhile.

YES. To be fair QB unproven. WR's unproven. TE unproven. TOO many question marks. Should be better 2nd half of the season

I would tend to side with Jones here, as there is plenty of talent and experience in certain areas. But the passing game is going through a rebuild, which is obviously a big deal; so to that extent, Bakh is correct.

Achieving a winning record in the division is an attainable goal. Better QB play and a more fired up team (hello, MLF) should yield dividends against the Lions. The Vikings are also going through a bit of a rebuild, with the most interesting thing being how they're going to adapt to Flores' new schemes. The Bears, though, may not be the easy mark we're used to; they have two good young tackles, a pair of nice safeties, a WR worth worrying about, and an infusion of FA help for the defense. We should be able to manage at least a split, although it would be much more fun starting a new "ownership" streak with Love.

The home game against KC will be a great measuring stick for our rebuilding/non-rebuilding status. We'll see exactly how far Love has come from his awkward first start, and we'll see if Barry and his defense can rise to the occasion like he did (most of the game, anyway) two years ago.

I don’t think it matters what you call it. The Packers have a good amount of talent on this roster. Plenty of it is proven (backfield, O line, defense) and plenty of it is skilled but unproven (QB, WR, TE). However, let’s not kid ourselves. The nature of the QB position is such that if Love thrives the team could exceed expectations or if he doesn’t it will be a long season. Currently, the Packers also have not filled the backup QB position with a veteran. An injury to Love will be disastrous.

I still remain optimistic that Love will step up and the overall team is headed in the right direction. I do think fans need to be both patient and realistic. A .500 team with an improving young QB by the end of the season could really set up the future. Expecting Division Titles with an inexperienced QB might be asking too much.

Offensive rebuild is a absolutely fair statement let's see how the year plays out .

As for the defensive side of the ball absolutely not. Except for not having a couple of defensive lineman lowrey and reed and amos everything is intact and people can even argue Wyatt and more Slaton will be more productive than both lowrey and Reed. I personally think Reed will be tough to replace but understand it completely

Here is the infuriating part about the packers defense . In the history of the NFL I can't remember a defensive coordinator screwing up schemes and placing is player in more situations to fail than Joe Berry has in the last two yrs and still maintain his position . Heck Berry is probably shocked he is still emp0loyed.

I don't blame Berry anymore he didn't higher himself nor retain himself . Why is their no accountability for lafluer for hiring and keeping this man at his position ? I don't get it . I guess McCarthy did keep capers 5 yrs to long and kept his job so I guess it is a packer thing

Rebuilding?

The truth is the rebuild started in 2020 with the Jordan Love draft.

The only problem was Gutegunst decided not to tell Rodgers and Adams about it. Gute did little to help Rodgers during his MVP years which started their rift. And likely cost the Pack a clear shot at the Super Bowl.

Fast forward to 2023. Rodgers and Adams are gone (both hall of famers) and we have a bunch of young unproven players. The Packers are not rebuilding, they are rebuilt. Soon we will see if the rebuild is good or not. Im guessing 8-9 again this year is likely, and maybe upward from there. Its all on Love basically.

The loss of Rodgers is huge. But to me, the second biggest loss is Mason Crosby. He was used to playing in the cold and was well aware of the swirling winds in Lambeau. Whoever the new kicker is, he's going to have a learning curve. And where the margin in winning or losing can come down to a field goal, that could be a major factor in the Packers record.

Replacing players at key positions yes, rebuild no:

1) QB biggest question mark which should be answered early, drafting Love 4 years ago was the rebuild
2) OL a strength
3) RB a strength
4) WR (lose an old Cobb - meh/our #2 Lazard, and DA still hurts) improved overall quality/depth/speed with last 2 drafts
5) TE (Tonyan meh, Big Dog - slightly bigger meh) significantly improved size, speed, quality
6) Defense should be stronger, loss of Amos may be problematic early
7) ST loss of Crosby, kick offs should improve significantly, FGs to be determined

Only rebuild issue which was not taken care of - Barry is still employed.

In the last 4 seasons we have seen Gute completely revamp the Defense and Offense top to bottom minus a couple players. Our entire OL has been replaced but for Bak. Nearly entire Defense but for Clark and Alexander.
So we have been in an enormous turnover of personnel for 4-5 years and after adding AR and Crosby to the mix...Damn near an entire team. All this while being very competitive. We are loaded with talent on both sides of the ball. We have a very young team. Are they ascending???? With the loss of QB1, many will question this answer. In Jordan Loves small time in games it appears we are in better hands than any backup QB has shown in many years, be it a small sample size. We have a solid OL, excellent run game, good defense, which will get better when injured players are back and fully healthy. A very young receiving room with apparent talent at 1-4 spots. Our TE group is young but I suspect they are so much more talented they will impress earlier in their careers than most believe. I'm not going to say rebuilding, because of the higher turnover the last 4 years...I'm going to say (Building). I'm sure we will see some growing pains, but I was more than tired of the past few seasons of passive aggressiveness and negativity. I'm positive Love will grow into a Special QB and with Gute absolutely hitting on the last 2 drafts, we start seeing fruit develop relatively soon....We are playoff bound in 2023 and a contender in 2024...Mark-it.

Since '61 covered it well, per usual. Here's what I know. The Packers haven't lost their lease, there's been no talk of "everything must go" or "no reasonable offer will be refused." I haven't heard any discussion of the team forfeiting 17 games this season. Seems like the NFL franchise in Green Bay intends to field a team. Whoa!

Urgent Notice from The Department of Redundancy Department: American Family raises the cost of my homeowners policy annually to compensate for the anticipated increased cost of a total rebuild. Should I approach my agent with the notion it wouldn't actually be a rebuild?

The Packers are trying to put a team together that can beat Chicago on their own field in about 3 months. Most of the parts were already here last year, when we beat them twice. We added Van Ness on defense. Hopefully Wyatt and Walker, and Enagbare, are improved their second year. We're replacing two veterans, Lowry and Reed, with two rookies, one of which will certainly be Wooden. Same DC, most of the same players.......that doesn't really sound like a rebuild. More like a reload.

On offense, we have 3 rookies that we're hoping will be ready to play. Other than that, it's all veterans. Again, that's not a rebuild.

Remember, we're not replacing 4 time MVP Rodgers with some rookie, we're replacing a 39 year old QB with a guy who is in his 4th year in the system. His two main WRs aren't rookies. The RBs, who are half the offense, aren't rookies. In fact, we'll only have a couple of 'virgins' on the field against the Bears, and even then, probably not at the same time very much. Contrast that with what the Bears are going to be lining up with.

I say it's not a rebuild for just a few reasons.
First, I have complete faith that Love will become a star. The 2nd year receivers, if healthy, will be like vets.
Second, the list of vets we lost features at least 4 who are washed up, and 3 that were never great (Amos, Lazard, and Reed). The replacements at those positions are younger and more athletic. Even some of the UDFAs are more talented at this point.
Third, it really did begin last year, with an exceptional draft. I expect the same this year (augmented by the return of Gary).
Fourth, the running game will be underrated in terms of allowing the new WRs and TEs to find their way.
Fifth, the schedule is fairly average.

Oh, and Bak's comments almost assure that he's gone. Can't let the lone leftover become a cancer in the locker room. May as well have the enthusiasm of Jones (and Doubs).

Pack was ranked 6th best roster before last season. How did that work out? 11th by the mid season report and 18th after the season ended. And even with a GREAT draft--by almost all fans and pundits--the Pack dropped to the 27th ranked roster because of the Rodgers' trade. Surely, with such a good draft, PFF shouldn't have dropped the Pack 9 spots in the rating when the stat is supposed to rank the entire roster (not just the QB). The drop off from Rodgers to Love can't be that dramatic, especially if the D comes into its own as it should start to do and the WRs start to pick up the game. The Pack should WAY overperform a 27th ranked roster.

Chat GPT picked the Pack to go 12-5 and lose in the Super Bowl!!

Seriously?

I understand it's that time of year to come up with something original to discuss. But ANOTHER "Are we rebuilding?" article? Second one just today alone. How many more ways can this topic be approached?

I rarely, if ever, say anything negative towards the writers on this great site. But c'mon man....

Do you believe what they're saying?
Or what they can really do.?

We can all thank Mr. Tell-It-Like-It-Is, David Bahktiari, for this pointless discussion. There's a reason why players, coaches, and team officials seldom say that their team is rebuilding, even when that's obviously what is occurring. It kinda makes it sound like the team is not trying to win. The optics are bad. It's much better to just avoid the subject as much as possible.

Having said that, I don't accept Bahktiari's statement that when you move on from a star quarterback you are automatically rebuilding. The fact that he says it's "disrespectful" not to say you're rebuilding reveals that it's his loyalty to Aaron Rodgers that is behind his comments.

But I'll play along anyway. The Packers are definitely rebuilding at QB and TE, although you could argue, as others here have, that the rebuild at QB started when Jordan Love was drafted. There's a good case for them rebuilding at WR, although I would argue that last year was when that rebuild really started, with Davante Adams' departure and the drafting of three WRs. But they're not rebuilding any other positions, unless you count kicker.

In 2019, they rebuilt the OLB position by acquiring Zadarius Smith and Preston Smith. Over the past two years, they rebuilt the ILB position. The CB position has been rebuilt in previous years but is stable this year. The offensive line and running back positions are also stable this year. The defensive line is changing, but the only departures are Dean Lowry, who was an average player at best, and Jarran Reed, who is a journeyman DL who spent one year in Green Bay.

I admit that overall there's more turnover this year than there has been in most years, but I wouldn't call it a rebuild, and it's pretty annoying that one of our own players--a veteran leader, no less--is insisting that it is. This doesn't mean that I hate Bahktiari or think he is a cancer or anything. I just think he's being annoying and would be better off keeping his mouth shut on such matters. I'm hoping he stays healthy and does his usual great job of protecting his QB's blind side this year.

From a Jason Wilde piece this week...

With 13 draft picks, 18 undrafted rookie free agents and one international player allocated to them (with a roster exemption) — is higher than usual.

But they also have nine more players who are designated as first-year players, having yet to accrue a full season of NFL experience, plus 15 more players who are entering their second NFL seasons — including all 11 of their draft picks from a year ago.

After that, there are eight players entering their third NFL season; eight entering their fourth year in the league; and 19 old vets (Jones included) going into Year 5 or later.

That means 56 of the 91 players on the roster (61.5%) have one year of NFL experience or less.

.............................................................................................................................................................................................

Use any word you want to, rebuild, retool, reload, restock, whatever the word you CHOOSE to stamp it with, this Packers team is a young team. A very young team. But they also have some very talented players on this rooster.

If Joe Barry can just stay out of the way and let his defense PLAY and Love is even an average game manager to start the year, his team WILL surprise, BUT Barry has to let these guys play. There's just too much there on defense to continue to be bad!

They open at Chicago and at Atlanta and then have homes games against New Orleans & Detroit. After Detroit they get a mini-bye and play the Raiders in Vegas on Monday night before their bye week. Then they go play at Denver before coming home to play the Vikings and Rams.

Now, you tell me why this team couldn't be at worse 4-3 but probably 5-2 or even 6-1? Those AREN'T powerhouses by any stretch. People wanna anoint the Lions NFC North Champions already when they didn't even do it last season...Gimmie a break! Chicago? Atlanta? The Raiders, Broncos, Vikings, or Rams? Common man!

Put a bow on it and call it whatever you like. This team has a LOT of talent and by December they show it.

This is the emptiest debate imaginable. Various words that overlap each other and finding the best descriptor gets us nowhere anyway. This is a different team than last year. That’s all that matters.

Re-imagining !!!!!!

Aaron Rodgers' bff says they are so it must be true. Cant criticize the idols because that would be be against the rules of fanboyism. Packers should make sure they dont win more than 8 games this year or that could send the wrong message. Rebuild it is.

We're retooling and reloading with a rebuild twist and half pike.

Every single NFL franchise rebuilds every single year. Every team acquires prospects for every position, as developmental players, as backups, and as replacement starters -- every year. Teans replace what they've giot with better players every time they can. Every player means the QB along with all the other players.
The idea we're 'rebuilding' bc our QB ghosted the Pack so we threw Rodgers overboard is laughable.

Use whatever word you want, and get as technical as you want about it. Moving on from Rodgers was going to happen at some point. The Pack got younger. The NFC North is wide open. Gameday!

It is what it is. It doesn’t matter what you call it. You can call an onion a rose but it will still make you cry when you peel it.

Three articles tackling the topic of "is it a rebuild?" on basically the same day, but not a peep about the article by Matt Scheidman of The Atlantic?

I guess I'd call that a push.

The Packers started rebuilding four years ago when the FO hired Matt LaFleur as HC. The following year the Packers drafted Love as their next ( hopefully ) starting QB. And meanwhile more and more new players added both defensively and offensively until now- this coming season, that is- the Packers have mostly ( except for important veterans on both sides of the ball, and with Aaron Rodgers gone ) a rebuilt team.

So, with a mostly brand new team on his hands, even Matt LaFleur has to prove himself all over again. And certainly, obviously, painfully, regretfully, Joe Barry has to prove himself. In fact, possibly, hanging onto Joe Barry may prove to be Matt LaFleur's greatest mistake as a head coach besides the hiring of Barry in the first place.

In any event, for the first time in several years, I am really looking forward to this coming season.

When I blow out my candles later this month, all I’m gonna wish for is a rebuild at the defensive coordinator position!!

Bakhtiari doesn't care what we think and I for one appreciate that.

https://youtu.be/sYtxXIZl6eA

Yawn. “Rebuild” vs “reload” is just so much semantic quibbling unless you’re really invested in justifying (or not) the Rodgers trade.

How many more days until training camp?