Confessions of a Polluted Mindset - Tick, Tick, Boom?
The Weekly Packers Brain Drain from Jersey Al.
By JerseyAl
Tick, Tick, Boom? As of this writing, (Tuesday evening) there are multiple reports that the Jets and Rodgers spoke on Monday and a Jets contingent is in Cali making their pitch to Rodgers. That also likely means the Packers and the Jets already have trade parameters in place. This is like the movie scene where you're tied to a chair with a time bomb nearby and you're listening to those maddening ticks and just waiting for the inevitable BOOM! By the time you read this, perhaps it's already exploded.
Trade Talk - If only trades in the NFL could go down like some NBA pre-draft trades. Team A agrees to trade their Pick #4 for a player from Team B. Team Team A is told by Team B who to draft and then include in the trade. This type of scenario would save the Packers some money. The problem is, having to wait until after June 1st. In the NBA, the teams don't have to wait. In theory, they could have an under-the-table agreement to do this and not announce the trade until June 1st, but that's not going to happen when you will have OTAs and mini camps going on with a QB you know you are trading. Too bad. Just unrealistically dreaming out loud here.
It's pretty difficult to write about anything other than Rodgers at this moment in time, but I am kind of burnt out on that subject and there was an NFL Combine this past weekend, so a few thoughts about that.
Relative Athletic Score (RAS): If you live under a rock and don't know about RAS, it's a way of comparing a prospect's measurables and athletic testing results (10 items in all) to all players historically having recorded test results at the same position. It's a 1 - 10 scale with 5 always being the average. As an example, if a prospect has a RAS score of 9.5, they are in the 95th percentile of all players who have tested at that position. So I decided to look at the RAS scores of all of Brian Gutekunst's first round picks. Here they are:
Jaire Alexander 9.5
Rashan Gary 9.95
Darnell Savage 8.35
Jordan Love 8.45
Eric Stokes 9.37
Quay Walker 9.63
Devonte Wyatt 9.56
I've previously stated how much I think the Packers' could use a player like Brian Branch. Brian Branch's RAS score so far is a paltry 6.1, but he didn't do any of the agility tests at the combine. Hopefully he will do so at the Alabama Pro Day and show he might fits what the Packers look for. Otherwise, it's back to the Round One prediction drawing board.
Was hoping Brian Branch's bench would help, but ultimately moved his RAS down slightly. https://t.co/TNm9fF5yLw #RAS pic.twitter.com/8aRnEpA3az
— Kent Lee Platte (@MathBomb) March 4, 2023
Addendum: Since someone asked in the comments, here are a couple of articles by Brian Maafi, who does some of our scouting reports here on the Packers' draft tendencies and thresholds, taking RAS into account.
https://atbnetwork.com/2023/02/07/decoding-the-packers-way/
https://atbnetwork.com/2023/
More Combine: Speaking fo the NFL Combine, I was absolutely floored by the performance of the DL/EDGE group on day one. Every year results improve but it seems like they took a BIG jump this year. It's scary to think about these huge men flying around the football field at those speeds.
2023 Tackle Prospects: You may (or may not) know that I've handled the offensive tackle position for the Cheesehead TV Draft Guide for the last 12 years. I'm not nearly done watching film on the top 30 or so prospects, but from what I've seen so far, this is one of the weakest OT groups overall I can remember. Normally by the Combine, I have an overshadowed prospect or two that are my "sleepers" or value picks. None yet this year with about 10 more players remaining to watch film on. I'd even say that the top five are kind of middle of the road compared to previous years. I'm curious to hear your comments on which OTs you like in this draft.
Finally, this is interesting from a guy who knows a little about quarterbacks:
"Just watching him, I've never been so shocked or taken by a guy at first glance."
Former NFL HC Mike Martz is 𝐚𝐥𝐥 𝐢𝐧 on Jordan Love ahead of what is likely to be his first season as an #NFL starter 🏈 pic.twitter.com/iPM1rdtluy
— The 33rd Team (@The33rdTeamFB) March 7, 2023
As fo the Draft Guide: We're making it much simpler to get the guide this year. It will be available on the CHTV Store on April 3rd and you will be able to get it immediately.
PLEASE SUBSCRIBE TO OUR CHEESEHEAD NATION WEEKLY NEWSLETTER HERE.
__________________________
"Jersey Al" Bracco is the Editor-In-Chief, part owner and wearer of many hats for CheeseheadTV.com and PackersTalk.com. He is also a recovering Mason Crosby truther. Follow Al on twitter at @JerseyalGBP.
__________________________
Comments (257)
NickPerry
March 08, 2023 at 06:21 am
I know there's others here like me, and those who are dreading the news on Rodgers. I for one can't wait to hear the BOOM!
Gotta say I like what Martz had to say about Jordon Love and personally couldn't agree more. ESPECIALLY about the having invested 3 years in him already, lets SEE what we have before anything else!
Thanks for the update on the Draft Guide Al. I've been waiting to buy it again like I have for the last several years. Can't wait for April 3rd!
BTW... I purchased a zip-up sweatshirt at the CHTV store and I have to say I was surprised at the quality. Don't get me wrong, I didn't expect it to be a piece of crap, but the sweatshirt was much thicker, much better quality than I expected is what I'm saying. If you've never purchased or even visited the CHTV store, take it from a customer...It's worth a look!
T7Steve
March 08, 2023 at 07:10 am
All right Nick! Looking to get another kick back sweatshirt? LOL. You've got me sold.
Good luck!
NickPerry
March 08, 2023 at 05:14 pm
Thanks Steve...I think you'll be really happy with the new "Kick Back Sweatshirt" if you get one here.
JerseyAl
March 08, 2023 at 08:46 am
Thanks Nick - they really are good quality. Thanks for supporting the Draft Guide and CheeseheadTV!
greengold
March 08, 2023 at 08:54 am
Hey Al, did Brian do one for the defense? There are two links, but each goes to the offense. FYI
BrianMaafi
March 08, 2023 at 09:31 am
Here you go boss!
https://atbnetwork.com/2023/02/15/decoding-the-packers-way-part-2/
greengold
March 08, 2023 at 09:37 am
Thank you very much, Brian!!!
(....goes straight to DB) "Now this is where the fun begins."
LOL!!!! Too good!!! Cheers!
NickPerry
March 08, 2023 at 05:10 pm
Absolutely Al... You guys are/will always be my all-time favorite Packers site!
MooPack
March 08, 2023 at 06:38 am
Tick, Tick, Boom: I'd expect a deal done in the next day or two.
RAS: I had either Brian Branch or Broderick Jones as my No. 1. Branch probably dropped out of the 1st with that score. Like you say, maybe his Pro Day can bring a score up or his agility is elite.
2023 Tackle Prospects: And so Broderick Jones is my No.1 pick at #13 (from Jets) or Packers #15. They may not even get a shot at either. I'm seeing him rise to the 11 spot now more consistently. Not overly impressed with this class either, but Jones is the best of the bunch to me.
dobber
March 08, 2023 at 07:25 am
The question really is, if they're set on a trade, whether they move quickly or allow other teams to try to bid this thing up? While I hope they can resolve this quickly (and before the start of the league year) I want the best return possible.
packerbackerjim
March 08, 2023 at 08:01 am
While I can appreciate the desire to get the best possible return, AR holds more than a little leverage in determining where he goes IF he goes. The details about how much money,possible players coming back and which draft choices need to be ironed out. Those negotiations will take some time.
Leatherhead
March 08, 2023 at 08:47 am
AR can retire or take the trade. That's his leverage.
Tekraut17
March 08, 2023 at 10:12 am
Or play for GB as he is still under contract and making a ton of cheddar.
croatpackfan
March 08, 2023 at 11:04 am
Not, if Packers decided to trade him. His only leverage would be retirement.
Untylu1968
March 08, 2023 at 08:25 am
If the trade does go down, I believe it'll be far less than most fans believe. So you can cue up the management doesn't know what they're doing band, when the reality is, you take whatever you can get, for a guy that is near the end, and probably doesn't really want to be in Green Bay anyway.
dobber
March 08, 2023 at 09:01 am
Very true, and that's the sobering part. Hopefully they won't just take a jug of Gatorade and a used jugs machine for him, but I think the level of compensation if a trade does happen will tell us something about just how urgently the Packers wanted to move on.
T7Steve
March 08, 2023 at 09:27 am
What I'd really like to see is them trade him for Hackett. LOL.
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 09:37 am
The true compensation is mitigation of the burdens that they voluntarily assumed last year. And it is only mitigation. Last year we could have got out with out the lingering dead cap and probably more picks. Agreeing to a trade now is acceptance that they really screwed up last year.
Confessedly, I thought they did screw up massively then and yet I note that it’s better to face up to mistakes than pretend they weren’t errors, but the magnitude of the cost to the team even if we get notable picks now demands some serious questions.
As a corollary, the reason a trade now is imperative is not picks but remediation. If we get that, then we have something important already. Any picks will depend on the market beyond the Jets, what Rodgers says and is willing to commit to suitors and will probably be diminished by the contractual baggage.
This trade, if it happens, shouldn’t be judged by the number of picks, but whether one believes it’s essential to any hope of contention in the medium term. If it isn’t, then It shouldn’t be happening.
I happen to have long believed that it is essential, but that shouldn’t change the analysis and nor should it obscure the real purpose and allow picks to become a prime justification. If it is truly justified then picks are a bonus, a valuable one, but never a valid driver of the decision to transact.
MainePackFan
March 08, 2023 at 11:23 am
CW, in my opinion, this is driven more by the Packers desire to make way for Jordan Love than AR's contract. I think they saw leaps and bounds improvement from Love that they didn't anticipate based on what they had seen in previous years.
Without Love's huge jump I highly doubt they would be pushing Rodgers out the door. Both sides knew when they put this contract together, it would not play out as written. It's Love's improvement that makes them feel comfortable moving on from AR. Even if Rodgers' contract was a bargain, I think they would still be doing what they are doing.
If the trade does in fact happen : )
jurp
March 08, 2023 at 01:15 pm
If the team had finished with a better record and won a playoff game, I doubt that this would be happening, regardless of Love's jump.
MainePackFan
March 08, 2023 at 01:57 pm
That may be true Jurp, but if they didn't think Love could be the answer at QB, the decision to move on from Rodgers would be much more difficult.
If they had won 13 games again and won a Super Bowl, you are correct, they wouldn't be moving on from Rodgers.
I don't think the Packers blame last year on Rodgers. They see a young QB whose development in year 3 exceeded all expectations, and that makes this worth the risk.
I'm sure the Packers have people who make them aware of what the fanbase is saying on social media. Not that that is what they base their final decision on, but they know the fanbase is ripe for a change. That, JL's improvement, and last years record makes it easier to rip off the band aid and move on.
dobber
March 08, 2023 at 06:03 pm
I just don't think this situation is as much on Love as others do. I think it's more on 12's apathetic and snotty 2022 behavior and a contract they wish they could take back, but are running out of time to get out from under.
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 06:10 pm
I too doubt that it’s got all that much to do with Love. I think something happened over the last 12 months that has made them either see the error that they made or to reevaluate their assumptions based in subsequent happenings. No way of knowing the details, but If it was Love, I think he’d definitely have started a game or two last year.
MainePackFan
March 08, 2023 at 07:27 pm
" I think it's more on 12's apathetic and snotty 2022 behavior"
What snotty behavior dobber? Give me an example so I understand. You actually think they are moving to Jordan Love because of AR's "apathetic and snotty 2022 behavior " ?
So you don't think it's Love's talent? You think it's AR's attitude? For real???
Holy s**t, if he is as bad as you people make him out to be, for as long as you make him out to be, why in God's name would any organization sign him to a long term contract???
MainePackFan
March 08, 2023 at 07:42 pm
To be clear dobber and CW. If Tim Boyle was going to be the QB next year, your assessment would be the same? it's AR's apathetic and snotty 2022 behavior and not Jordan Love's ability that would make the Packers feel comfortable moving on?
Seriously....? that's your take : )
Oppy
March 08, 2023 at 08:25 pm
Maine,
Let me repeat myself for the 6th or 7th time in the last two weeks.
31 of 32 teams in the NFL are privately held for-profit businesses.
Revenue, and more importantly, Income are the most important points for those 31 teams.
Rodgers is a first ballot HoF'er. He will sell season tickets, he will sell at the gate, he will sell hot dogs and beer, he will sell jerseys.
That's why many teams would gamble on him even though he's a legendary PITA / toxic personality.
They don't give a shit. He's a better arm than what they've got, and he makes money.
MainePackFan
March 09, 2023 at 05:32 am
Oppy,
I'm well aware of the for-profit structure of 31 teams in the NFL. I don't see anything toxic about AR's personality. Annoying sometimes perhaps, but not toxic.
The Packers aren't moving on from Rodgers because of his personality. They are moving on because a younger ascending QB they drafted in the 1st round has proven to them that he is ready. If the didn't feel Jordan Love was ready, I don't believe they would be trading AR.
Oppy
March 09, 2023 at 07:56 pm
They snagged Love when they did because of Rodgers' personality.
They went out and got a QB to develop because they were tired of Rodgers' ego and inability to be a team player. They made the decision to start moving on because of Rodgers' attitude.
Make no mistake, there's a lot of this move that's about attitude, personality, etc. Rodgers has talent. He's a problem. Has been for a long time.
Hematite
March 08, 2023 at 02:13 pm
I'm so with you unty, word for word, thought for thought.
Git er done so we can move into the future.
BOOM!!
DoubleJ
March 08, 2023 at 08:49 am
Jones wouldn't be my top OT. There is plenty of evidence that shows SEC OL, especially OT, don't pan out in the NFL. They always come in a these uber athletic guys but they cannot handle the NFL. Give me Peter Skoronski or Paris Johnson Jr over Jones.
I also am not as high on Mayer as so many others. I look at him as a slightly faster Richard Rodgers III who will struggle mightily in the NFL as he isn't fast enough. After the combine his RAS was sub 8 and would likely be even worse if he had done agility drills.
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 09:46 am
I don’t claim Al’s expertise at linemen evaluation, but I really do not like this class. I’m also not impressed by the safeties as a source of immediate starters. Looking at Branch, his tape doesn’t scream a misleading Combine score. Unless the scouts know otherwise, he’s not a first round gamble we can afford.
I think Mayer might be useful, but I really don’t see a first round talent at the NFL level at this point. I’m leaning more and more to trading back unless we can get a pick in the top ten as a result of the trade. I might still trade our original first rounder back even then and look for value in the second on offense.
The one offensive player that might well get to 15 that I would consider for upside and current contribution is Washington. I still think he’s a later in the first round prospect, but that may be changing. I don’t see Johnston there and I will not take a RB with our needs and cap issues.
greengold
March 08, 2023 at 11:11 am
I like TE Darnell Washington a lot. Huge target. Huge problem for opposing defenders in getting off his blocks.
I would trade down from #15 for the value that presents. We're not in that one space where one or two players can take us over the top. Not with glaring, multiple needs at EDGE, S, TE. The Packers could also stand to add another DT, another WR, another CB...
Thankfully, there are abundant talents at EDGE and TE in this draft class overall. After my initial looks this past month, it appears starters can and will be had with Day 3 picks at both positions.
S is another matter entirely. If GB wants upgrades there, they will have to get lucky. Very lucky.
In an EDGE strong draft, I'd be taking the best of the lot Day 1, and would strain myself to the point of injury to keep from taking the right WR, should he fall.
Figure, if we hit TE early, either R1 or R2, he's likely be an instant starter. And, that's knowing TE is a difficult position to learn as a rookie in the NFL. There's that much talent in this class.
Tekraut17
March 08, 2023 at 10:16 am
Exactly right, I totally agree with you on Mayer even though most "expert" mocks show GB taking him at 15. I just don't see it as he's not that fast and TE class is deep. Skoronski is a typical GB player and wants to be here. Slam dunk
4thand10
March 09, 2023 at 05:19 pm
I’d like Darnell Washington….that’s my wish list.
PackyCheese500
March 08, 2023 at 12:39 pm
I would prefer Skoronski over Jones. Jones’ athletic testing will lead to him being over drafted, and SEC tackles don’t have a great recent track record (Evan Neal, Alex Leatherwood).
Skoronski not only has versatility to play many positions but also wants to come to GB. Great character, football IQ, and work ethic. With a RAS over 8 he should be on GBs board. And to those who say he has short arms, just look at the Chargers’ Rashawn Slater, also of Northwestern. Skoronski also can play Guard too.
greengold
March 08, 2023 at 06:39 am
Thanks for this, Al.
“BOOM” is right. All of Packerland is waiting for it to hit, and so many for different reasons.
This is our 3rd straight offseason of this circus.
I’m weary of the subject, myself. Read yesterday about the Packers & Jets having to have agreed to the terms, in principle, for the Jets to have those conversations/in-person visits. The fact they happened as swiftly as they did tells me Gutekunst fired off GB's terms, and the Jets didn’t haggle. I was a little shocked by how quickly this occurred.
Maybe we can surmise the Packers’ compensation will be higher than some might think in trading away the 4-Time MVP. I’m more than happy to wait and see.
In Jordan Love I trust. I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t shock the NFL world in 2023, and beyond.
Appreciate your RAS listing, and you’re right, Branch’s Combine numbers severely disappoint.
My take on that is RAS doesn’t measure anticipation nor the ability to diagnose. Nonetheless, his performance at the Combine might push him further down, allowing the Packers to trade their 2nd R1, #15, (see what I did there?) for an extra pick and still take Branch.
I'm not a huge fan of the "NFL Underwear Olympics." Now, if they had "Geared Up' 40 Times... 3-Cones, etc., with helmets, pads, cleats, on grass??? Count me in.
Regardless, my confidence is not shaken in Branch.
I’m not following this draft as closely as others in the past, and don’t know what to make of your shares regarding OT and DL/EDGE, but I believe we’ll be ok, especially with the good news landing on the EDGE players, our #1 need area.
I’ll be ordering your draft guide again, for sure. It’s always a treat for a draft goon like myself. It really is a great resource.
Cheers!
DoubleJ
March 08, 2023 at 08:54 am
"The fact they happened as swiftly as they did tells me Gutekunst fired off GB's terms, and the Jets didn’t haggle."
It could also be that the Packers have been having conversations with teams since their season ended. Overall I feel getting rid of Rodgers now is at least 3 years too late, in reality I wanted him traded in 2018.
greengold
March 08, 2023 at 08:58 am
DJ, I think the Packers have been in trade discussions with the Jets for two years now. At least. They've been included in the "other teams interested," category throughout the entire circus span since Schefty's bombshell went off just hours prior to the start of the 2021 NFL Draft.
The Jets know what they want, and what the Packers want, and they're going for it.
Good.
Hematite
March 08, 2023 at 02:26 pm
I really hope that this trade doesn't fall apart at the last minute.🙉
PackyCheese500
March 08, 2023 at 12:43 pm
IMO I think the compensation will be a first rounder in 2023 and a conditional second in 2024 that can become a first. The FO won’t accept less than that, I have heard.
And to those who point to the amount we got for Favre, I would also point out that Favre was 10 years removed from his last MVP season. Rodgers is just 1 season removed from his last MVP, and also played this past year with a below average group of pass catchers that also suffered from instability and injury and an OL constantly in flux. I think it is fair to think in NY he’d be better.
NickPerry
March 08, 2023 at 05:23 pm
"In Jordan Love I trust. I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t shock the NFL world in 2023, and beyond."
Frankly I will too. I think he'll take a little time, but I also think he'll shut the naysayers up too. There will be a few bumps along the way, but I think all in all he'll get better with each passing week and the Packers will be in the mix right up to the end of the 2023 regular season...10-7 or 11-6...At least!
2023 is still going to be a tougher year due to the dead money we'll be dealing with from Rodgers contract, but with another year under the belts of Watson, Doubs, Toure, and THIS years draft haul, Love will be cooking with nitro in 2024!!!
jurp
March 08, 2023 at 07:02 am
I have to give the Jets credit - they're truly going all out to land Rodgers with the quickly planned cross-country trip by their entire upper (football) management team to meet with him. Namath on board with letting Rodgers use his number was a very nice touch - it wouldn't surprise me if they took a home Jets #12 jersey with them, too. If this deal falls through, it won't be because the Packers or Jets screwed anything up. And if it falls through, I can't believe any other deal will happen, either.
As for RAS, how far back in time do the scores go? I tried to search but came up with lots of weird non-football results. I know Gutekunst seems to live by RAS scores, but is their an actual statistical basis for relying on them over more traditional evaluation methods?
As for Love, let the good times roll...
MooPack
March 08, 2023 at 07:04 am
RAS - 1987 I believe.
jurp
March 08, 2023 at 07:54 am
Thanks!
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 10:08 am
Which is the year a single testing event under NFL auspices in Indianapolis started I believe. I think there were a couple elsewhere before that.
JerseyAl
March 08, 2023 at 08:49 am
Jurp, I added a couple of links in the article re: Packers & RAS. Note that the Packers DO NOT use RAS. However, they surely have their own criteria and thresholds and RAS does seem to to align fairly closely to what they like to do.
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 10:15 am
Given that what activities are measured is pretty constant now, the variation will likely be in the weighting by position/role. So we might value agility in an edge slightly more, or height in a CB generally and what we see as the ideal profile for an OLB might be different or may actually be split, for speed rush and power types. We might not even care if a QB can broad jump or an OL run a good time beyond 10 yards in the 40. The proprietary nature of RAS is the formulas and to whom/what roles they are applied. I would expect the Packers to have their own somehow and to adjust them as our views if what is needed evolve.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 08, 2023 at 02:45 pm
Good stuff, Al. Just out of curiosity, do you know if they use SPARQ scoring similar to what the Seahawks/Schneider use?
LambeauPlain
March 08, 2023 at 07:06 am
Surprise! More drama from "12".
This time, into darkness into he would delve.
Emerging, his shadow he did not see,
The Jets will bow and pay his fee.
Love may finally come off the shelf!
Tekraut17
March 08, 2023 at 10:21 am
Drama? He's doing exactly what any top end QB would be doing at this juncture, meeting with a team that apparently wants him. If the media and talking heads didn't follow every second of every minute of his life there wouldn't be any drama. It would just be an offseason..
MainePackFan
March 08, 2023 at 11:45 am
Exactly. Any one that feels this is AR wanting to leave the Packers is kidding themselves. This is the Packers telling AR we appreciate all you have done, but Jordan Love's improvement leads us to believe this is what is best for the Green Bay Packers organization going forward. Thanks for the memories, and we'll see you when you are ready to retire.
jannesbjornson
March 08, 2023 at 12:28 pm
It is all about the Money.
MainePackFan
March 08, 2023 at 02:40 pm
The money and the decision to draft Love in 2020. That is what is forcing the current situation. If they had not drafted Love none of this "drama" would be going on now, or the last 3 years. Read further before downvoting :)
I truly hope drafting Jordan Love turns out to be the right decision and he has a long successful Packer career with a couple Super Bowls by the time he is done. All of the craziness would have been worth it.
jannesbjornson
March 08, 2023 at 03:27 pm
I liked Love, but not the trade up. I still would have somehow maneuvered to #32 for Tee Higgins.
MainePackFan
March 08, 2023 at 03:42 pm
Full disclosure, at the time I was against drafting Tee Higgins in the first round...... and I would have been wrong . I prefer my hindsight vision : )
BirdDogUni
March 08, 2023 at 04:15 pm
The timing was certainly understandable, but I still feel it was ill-advised.
I still feel Gutey trading up was the real problem. Had Gutey stood pat and drafted Love, he could say he was BPA on his board and Aaron Rodgers probably wouldn't have batted an eye. The fact that Gutey traded up for him was wrong IMO.
If someone were to draft Love ahead of our pick, nobody would've been the wiser, and Gutey could've drafted any number of guys... Patrick Queen, Tee Higgins, Michael Pittman, etc...
I love Love. Good kid, talented, and he did need to sit, to learn, and develop...
It seems he's ready now, and it seems Rodgers' time in GB is coming to an end. Maybe it will all work out for the best, but I think it could've been handled much better all the way around.
Handsback
March 08, 2023 at 07:07 am
Does anyone find it strange that Martz would say a comment like that? No context or why he would even be talking about Love. Don't get me wrong, I like Love and want him to start this year but thought the comment was a set-up.
The only player I have heard about was the WR from Ohio State. About 18 months ago a scout told me that Jaxon Smith-Njigba was the best wideout at Ohio State. Since that time they had 2 receivers go in the first round one of them ROY winner. So unless his medical went south...this guy could be the Packer's pick. He's a Sterling Sharpe with better wheels. Just don't be surprised if he's the 1st receiver taken.
Just MHO
croatpackfan
March 08, 2023 at 07:54 am
Go on you tube, search for Jordan Love with Mark Sanchez "4th and forever", than go to podcast "The QB school" and see what QB evaluator have to say about Jordan Love. Than search for other evaluators and analyzes of Jordan Love. Like "Strong Opinion Sports", "AlexRollingsNFL", "Cut N Drive", "JustBombProduction", "NFL on CBS" 2020 draft, 2020 draft "GET UP" witn Todd McShay, etc.
If you want to keep talking he is bust, you can find some records to support your opinion, but there were about 1 bad to 5 not good, but excellent assessments. Jordan Love was projected to go over Justin Herbert in 2020 draft and was consider high as 6th in the 1st round.
greengold
March 08, 2023 at 08:50 am
croat, you are correct, Sir! Ed McMahon vibes... ha ha ha. Yes!!!!
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 10:20 am
Not really, it’s pretty topical and was even before the Jets news. If you think the guy has credibility then give it some weight (he seems to have an excellent pedigree and no subsequent media tarnish).
He’s a football guy producing 3rd party expert media content and this seems like one subject he would logically have on his list after last season. He would not be alone in being able to predict when it might be particularly relevant (now), whether Rodgers retired, stayed or was talking trades.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 08, 2023 at 02:48 pm
It wasnt just a comment. Martz basically made a blog post all about Love. Even broke down a couple plays from film. He also said, "I'd bet the ranch on this guy." Pretty eye opening coming from a guy who coached quarterbacks for 39 years.
https://247sports.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/Article/Longtime-NFL-coach-d...
greengold
March 08, 2023 at 04:23 pm
I respect the hell outta Mike Martz as an Offensive Coordinator guru type. They guy was at the forefront after Holmgren's time here.
I'll have to check that out, being a huge Jordan Love fan.
mrtundra
March 08, 2023 at 07:16 am
Wondering what you think of this, Al? If Branch isn't our choice at Safety, due to his underperforming, whatever, and the Packers feel they will move Rasul Douglas to Safety, do the Packers go after a stud CB, like Witherspoon or Gonzalez, instead of a Safety? I've read reports that Witherspoon, of Illinois, is Jaire 2.0. and that Gonzalez, of Oregon, is a great cover CB. Would the moving of Rasul to Safety open that avenue to draft a CB, instead of a Safety, for the Packers? Also, I am eagerly anticipating the release of the CHTV Draft Guide. It's always a good read!
PackyCheese500
March 08, 2023 at 12:51 pm
Here’s my two cents:
I do not think the Packers should draft a CB this year. Many people forget about the first round investment they made in Eric Stokes. Those two were locked in as the boundary CBS at the start of last season, and since Stokes is on track to make training camp, I would count on that this year. Everyone seems to forget how sensational Stokes’ rookie season was: a 49.5 pct completion percentage allowed: 4th among ALL CBs. 14 PBUs too.
I think we should move Rasul to safety, with Jaire and Stokes as our outside CBs, and convert Savage to a full-time slot corner. We can also resign Ford and have him serve as a veteran S.
In the draft, I would not address S in round 1. Athletic scores aside, I have some concerns as to how well Branch would translate to the Packers defense. The safety class this year isn’t very good; I would look ahead to next year for that position, as the 2024 S class is supposed to be very good.
One guy I would like to see the Packers get in the second at Safety is Sydney Brown, one of the most athletic, versatile, and instinctive Safeties in the class. For first round, though, I would focus on positions that are strong in the draft, like Edge, TE, WR (if it’s Johnston or Smith Njigba), and OT (if we trade or cut Bakhtiari).
jannesbjornson
March 08, 2023 at 02:33 pm
PFN Pre-Trade Fantasy Island
#15 Paris Johnson OT
#40 Uzomah Edge
#65 Kraft TE
#78 Sydney Brown S
#104 Harrison Edge
#116 Trice CB
#125 R Wright CB
#151 Ch Jones WR
#225 Herbig OLB
#234 Ben Sims TE
#244 Curvin OG
#256 Tre Tucker WR
#258 Nichols III RB
#256 J Banks ILB
mrtundra
March 08, 2023 at 09:32 pm
Stokes is coming off a season where he basically underperformed, whether he had an injury, or not, he did not play the same as he did in his rookie season. I think we need to draft a CB, for no other reason than to have depth there.
PackyCheese500
March 08, 2023 at 09:39 pm
Okay, but not in round 1 (and probably not in round 2 either)
dobber
March 08, 2023 at 01:24 pm
The CB class looks much stronger than the S class, and you need to have 4+ CBs who can play. I wouldn't be relying on Savage to be that guy, especially not past 2023. The presence of Stokes and Alexander gives them flexibility in the round where they take that guy, but I think at least one CB in the first two days is a given.
So, I think that if they don't see a FS type in this draft that they feel can step in and play right away, that your scenario is exactly what they'll do: they'll buy the CHTV draft guide! ;)
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 08, 2023 at 02:53 pm
Free agency is how were gonna fill the vacant safety spot. Keep your eye on John Johnson III. Played under Barry with the Rams and is a rock solid player.
dobber
March 08, 2023 at 06:01 pm
I agree. If there's been a position that the FA market has been flush with--and where a street guy has stepped up and played great ball on a prove it deal--pretty much every year, it's SS. Just gotta find the right guy.
murf7777
March 08, 2023 at 07:25 am
For me, I’m going to miss the on-field Rodgers and watching one of the greatest to play the position. On the flip-side I’m probably one of the few who has a Jordan Love jersey and wore it proudly at the KC game and the days proceeding last year game.
Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your perspective, all things change in life and it looks like the time is now to move on. Yes, I’ve struggled with the thoughts of losing Rodgers and the immediate chance to win another championship, but I also am excited to see what we have in Love. I’ll embrace change and all that comes with it; hope, new beginnings and leadership.
I will not forget all the enjoyment Rodgers has provided me over the past 14 years. Much like Favre, I appreciate such greatness. I wish you well and thank you Rodgers for playing hard, whether injured or not, while wearing the G proudly. Go Pack Go!
greengold
March 08, 2023 at 07:53 am
Well said, Murfreesboro! I’’m leaving it as is, in all its Autoincorrect glory.
Everybody’s got their own likes/perspectives. The ability to embrace change is an admirable quality, as change is ever present.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 08, 2023 at 10:47 am
I too agree you expressed your thoughts very well about Rodgers & change Murf!
PackyCheese500
March 08, 2023 at 12:54 pm
Well said. Rodgers has given us so many good moments (and was instrumental in our 4th Lombardi) and I will always be proud to have had him as my favorite team’s QB. Go Pack Go!
Guam
March 08, 2023 at 07:32 am
I have to give Gute credit. His career with the Packers and as a GM in the NFL is likely riding on Jordan Love. He will be defined by this pick and yet he is clearly committed to moving on from Rodgers and playing Love. He has the stones necessary for the job.
Like everyone else, I am waiting to hear about the compensation for Rodgers should he be traded. I am concerned the Russ Wilson failure in Denver as well as Rodgers' age will put a damper on the level of compensation. The big win will be getting out from under the massive contract that would have killed the Packers' cap for several years to come. And hoping Woody Johnson seriously overpays.......
Razer
March 08, 2023 at 09:43 am
...His career with the Packers and as a GM in the NFL is likely riding on Jordan Love...
I hope that Aaron's big contract, friends of Rodgers and all this roster shuffling aren't delay tactics to recognizing a Love mistake. If we were buying time to develop our next leader great. If Gutekunst didn't want to admit to a mistake then we are in the wrong hands. I have no problem with mistakes - it is the cover-up that always gets me. If Love isn't the guy, then we wasted some great years and picks NOT surrounding Rodgers with talent.
Guam
March 08, 2023 at 12:15 pm
I think Love is likely ready to start or the Packers wouldn't be open to moving Rodgers. I don't think Gute would bet his career on a guy who he thought wasn't ready to play.
I was not a fan of the Love draft choice when it happened as I would have preferred to see a better team around Rodgers. However what is done is done and the Love era appears about to begin. I just hope fans will give Love some time to develop. Even Rodgers went 6-10 in his first year after preparing for three years.
BirdDogUni
March 08, 2023 at 12:43 pm
I remember how terrible Rodgers looked in '05, '06, and most of '07... The Dallas game finally gave us what we needed to see to be fine with Favre retiring.
I was so sick of Brett Favre's INTs killing us, I was ready after the NFCCG in '07, to ride with Rodgers no matter what.
After our loss to the 9'ers, I was ready to move on from Rodgers, even if Love wasn't ready.
The Eagles game this year was enough for me. I wish we'd have traded AR to Denver last year, but alas, we didn't, so seeing him go to the Jets and wear Joe Namath's retired "12" jersey is a great consolation prize if you ask me.
Now lets hope Gutey can convert whatever draft compensation he gets into players who can help Jordan Love succeed next season...
T7Steve
March 08, 2023 at 03:09 pm
I think it would show great respect back, if Rodgers comes out on a throwback uniform day with "Namath" on his back.
Bitternotsour
March 08, 2023 at 09:46 am
There will always be another dim-witted billionaire inheritor owner who is willing to step up if Woody Johnson & Johnson fails in his pursuit. Russell Wilson is not Aaron Rodgers. Full stop.
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 10:32 am
The lesson there is that if there’s a unique talent you can’t get, don’t necessarily settle for the nearest equivalent you can get. The word unique is there for a reason and warning.
There were a lot of people I know are knowledgeable that had grave doubts about Wilson’s future potential by the end of 2021. That doesn’t mean that they are right, but it was not a classic, simple, old versus young comparative many in Denver sought to portray it as. Time will tell if that is justified, but so far there appear to be legitimate questions. Of course, if Rodgers moves, it may shed light on whether he would have been a viable option in Denver anyway.
PackyCheese500
March 08, 2023 at 12:55 pm
It is not going to be on a Wilson-esque scale. It just isn’t. I would be happy with a first this year and conditional second that can become a first next year.
T7Steve
March 08, 2023 at 07:33 am
Rodgers moving along. Hope the best for him and thank him for many good memories.
I'm mostly worried that the coaching will let Love down. If they do, I hope people won't judge him harshly his first year. We didn't make the playoffs last year so we can only stay the same or get better. I'm thinking the Lions take a step back because they have all the draft capitol, but they're the Lions and I predict we take the division. You heard it here first.
Sad there are few prospects for O-tackle, but I think we can get enough competition from the guys we have to displace guys like Hansen and Newman. Would like more help at center too (see any Jersy Al?). It might help the depth and make it easier for Tom if he didn't have to work that spot, just guard and tackle.
Untylu1968
March 08, 2023 at 08:35 am
But, there is the flip side to the whole coaching thing. Maybe, just maybe, Love actually runs the designed offense like a fine tuned machine and all ends well. We fall in "Love" and MLF looks like a genius. Might be wishful thinking, but you just never know? Either way, I'll be looking forward as always, to the start of the season, beginning with the draft.
T7Steve
March 08, 2023 at 09:42 am
I believe Rodgers did run MLF's offense with his own twists, however I'm referring to the players they put with him on the O-line and waiting weeks to fix it. I also worry that MLF seems to have a hard time making adjustment at game speed that keeps handicapping the offense and gives advantage to the adjustments made by the defenders' coaches.
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 10:41 am
We are going to find out exactly what both LaFleur and Rodgers are now, if this trade does happen. Rodgers will have a seemingly very strong roster and a very different coach. We will see what he can do with that. LaFleur will have no player to tell him (real or imagined) what he can and can’t do. There appears to be no on field obstacle now to his unleashing his offensive brain without hinderance.
Even if Love struggles, we should very clearly see what LaFleur really brings to the party. Part of that will be how he handles a young QB, personnel usage, play design, in game adjustments. That will speak volumes about the last few years I believe. It’s potentially going to be a very revealing season.
One wild card thought: was the absence of LaFleur and his team from the combine a direct result of knowing that Rodgers was not returning and the constraints were off? That might well mean schematic work now would feed in sufficient value to the draft and FA strategy to make doing it now imperative.
Leatherhead
March 08, 2023 at 10:56 am
How did McCarthy do after Rodgers drove him off? The Cowboys are one of the better teams in the NFC (but they just make too many mistakes to win)
Oh yeah. If Love succeeds like I think he will, then Gutekunst and LaFleur are both going to be vindicated, regardless of what Rodgers does or doesn't do.
Let me be clear: There's no reason for this offense to struggle. Last year, we had "new receivers, Bakhtiari....Jenkins....blah blah blah. None of that applies this year. Look at who is probably lining up for our first snap if we don't add anybody.
Love, Jones/Dillon at RB.
Watson, Doubs, Toure
DeGuara, Tonyan,
Bakhtiari, Jenkins, Nijman, Runyan, Myers, Tom
Every one of these guys has been to the rodeo before. They've all been around for at least a year and some have been around longer. IMO, this group of people should be able to get people blocked, move the ball , and score points
And we could add players in the draft. A TE and a WR. There's plenty enough talent to work with, and if this team doesn't play well right out of the box next year, there's nowhere else to put the blame except on the people in charge of making sure we put a quality product on the field.
T7Steve
March 08, 2023 at 11:15 am
Did you hear if they got a deal done with Nijman? I sure hope so. Except when he was playing hurt the last two games he was a baller.
They need to get another speedster to back up Watson if he gets hurt more. Here's what Mike Spofford had to say in response to a question on II (packers.com) about how it affected last season "...in retrospect – the absence of Christian Watson. He missed the second half of the London game with his recurring hamstring injury, and the offense fell apart. He missed the next two games, returned at Buffalo, and got concussed on the opening series. Then he was held out for precautionary reasons due to a wicked hit late in the Detroit game when the Packers were trying to rally (and had already lost Doubs in the first quarter to injury as well). That's your five-game losing streak. His touchdown binge started the following week vs. Dallas and the season turned around. Watson's health issues played a huge role in the offense's midseason struggles.
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 11:25 am
They don’t need to issue tenders till the afternoon of March 15th. Most come in shortly before the deadline.
BirdDogUni
March 08, 2023 at 01:04 pm
Matt Landers - 6' 4" 200lbs - 4.37 40... (MVS but better routes and hands IMO)
Trey Palmer - 6' 0" 192lbs - 4.33 speed... (Needs to work on his hands catching for sure.)
I'm hoping we get a couple WRs to either complement our current WR Corps or one more beast... (Either way we need at least one or two more WRs.)
Bo Melton might also be our Mecole Hardman or Kadarius Toney?
I haven't even heard if we've tendered Yosh Nijman yet? Thinking the date for that is upcoming shortly.
I hope they put the 1st round tender on him... ($5.432 Million)
dobber
March 08, 2023 at 01:32 pm
Not a knock on you BDU, but lots of people talking up Melton, and I don't see anything but a guy who ran fast at the Combine and hasn't made it onto a game day roster. He'll have to earn his way onto the active roster by STs and hope to make the most of any rare opportunities he gets on offense...glad to be wrong. Got lots of BBQ sauce for crow.
greengold
March 08, 2023 at 04:32 pm
WHOAH!!!! WTF???? Thanks for this info, BirdDogUni!
How did I miss Gutekunst signing Bo Melton? I guess I was that tuned out last season. Here are my draft notes on him:
__
WR Bo Melton - Rutgers
5-11 198 4.34
Since 2020, Melton ranked #19 in Power 5 deep receptions (15), #2 in uncatchable targets (23). This really says it all. Taking out screens, his Catchable TGT Rate was 7th worst in Power 5 over 3 year span. His separation so good it was in 86th percentile.
He shows good understanding of how to run routes and set up defensive backs and has some spectacular plays in his tape. A 4.34 40 at the combine showed he has legit speed as well. Melton broke double-digit tackles in each of the last two seasons.
Shifty. Speedy. EXPLOSIVE. ROUTES. SEPARATION. TOUGH. YAC.
*Just saddled with a really bad QB. Steal late.
__
Melton was one of those guys who just wasn't going to get any good draft round placement because of the piss poor QB play he had to endure. I had often thought he'd be a steal, and I'm kind of stunned that Gutekunst picked him up off waivers. He's a shrewd MF, always with his ear to the ground. Good on Gutey!
I love the balls Gutekunst had to swipe Bo Melton off SEA's practice squad!!! That's cool.
Wow. What a realization!!!
I think Packer Nation is going to freak on Bo. WHO????????????!!!!!!! WOW!!!!!!!!!
Melton was right up there with the intangibles you look for in a solid, tough, sure WR. Great route runner, with speed too! I looked at him last draft as a poor man's version of any of the big names we all knew end R1 all the way through R5 in 2022. Routinely getting great separation, and his QB couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.
Moo.
Seriously stunned to learn this today. I can't believe this and it makes me very happy to know Melton is a Packer. That's a big plus added to our roster, while none of us were looking.
dobber
March 08, 2023 at 05:55 pm
Saw other reports that say that while he has some route-running savvy, but lacks physicality, has inconsistent hands and fails to play to his timed speed. Some success as a gunner, though.
So far, hasn't been that guy who surprises and jumps onto a team's 53. If it were all about the QB play and he was a legit 4.3 guy in pads, we''d hope he could make that statement. Maybe he does, yet, but I'm not expecting much.
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 06:29 pm
Melton can run. He’s going to have to work on his technique. He had some issues with that in Seattle which led to some drops, but he’s not awful and so does Watson. He missed a roster spot in part due to an injury and in part due to the ST and other play of my 7th round wish last year, Dareke Young (taken one before Toure).
Melton has a very powerful lower body, he’s great with the ball in hand and can help as an option. A guy who can be elusive as well as fast. Unfortunately, he really needs to add significant upper body strength. He’s not good at all against press or in contested situations. He made his yards by getting separation first or by being schemed open. He is like having an extra draft pick. He needed weight room time and a year on could be a legitimate contender to contribute.
murf7777
March 08, 2023 at 11:41 am
LH, I tend to agree with you on things, but Watson, Doubs, Toure, Deguara and maybe Tonyan (current free agent) doesn't really strike fear into a defense. IMO, Watson does, but the rest, not so much.
BirdDogUni
March 08, 2023 at 01:24 pm
Bo Melton might strike fear into a defense...
We can hope.
Leatherhead
March 08, 2023 at 02:58 pm
I understand that.
Half our plays involve two guys you didn't mention, Jones (who is our biggest weapon) and Dillon. Next, the main WR is targeted about 10-12 times. So there just aren't a lot of touches for other guys. Nonetheless, I'd like to add a TE and a WR on Day 2.
I have my favorite targets.
The offense, as a whole, should be able to score points, as long as we get blocking.
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 05:23 pm
Most receivers don’t till their names get known or they show they can take the top off a D. Adams didn’t, Jones, Driver, Nelson. Takes time. What that group can be is the relevant assessment.
Leatherhead
March 08, 2023 at 06:52 pm
Like anything else, it's about taking advantage of your opportunities. In 2019, we were struggling badly against Detroit when Alan Lazard finally climbed over enough people to get on the field and he made a play.
I think our offensive engine will be powered by the backs again. So that's 30-35 plays. You'll want to throw to Watson 10 times. That leaves about 20 targets for the others.
Currently the others are
1)Tonyan, who gets about 5 targets.
2) Doubs, who should get about 4 targets
Now we're down to about 11 opportunities. I think if we add a WR and a TE, that's plenty of weaponry. I think we'd have to take Washington at #15 in order to be sure of getting him. There are other TEs we could take later in the draft. The list of big WRs who can run fast and jump high and who are physical in the run game is a short one.
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 07:35 pm
Actually I don’t want to throw to Watson ten times, I want to throw to Watson in quality positions. That means using other receivers/catchers more till they draw coverage and then Watson can kill the game if they shift coverage and we might have a functional offense not the garbage design of last year that other teams figured out in September. Watson nearly got killed being the obvious target and he’s not yet route diverse enough to be played like Adams in 2021, even if that wasn’t overdone.
stockholder
March 08, 2023 at 07:37 am
What Boom. More like Champaign corks going off.
( For the best Tarred and feathered public display ever.)
Instead of writing RODGERS wants to play.
He was the object of a power hungry GM. A MOB.
Hail Gutey, and his REBUILD! And All his glory.
Because this wasn’t about an ALL IN.
It was Something that never should have been.
The drafting of Love. After the best FAs Signings ever.
Avoiding the true needs of what wins championships.
The Trench. The weapons. A Dynasty.
Rodgers didn’t do the drafting. He turned straw into gold.
And he got paid. First #4 now #12. The damage is done.
The storied Franchise is losing an icon.
And the image of Title town is disintegrating with him.
So keep the door revolving now.
MLF and his staff is next.
Because when Bastards have power, It’s about them.
History is being made in Green Bay.
Forget the glory of the game. Turn off the lights.
jurp
March 08, 2023 at 08:02 am
"Hail Gutey, and his REBUILD! And All his glory."
Assuming the trade comes off, then thank you, I will.
"Rodgers didn’t do the drafting. He turned straw into gold."
In 2020 and 2021, Rodgers helped turn gold into straw with his play in the playoffs.
" Turn off the lights." The party's ooooo-ver...
Thanks, now I have an earworm of Don Meredith "crooning" that song after yet another beat-down of the 70s Packers on MNF.
As for the rest of the post... Do you want a little cheese with that whine?
stockholder
March 08, 2023 at 08:10 am
Never touch Whine-
It's always miller time for me.
Spin a pizza instead.
It's the roman thing to do.
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 08:57 am
Actually, Rome is more known for its tripe.
LambeauPlain
March 08, 2023 at 09:57 am
And tripe is the container for shiite.
stockholder
March 08, 2023 at 05:57 pm
Actually, I hope he retires now.
Before he accepts a trade.
PackEyedOptimist
March 08, 2023 at 07:37 am
Hey Al, I always love your work.
Regarding 2023 OTs: I'm a huge proponent of the value of a great OL, but I always have to rely heavily on testing and other scouts' opinions. This year I'm curious about Carter Warren and Braeden Daniels. As much as I'd love to pick stud OLmen early, I feel like our current OL is good enough for that move to be a mistake.
BTW, WR Jonathan Mingo is one of my under-the-radar crushes, and he now posted a 9.9 RAS. His play reminds me of a Sterling Sharpe/Deebo blend.
Leatherhead
March 08, 2023 at 11:05 am
""I feel like our current OL is good enough""
PEO, 'good enough' for what? To win the division? To get the job done in the playoffs? My goal would be to have an offensive line that's one of the best in the league.
Everything is fine until somebody gets hurt. We could line up Bakhtiari,Runyan, Jenkins, Myers,Nijman, which is pretty good. Tom gives us great versatility in overcoming the first injury,
But that second injury is going to make a starter out of one of these guys: Newman, Rhyan, Walker....and when that happens, I'm not sure we're good enough. If we could get a guy who could be our starting RT, it puts Nijman on the bench along with Tom and that's better depth.
T7Steve
March 08, 2023 at 03:19 pm
Still would love to see a goal line lineup with Nijman and Caleb Jones together. That's a couple big bodies that would HAVE to move people for Dillon to crash through.
PackyCheese500
March 08, 2023 at 01:08 pm
Totally agree about Jonathan Mingo. He reminds me of AJ Brown and Debo and could be an absolute steal! His highlights are insane. Would love to see I’m in the Green and Gold. He seems like the type of player the FO would like.
stinkycheesehead
March 08, 2023 at 07:37 am
Could be tic-tic--------------------------------------DUD!!!! if rogers isn't traded!
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 08:57 am
Right, it’s not done till it’s signed and official.
murf7777
March 08, 2023 at 09:10 am
CW, you're right and I think it's far from done. So many variables at play yet. This could go smoothly or really ugly. Hard to tell.
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 11:09 am
My guess is that the true negotiations are only now starting in earnest, and that’s if they’ve managed to find themselves on the same page in terms of what they want philosophical and in terms of commitment. That they should now have got to (or failed to) an agreement in principle: ‘we agree that we have an interest collaboration to achieve explicit shared, mutual objectives, if we can now agree mutually acceptable detailed terms.’
murf7777
March 08, 2023 at 02:51 pm
The contract is very complicated and a lot of money left to be dealt with. I think that will be a difficult part to negotiate between the three parties.
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 06:16 pm
That is the nitty gritty, yes.
Packer_Fan
March 08, 2023 at 07:53 am
BOOM! The scab is gone and we can move on. Rodgers needs a change, The Packers fans, FO, the board of directors, and stockholders need a change too.. So let's move on and wish Aaron good luck.
The Pack will get 1st and 2nd round picks this year and a conditional 1st round pick next year. So with that, here is the order to draft. We don't need players from the Jets.
1st Round: IDL & Edge. The D line and rush need help. Load up.
2nd Round: WR & TE. Lots of good talent at TE and we need more WR help.
3rd Round: CB. Moving Douglas to S I think is smart. He is a very instinctive player.
Free Agents: TE Hurst from Cincinnati. This will retool the TE position for a few years.
WR Hardman from KC. He has speed and an upside.
Safety from KC. Two guys from the Super Bowl winner who know how to win.
Bring back Nixon. Consider bringing back Ford and Reed for depth.
So... both Farve's and Rodgers last pass was an interception. Both Rodgers and Love sat for three years.
It took Rodger a year to excel, it just may be the same for Love. We may not have a winning record, but the team will be competitive. We will need Lafleur to force Barry to be more aggressive. That is most of my worry for next year.
marpag1
March 08, 2023 at 08:08 am
"The Pack will get 1st and 2nd round picks this year and a conditional 1st round pick next year."
I hope like hell you're right, but I'd be floored if they could get this much. I'm not sure if there is even one 1st rounder in the compensation, but what do i know? I'm definitely out of my depth here.
Any compensation that includes a 1st, and I will be more than satisfied. I'm tempering my expectations in case there is no first rounder at all.
croatpackfan
March 08, 2023 at 08:19 am
I'm with you. I believe draft picks will be bounded how much money Packers would like to swallow from 2023 ACR income. Will they accept that 40.3 mill $ dead money cap hit or more.
On the other hand when you see what Jones signed with Giants and Geno Smith with Seattle, I do think Jets value ACR hire than 40 mill $ player. His less than 60 mill $ does not look that much when you put that in consideration.
marpag1
March 08, 2023 at 08:34 am
I agree with those people who think that the real issue for the Jets is how long Rodgers is willing to play. If he's a one year rental, then we're not going to see much draft compensation. But if they feel he will play multiple years... all bets off.
I think the Giants will be disappointed with Jones. My guess is that Jones will be the eternal "OK, but never good enough" sort of guy. In other words, the G-men are spending a lot of money for a younger version of Kirk Cousins. Even that might be a bit optimistic, in my opinion.
PackyCheese500
March 08, 2023 at 01:05 pm
Daniel Jones and Kirk Cousins are both more similar than you think. For instance look at both of their records when playing in prime time!
Racingdad
March 08, 2023 at 08:48 am
The 40 mil dead cap can not go away. Or be traded away. Dead cap hits are for money paid to players in the past but hits in future against cap. When ar is traddd that 40 counts against this yrs cap the good news is it’s only about 9 mil more than what was to be counted this yr and than it’s done no more ar charges after this yr
LambeauPlain
March 08, 2023 at 01:27 pm
Especially when you can get additional high draft choice players on rookie deals to mitigate some of the sting of the dead cap money.
BirdDogUni
March 08, 2023 at 11:57 am
Davante Adams garnered a 1st and 2nd round pick. Raiders knew he wasn't going anywhere else...
If in fact we trade AR12 to the Jets, the Packers will get "decent" compensation... They learned their lesson from the Favre fiasco...
I'm not going to predict a King's Ransom, but at minimum it will be a 1st and 2nd, IMO...
The key isn't what we get in trade for AR12, but what Gutey does with those picks.
To me it depends on who is available and who the Packers like obviously...
My first instinct is to draft a Broderick Jones to protect Jordan Love's blindside for a decade like Bakh did for AR12... If we don't trade Bakh pre-draft, I think it could easily happen before the trade deadline, which would give Broderick Jones the time to get acclimated to the NFL game and our offense.
My second wish is Gutey would draft more weapons than we actually need for Love to succeed. We've loaded the defense with more talent than I thought possible, so adding guys like Quentin Johnston, Darnell Washington, and Devon Achane (Aaron Jones replacement when applicable) would be my hope for the Packers draft.
Yes, we can draft another DL, OLBer, CB, or Safety if they're BPA. I have no problem with drafting defense, but I think of all the drafts since 2005, this one ought to be geared towards giving Jordan Love everything he needs to excel quickly in his new roll as QB1 for GB!
PackyCheese500
March 08, 2023 at 01:03 pm
We only go OT if Bakh is not on the team in 2023. I think we should take one edge and one offensive player in round 1.
Also I’d stay away from Achane. He is easily injured and our RB room is already stacked.
dobber
March 08, 2023 at 01:38 pm
"Davante Adams garnered a 1st and 2nd round pick. Raiders knew he wasn't going anywhere else...
If in fact we trade AR12 to the Jets, the Packers will get "decent" compensation... "
I think your point is a good one: it's been the wild west in trading draft compensation for established vets the last couple years. I think GMs are devaluing draft lottery tickets over proven, developed players. It's hard to predict what that might look like in this case if a trade comes to fruition.
PackyCheese500
March 08, 2023 at 01:01 pm
I think it is a 2023 first and a 2024 conditional second that can become a first
greengold
March 08, 2023 at 09:20 am
Packer_Fan, I think you're right about the higher compensation that GB will realize here - despite all the cogent views previously shared on this, for weeks.
Woody Johnson stated recently when asked about Aaron Rodgers, that he wants "Plug & play," players, the best he can get at QB. He also knows that time is money.
I wouldn't doubt after years of discussions with the Jets, a rapport has been built up. A trust between the two teams. I also wouldn't be shocked to learn the Packers would give NYJ "Exclusive Rights," in negotiating a deal that carries with it higher picks (two R1s), but along with that a commitment by the Packers to pay a significant portion of Rodgers' salary that would be owed by the Jets, and the agreement that the Packers would deal with the Jets exclusively.
Deals take time, and the last thing NYJ wants is to be waiting on these other team's offers to the Packers for AR. This deal in particular will take a lot more time than most to assemble.
I think the same parties have been in discussions on and off since 2021 on an AR trade.
That's what made me think, initially, that this will likely be a package deal (unprecedented, yes) which would also include David Bakhtiari. Not saying I want to trade him, personally. Only that the subject has to have come up. It just makes too much sense. The Jets don't have cap room to add a time tested veteran via FA should the AR trade happen, but they do have almost all of their draft picks for the next 5 years...
Does anybody in their right mind think the Jets would go through all of this in acquiring AR only to leave his blindside unprotected?
How does a team with little cap compensate another team in trade for a Top LT? Draft picks. Players don't figure in as much as the dead cap hits compound their existing cap problems. They will figure out a way to make it happen.
That's why I've been thinking this could prove to be a blockbuster deal. We all know Aaron, and he's not going to want to go anywhere without Bakhtiari. True or False?
If Rodgers demands it, it's probably going to happen. We've learned this to be true.
dobber
March 08, 2023 at 01:43 pm
"Does anybody in their right mind think the Jets would go through all of this in acquiring AR only to leave his blindside unprotected?"
Duane Brown is coming back to play LT. He played last season with a torn rotator cuff and still only surrendered 1 sack.
greengold
March 08, 2023 at 02:13 pm
Duane Brown tore his labrum, played in 12 games with it in his 16th season, had offseason surgery on that shoulder, and is now looking to return as a starting LT.
Mekhi Becton blew his knee out in TC in 2021 and has yet to return. An avulsion fracture of his right knee cap. The Jets are not picking up his 5th Year Option for 2024. No news on Becton's prognosis for a possible return.
RT Max Mitchell? He was diagnosed with a severe, life threatening blood clotting issue... selected #11 overall in the 2022 NFL Draft.
What could possibly go wrong? LOL, dobs.
Not a lot of confidence there. Brown would be starting his 17th season.
ps. I find it funny that Tom Silverstein called out Bak today as being of great trade value to the Jets... just sayin'...
Lemme get this straight. We're talking about possibly trading away two superstars at the most important positions on any NFL team in Aaron Rodgers & David Bakhtiari?
And, we walk away with our junk in our hands? Uhhhhhhh, no.
We just restructured the bejesus out of everybody, except Bakhtiari. Jon Runyan in last year of his deal... not extended... The Jets would gladly take 2 OL off our hands and would pay handsomely for that in draft picks.
You just can't make this shit up. Oh, yeah, and even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while. (Clears throat) Ahem! Now, where are my glasses?
ROFLMAO. ;-)
PackyCheese500
March 08, 2023 at 01:00 pm
I can agree to the draft priorities, but not the free agents. I don’t see the point in overpaying mid-level players unless youre trying to go all in
croatpackfan
March 08, 2023 at 08:07 am
Al, thank you again on well rounded article.
I would like to know what do you think about Jimmy Ward from 49ers and if there enough salary cap space to eventually sign him. He is projected to get 2 years ~15 mill $. What do you think, is he worth that money?
PackyCheese500
March 08, 2023 at 01:01 pm
I think he is too old for where the Packers are now in the team building process
croatpackfan
March 08, 2023 at 02:00 pm
I just thought to get one experienced and good safety, as looks like safety are not that good in this draft class. He is big enough to help against run if needed, too.
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 06:36 pm
He would be a placeholder type pick up if we did. It’s possible that we have to go that route. I’ve seen Ward touted as an option if we do.
PatrickGB
March 08, 2023 at 08:08 am
Yes, I am also surprised by the RAS score’s rising almost every year. Yet it makes sense because college football players are beginning to train for it. Of course, things like size can’t change.. But certainly other “skill” tests can be improved. I figure that if athletes can be trained in a sport, they can also be trained in the combine. These things are only a clue to a player’s potential in the NFL.
egbertsouse
March 08, 2023 at 08:10 am
I wish the bomb would go off too. Until it does, I will be worried that Rodgers will throw a monkey wrench into the whole thing. If there is a way to torpedo the works, Diva will find a way, especially if it maximizes attention.
RCPackerFan
March 08, 2023 at 09:03 am
Do you have nightmares of Rodgers?
RCPackerFan
March 08, 2023 at 08:13 am
Tick, Tick, Boom?
We will see what really happens. The last report I saw last night was that this is purely based on what Rodgers wants to do. That if he wants to leave he can, if he wants to stay he can. Not sure what is true, but that was the last thing I saw last night.
Relative Athletic Score (RAS):
I know Gutey values RAS. The few players he went away from that metric the players struggled. I would anticipate whoever the packers take in the first round, they will have a RAS score of 9 or higher.
I've previously stated how much I think the Packers' could use a player like Brian Branch.
Branch didn't have a great combine, but hopefully he can improve that at his pro day.
More Combine:
We really need help at DL and EDGE. so hopefully they can grab a couple of these guys.
2023 Tackle Prospects:
I haven't looked at the OT prospects much yet. But I will say I think the Packers set themselves up pretty nicely at OT last year. They brought in Tom, Walker, Jones, Tenuta. All of which have a chance to be a starter going into this year. They could resign Yosh also. And if they had to, they could put Jenkins back outside. They will definitely be drafting OL this year. They draft at least 1 every year and each of the last 3 years they drafted 3.
Finally, this is interesting from a guy who knows a little about quarterbacks:
I saw Martz talking. Its very good to hear and optimistic. I will just say though, that it felt a bit over the top. But its good to hear how others feel about Love.
As fo the Draft Guide:
Easier is better.
croatpackfan
March 08, 2023 at 08:23 am
"We will see what really happens. The last report I saw last night was that this is purely based on what Rodgers wants to do. That if he wants to leave he can, if he wants to stay he can. Not sure what is true, but that was the last thing I saw last night."
Well I just heard that ACR welcomed Jets delegation at the Airport. It also says something. And he did not send them home, but have, I suppose, pleasent evening in talk with them.
RCPackerFan
March 08, 2023 at 08:41 am
Yeah, its hard to know what really is going on. But I saw the Jets left last night to go back to NY, and now its all up to Rodgers.
Only time will tell what will happen.
croatpackfan
March 08, 2023 at 09:19 am
I agree with you. It is very likely that all that noice come with the trade at the end, but with ACR you never knows.
RCPackerFan
March 08, 2023 at 09:22 am
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if Rodgers is back in GB this year. It wouldn't surprise me if he was traded. It wouldn't surprise me if he retired. I really think all these options are on the table.
croatpackfan
March 08, 2023 at 09:50 am
I can agree with you, but I would like to add that all those talks with Jets have some leverage. As I understood Packers gave approval to both sides to talk, not about weather or global warming. It talks clearly that Packers are ready to make a move.
I believe Packers are looking the way to make that possible with as low PR damage on all sides as they can. Also, there must be some kind of conversation between Packers and ACR about that situation. I doubt that they would give permission to anybody to talk about trade with ACR without his nod.
He said he do not want to play for team in rebuilding and Packers have no other option than to do that.
But, complicated fella... you never know what he will do.
And I strongly believe he will play at least another 2 years.
Only when I can see where we disagree are the motives of ACR. I, also, trully believe does not think about wellfare of Packers. And I can accept I might be wrong...
RCPackerFan
March 08, 2023 at 10:09 am
I will agree with you on the GB side, that they seem more willing to let Rodgers go then anytime before. Before they said no.
I completely agree with you on the Packers side as well about trying to move along without PR damage. Just like last year with Adams. They took almost no PR damage because it was all on Adams. Adams wanted gone so they traded him for him. They took almost no heat for that.
I disagree about the rebuilding thing. I don't think this team is as far off to say they are in full rebuild mode. Also comparing the Jets to the Packers, what does the Jets have that GB doesn't have?
I also agree with you that he will play 2 more years.
I think Rodgers is more looking out for himself. He has been trying to use his leverage to the fullest. To be fair, I don't blame him. Most of us would do the same thing.
Bitternotsour
March 08, 2023 at 09:53 am
x
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 10:58 am
They left this morning early from reports I’m seeing. Spent the afternoon and evening with him reportedly.
croatpackfan
March 08, 2023 at 11:16 am
I would like sometimes to be shapeshifter. You know. Form yourself as fly and hide behind curtains and listen.
After meeting or socializing ends hour or two place the "insider twitter post" what was discussed and what was result.
My God. It would be easy to screw any deal with one post...
murf7777
March 08, 2023 at 09:09 am
RC....I liked Love out of the draft. Never had a problem with drafting him after Rodgers with some injuries, had a couple of sub-Rodger like years. Of course, what do I really know about rating QB's. It's exciting to see someone like Martz, who directed one hell of an offense speak so highly of him. I agree with his analysis, not because I'm a homer, which I am, but because everything he said makes sense to me. It's also what I've seen when he plays. I've seen him get better with each opportunity to play. That's really all you can ask for because it's extremely rare that you can predict the future stardom of a QB after a few games or a season.
What I do know, is drafting in general, especially QB's is a crap shoot. NFL is so different from college. That is why Ron Wolf and his successor TT to a lesser extent drafted QB's most every draft. Not much in the early rounds, but mid to late to see if they could get a diamond in the rough and develop them. Which they did with some really good success. This happened even in Favre's glory years.
This whole thing is so eerily similar to Favre. Although, unlikely, hoping for a similar outcome, other than the draft picks obtained for trading Favre.
RCPackerFan
March 08, 2023 at 09:21 am
Murf -
My only problem with drafting of Love was the timing. I just didn't think timing was right. But in turn it did help Rodgers in someway turn in back to back MVP seasons. So that was a good thing.
The draft itself is crap shoot. Its all about projecting. Its about seeing what a guy may do in the future. Think of some of the HOF types of players that lasted until the final few rounds. Every year it happens. Sometimes its just being at the right place at the right time. The player having the right coach or the right scheme. Sometimes it works the opposite ways. But thinking about back to when Rodgers was drafted. He came to GB and sat behind Favre. Alex Smith went to GB and played right away. Would Rodgers have had the career he had if he went to the 49ers? I don't think so. He needed the time to develop. Hopefully the same thing happens with Love. But some times players need that development time.
This is eerily similar to Favre. And of course the Jets are the team coming after our QB. so many parallels. its crazy.
croatpackfan
March 08, 2023 at 11:20 am
RCP Fan, Packers were not party in Jordan Love's decision to be part of the draft. And what I found out on the net, he had very high opinion from a lot of experts. Only remark was that he need additional time to develop, but he has very high ceiling, that high as very few QBs have.
No matter what you are not passing that kind of opportunity when is step in front of you!
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 08, 2023 at 03:10 pm
There's no such thing as good timing when you're drafting a hall of fame quarterback's replacement. Whether they did it in 2020, 2021, 2022, or this year, it was always going to complicate things between Rodgers and the front office. There's just no way around it.
greengold
March 08, 2023 at 10:23 am
"That is why Ron Wolf and his successor TT to a lesser extent drafted QB's most every draft. Not much in the early rounds, but mid to late to see if they could get a diamond in the rough and develop them. Which they did with some really good success."
I've thought about this often, and I can't help but think it was Mike Holmgren who made 1992's R9 Ty Detmer, 1993's R5 Mark Brunell, and 1998's R6 Matt Hasselbeck such great NFL QBs, and trade commodities for the Packers.
Luck is certainly involved too, as no one remembers QBs Ron McAda, nor Kyle Wachholtz, nor Jay Barker from Ron Wolf's GM tenure.
But, luck doesn't deliver what Holmgren was able to, to help guide each of Detmer/Brunell/Hass into legit starting QB prospects in the NFL.
The number of swings and misses is telling of Thompson's tenure. Aaron Rodgers literally fell into his lap as his very first NFL Draft Pick as a General Manager, in 2005. After that one? Yeeesh:
2006 R5 Ingle Martin
2008 R2 Brian Brohm
2008 R7 Matt Flynn
2012 R7 BJ Coleman
2015 R5 Brett Hundley
RCPackerFan
March 08, 2023 at 10:53 am
I wouldn't say that Matt Flynn was a miss for Thompson though. Flynn was actually a great find as a 7th round pick. But very true about the other QB's.
And then there was the very first big move made by Gutey. The Deshone Kizer trade. He traded Damarious Randall for Kizer. They did swap their 4th and 5th round picks so the Packers got higher picks that year.
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 11:06 am
The coaching staff wanted Randall gone. He got something rather than nothing through a cut. In those circumstances I’d do the same every time. He also was willing to cut bait on Kizer for a UDFA. I’m not going to criticize him for any of that.
RCPackerFan
March 08, 2023 at 11:19 am
correct in the way of that I agree with that. They got something vs nothing. I didn't track down the draft picks to see what we got vs what the Browns got, so maybe we bettered ourselves there too.
But the evaluation of Kizer was off too. I remember there was talks that they were very high on him and considered using a draft pick on him. That part was the bigger concern then anything.
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 10:56 am
Flynn was a very good value pick up. Had his elbow held up he may well have had a long career. Brohm was a rancid choice: the anti-Rodgers. Because of Flynn and the level of investment, I’d say we came out even. I’d say Wolf came out well ahead. The guy was simply good at spotting QB potential.
jannesbjornson
March 08, 2023 at 03:23 pm
Was it him, or Holmgren ?
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 07:37 pm
I suspect both had their value. I don’t think it was alm Holmgren, though he had a lot to do with post acquisition success obviously.
murf7777
March 08, 2023 at 11:18 am
Also, in 1999 in the fourth round they selected Aaron Brooks. In 2000, they exchanged two players and received a 3rd round pick from the New Orleans Saints. Wolf did seem to have a real ability in distinguishing QB talent.
I'm a believer of drafting QB's often, especially in the mid-late rounds. I did a study, and the interesting thing I found out is if you go back since 1990 or so and look at what Franchises drafted the most QB's you will find GB, NE and Pittsburgh as leaders in that category. Coincidence? I don't think so.
I disagree with the notion Rodgers fell into his lap. Yes, it was a draft anomaly as he was expected to go higher. Others didn't draft him, but he did. There were reasons others didn't. He could've just as well passed on him like his prior peers did. So, I give credit where credit is due.
jlc1
March 08, 2023 at 08:34 am
Tick, Tick.. Boom? Al (La Bohemian) you can pay the Rent for years with that one. Nice.
PeteK
March 08, 2023 at 08:36 am
--Interested in the return for AR, should be nothing less than a 1 & 2. Also, confused on the cap situation of a trade.
--TE, DT,S/CB--IMO are what we need the most. My main draftee is Myers, he reminds me of Andrews. Always like a TE that can block and make the possession catches to move the chains.
BirdDogUni
March 08, 2023 at 08:36 am
https://www.si.com/fannation/bringmethesports/vikings/anthony-richardson...
dobber
March 08, 2023 at 01:51 pm
I hope they trade away a boatload of draft capital and take him. He has heartbreaker written all over him.
Razer
March 08, 2023 at 08:43 am
Unless the RAS score is tempered by football sense it amounts to athletic guys making the wrong decisions or making them too late. Some of the Packer draft philosophy needs to change if we are to improve. All our WRs do not need to be 6-3, long striders - some quickness might be nice. All our linemen don't need to be former tackles. A few road graders might open more holes. And, for the love of God hire a scout that knows something about TEs.
At this point I don't care about the Aaron Favre drama. His contract handicaps the team and his play isn't going to get us near the top. Get Love some more weapons (true slot WR, stud TE and another RB) and lets go.
13TimeChamps
March 08, 2023 at 10:13 am
Aaron Favre. That's awesome...good one!
Doug_In_Sandpoint
March 08, 2023 at 08:53 am
Loved the Martz comments. Got me thinking…not to jump the gun, but what do you guys think the Jets will be willing to trade for Jordan Love in 2040? His value will be high coming off 16 straight winning seasons and multiple Super Bowl MVPs.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 08, 2023 at 03:12 pm
Lolz
x24
March 08, 2023 at 08:54 am
Anybody out there willing to share a refresher on what it will cost the Packers to deal Rodgers, by date?
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 09:05 am
This is a quote from TGR on this site. Nobody does it better (sorry James Bond):
“If traded in March, the Packers would take a $40.3M dead money charge, which means their cap space would be reduced by $8.7M. This is the most likely trade scenario because the acquiring team would want Rodgers to attend all of the off-season activities and get the play book to him as soon as possible. If the trade could be delayed until June 2nd, then the dead money hit in 2023 would be $15.8M and $24.48M in 2024. Instead of losing $8.7M in cap space the Packers would gain $15.77M for 2023.”
croatpackfan
March 08, 2023 at 09:33 am
Coldworld, from where that come 58 and something mill $ fully guaranteed if ACR play with Packers this season. If his salary is only 31.6 mill $, those 40.3 mill + 31.6 mill $ is 71.9 mill $.
And, confirmed by TGR, what you pay, you have to count towards cap. How you got that low 60 mill $ than?
MainePackFan
March 08, 2023 at 10:07 am
croat, if they trade AR, they are trading the 59M contract along with him. The 40.3M is dead cap hit from the prorated signing bonus money already paid to AR.
The $31.6M is the cap hit if they keep him. If they trade him, the 31.6 M becomes part of the 40.3 dead cap. Hence the 8.7M it reduces the cap space by in 2023 if he is traded.
Hope that helps.
croatpackfan
March 08, 2023 at 10:11 am
OK, I got it. Thank you!
x24
March 08, 2023 at 09:46 am
Thanks!
BirdDogUni
March 08, 2023 at 02:34 pm
Do we know when the Jets and Packers can even announce a trade legally?
Do they have to wait another week until the New League Year starts?
I'm sure I knew at one time, but am not willing to Duck Duck Go it... ; P
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 08, 2023 at 03:14 pm
Delete
ImaPayne
March 08, 2023 at 09:01 am
Theoretically they could have agreed in principal orally yesterday but cannot announce any deal until March 15th but that more then likely didnt happen. Maybe Rodgers wanted to know how much control he was going to have or not have and didnt like what he heard? Who knows.
I dont see the Pack getting a lot for a 40 year old QB who's seen his better days a few years ago. Maybe a 1 pick maybe not. Maybe Rodge is just screwing with the Jets making it look like he is interested.
I still think he wants to stay a packer and finish out this season and then golf mania after that.
murf7777
March 08, 2023 at 11:50 am
"I dont see the Pack getting a lot for a 40 year old QB who's seen his better days a few years ago."
In 2 out of the last few years he won two MVP's. Are the people who voted him that status all wrong?
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 11:42 pm
GMs don’t buy yesterday if they want to survive. The buy tomorrow.
TheKanataThrilla
March 08, 2023 at 09:08 am
To be honest I would prefer a metric that balances the RAS with the Wonderlic. I think we have seen many cases of 1000 dollar bodies with a 2 cent brain. Wonderlic and intelligence may not matter as much in certain positions, but somebody playing Safety or ILB who is quarterbacking our defense I think that it means quite a bit more and should factor in our decision making rather than just how they test physically. Branch based on his game film looks like a smart guy who happened to perform lousy in his underwear test.
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 11:35 am
The Wonderlic isn’t a great indication of football instincts. No ‘paper’ test is. That’s something only scouting can tell. It does give some insight into the ability to pick up playbooks and the like, which is why it’s most used with QBs and sometimes centers. There are hall of fame types among the worst scorers.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 08, 2023 at 03:15 pm
Thats what film is for.
TheKanataThrilla
March 08, 2023 at 09:23 am
One thing I am interested in is how a trade would impact Lafleur. We know that Aaron performs better with a chip on his shoulder and people questioning his abilities. Without Rodgers, Lafleur will be now have to answer to the critics that any of his prior success was based on having a Hall of Fame QB. Will this push him to be better? Will he wilt under the pressure? Will we finally see what his true offense is supposed to look like? Who knows, but no doubt Aaron leaving will put a lot more accountability on the coaches and management.
Bitternotsour
March 08, 2023 at 10:00 am
As evidenced by his performances in must win-situations, Matt Lafleur has consistently wilted in pressure.
MLF will get one shot with J-Love. This is his make or break year. It's starting off badly, with his decision to stick with his D-Coordinator.
Untylu1968
March 08, 2023 at 10:48 am
Now, was all the "wilting" just MLF, or was our HOF QB part of the equation too? Whether you agree with the play call or not, the players are still the ones who need to execute.
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 11:37 am
We may be about to find out. We need to.
jlc1
March 08, 2023 at 12:40 pm
Embarrassing end of season losses at home against TB, SF and Detroit is a coaching track record. The rosters were sufficiently different, the coaching staff was sufficiently different to put it mostly on MLF.
jlc1
March 08, 2023 at 12:40 pm
Embarrassing end of season losses at home against TB, SF and Detroit is a coaching track record. The rosters were sufficiently different, the coaching staff was sufficiently different to put it mostly on MLF.
LambeauPlain
March 08, 2023 at 01:13 pm
Its now being reported Gray absolutely hated Barry Ball. Deep divisions in the D room.
Gray was offered an extension after his K expired after the season but refused to sign it...especially after MLF announced right after the Detroit choke that Barry Ball would be back.
MLF has a death wish when it comes assembling his coaching staff. He's just not very good on the personnel side.
Pettine, followed by even worse Barry. Menninga replaced by an even worse Drayton. Hackett replaced by Stenovich who was replaced by Butkus and both positions degraded.
croatpackfan
March 08, 2023 at 02:17 pm
Mostly, you are on spot. But as I remmember correctly, it was demand from Mark Murphy (probably from Russ Ball) because Pettine still have 2 years of contract to be paid, so they demanded MLF to keep Pettine.
But, anyhow, Mike Pettine stated that he believes 3 years with one team is the longest he wants to stay, to avoid stagnacy in his job.
LeotisHarris
March 08, 2023 at 07:40 pm
"Its now being reported Gray absolutely hated Barry Ball. Deep divisions in the D room."
LP, could you post a link to a source, please? I'm not finding anything. Thanks!
RCPackerFan
March 08, 2023 at 10:29 am
IF/When Rodgers leaves and LaFleur has Love or whoever else as his starting QB, you will see how good of a coach LaFleur is. You will see how good his offense really is. There is a reason why 3 of LaFleur's better friends have been coming for his QB. They know how good Rodgers is. They know its easier to win when you have a QB with the talent of Rodgers.
Also it will put a lot more pressure on the GM too. If they would trade away Rodgers and Love is horrible, like Mitch Trubisky or worse bad, and in this scenario Rodgers does really good. How many pitchforks will be coming for the Front Office for allowing this to happen. Also trading Rodgers for draft picks, they have to nail those picks. If they don't, it looks worse.
On the flip side they could look like a genius if they make the move and make the trade and that nets a couple of big time starters and Love becomes our next generational QB.
EIther way it adds a lot of pressure to the Front Office and to the coaches.
BirdDogUni
March 08, 2023 at 12:25 pm
I don't think it adds any more pressure than they have every year.
If GMs continually miss on draft picks, they won't be around long. They may hang on longer in GB because our FO structure is so %'ed up, but sooner or later those misses will get you fired.
The reason I feel AR12 wants to be traded is because all the great ones were traded, to include Joe Montana and Brett Favre.
Elway just retired and Tom just played out his contract with Pats so he could go where he wanted to go...
Since Rodgers signed his contract last year, his only options are to retire, (which I firmly believe will not happen), play in GB, or accept a trade and a new start in a new city, most likely NYC...
I think he'll opt for NYC or even Vegas, if the Jets trade were to fall through for some reason.
Another reason I see AR12 playing in another jersey this year is because he knows Jordan Love is ready too...
dobber
March 08, 2023 at 01:55 pm
A losing season adds a lot more pressure than dealing 12. If LaF truly isn't the guy, finding out sooner rather than later is important.
BirdDogUni
March 08, 2023 at 02:13 pm
Tbh, AR12 going to NYJ might not only be the best thing for Jordan Love and the Green Bay Packers, it might be the best thing for MaLF too...
I do believe even Coaches can learn from their mistakes and I think MaLF is probably a pretty good coach, but when you're dealing with a guy as intelligent as AR12 and with as much experience as AR12, I'm sure it wasn't easy trying to coach him.
Maybe we can expect a jump from MaLF?
If MaLF isn't the guy, I just pray he doesn't ruin Love this season...
dobber
March 08, 2023 at 05:34 pm
"If MaLF isn't the guy, I just pray he doesn't ruin Love this season..."
I'm not so worried about that, at least not in terms of getting beat up like Fields. There should be enough OL to keep him upright most of the time, and they should rely on the run game enough to keep blitzers from breathing down his neck all the time. If the job falls to Love, and we all assume that it will if 12 is gone, the best thing he could do is play within the offense, learn to make good decisions, and take care of the football. If all that happens, I think he'll grow.
stockholder
March 08, 2023 at 05:39 pm
The start of excuses.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 08, 2023 at 03:21 pm
Lafleur answered these questions years ago. Everywhere he's been, his offensive guys thrive. He was Matt Ryan's qb coach during his first and only mvp season. He was Jared Goff's OC for two of Goff's best years with the Rams. Goff and Ryan both tailed off after Lafleur left. And during his only year with the Titans, he engineered Derrick Henry's breakout (after 2+ mediocre seasons) and won 9 games despite starting multiple mediocre quarterbacks that year. Then he came to Green Bay and won 13 games 3 years in a row after they missed playoffs the 2 years prior. In my eyes, he's got nothing to prove and I'm happy he's our coach. I see big things in this team's future and MLF is going to be a huge part of it. One last thing, which I think is amazing, MLF was already super high on Love when he was first hired as GB's HC. He pushed for Love. That draft pick likely never happens if MLF never got hired.
Bitternotsour
March 08, 2023 at 04:41 pm
i would note that you didn't extend your breakout season to his quarterback in Tennessee.
not that Mariotta performed badly, just that he was totally average when he wasn't handing the ball off. Also, LaFleur worked for an offensive genius who called his own plays in LA. Matt Ryan was a perennial all-pro in Atlanta basically every year he wasn't hurt. Maybe MLF didn't have that much influence, really. Finally, Goff had a better year in Detroit than Rodgers just had in GB, if we're doing a head to head. Goff had a better year than Rodgers. Goff beat Rodgers twice. Just saying.
Coldworld
March 08, 2023 at 07:19 pm
He wasn’t that successful as an OC. Regardless, he’s now been a head coach for several years and failed to take an MVP and a good roster to a Super Bowl. He’s had preparation issues, adjustment issues, personnel issues, coaching issues and been frequently out coached, often twice in a season. In my opinion it’s plausible that Matt LaFleur is the worst head coach since before Sherman.
The counter to that has always been the existence and speculated influence of Rodgers. If he moves that’s gone completely. LaFleur will have no rival or obstacle. Outside of STs, no coach has independent standing. This is 100% LaFleur with a free hand in and preseason and 5 years of learning behind him.
One way or another, we will know if LaFleur and his team can do it extremely clearly now the field may be clear of the supposed monster. My guess is it’s not pretty, but he’s got a perfect platform to prove me wrong now, along with a team kept together at his insistence.
No point in arguing now. We are going to know soon. LaFleur, Barry, Stenavich are rising stars or probably aren’t here a year from now.
gpt999
March 09, 2023 at 02:42 pm
Great observation Kanata! For a team where performance metrics do not seem to mean anything - especially for coaches and above in GB - will MLF FINALLY be under a microscope? He built up a gaudy won-loss records on the backs of Rodgers and Adams. Without Adams, he went 8-9. Without Rodgers, MLF won't have any excuses about why his offense might not be working, why his team has a losing record, etc.
I sincerely hope that, if Rodgers leaves, that GB can develop an accountable management style where players, coaches and FO can flourish. If they can't...
LambeauPlain
March 08, 2023 at 10:34 am
If Rodgers wants to win another Lombardi, time is running out.
If he decides he does, moving to the Jets may give him the best chance. And it would be eerily similar Brady's departure from the Patriots.
Both were All Pro, MVP icons for one team prior to the move.
Both would go to teams with aggressive, top 5 defenses on the rise.
Both would go to teams with ready to compete but lacking an experienced trigger man.
Both would go to teams with the HC in their 2nd or 3rd year with the team (Saleh 3rd year, Ariens, 2nd).
Both would go to teams with 11-12 years in a playoff drought.
Both would go to teams who won just 7 games the previous season...but showing improvement on the field.
For Rodgers, for the first time, he would play for a defense minded HC.
And, also a first, he would be coached by an OC who would run the O, not the HC. For Rodgers, Hackett would be a strong draw.
Rodgers, who has a big brain, knows this. So do the Jets. The current situation in NY may increase the Packer's leverage in a trade. Sets up nicely for Rodgers. And if he finds end of career success in NY, I would be very happy for him.
Bitternotsour
March 08, 2023 at 11:28 am
I have no doubt that Rodgers can win in a new environment, it's just the kind of challenge that could wake him up.
I also have no doubt that his time in Green Bay has passed.
The final piece here is that the front office is smart enough to not give him away. They have a price. It will be steep. I don't care how old he is, he's a four time MVP, and he's won a super bowl. There is exactly one of those available in football. The price, is what Green Bay says the price is.
As Gutman says "I couldn't be fonder of you if you were my own son. But, well, if you lose a son, it's possible to get another. There's only one Maltese Falcon."
Well, OK, maybe that's a stretch.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 08, 2023 at 11:38 am
Thanks Al!
I too read the Mike Martz comments about Love and loved it! Mike was considered one of the best offensive minds in the NFL back in the early 2000's. He should know talent when he see's it! This is very encouraging!
THE FOLLOWING IS FOR ALL MY FELLOW DRAFT NERDS!
I am going to deviate from Al's article and post the following. I want to try to get some interaction from fellow 'draft nerds'. One of the problems I sometimes see with NFL coaches (Mike McCarthy as an example) and many fans is sometimes not being able to think out of the box on how to best use certain players in ways that maximizes their talents, and improves the team. A case in point is after many years in the league Nixon became a KO specialist and look what happened. Let's look on the OL where we place value on a player like Jenkins, or Zach Tom because they can play at multiple positions which increase their value. Outside of OL teams generally do not seem to give much consideration on using talented players in different roles unless we are talking Special Teams. Therefore, with limited draft capital what players in the draft can be used in multiple roles to help the team and maximize their draft position?
1. First, very curious about people's thoughts about whether with Jalen Carter's off field issue should he fall and come available (let's say with the possibility of the Jet's #13 pick) would you take this guy who many think is the best player in the draft? Just today I saw a mock draft with Jalen falling very close to #13. From the little I know about Jalen's off field issues I would select him in a heart beat. Thoughts? Would you? Boy, would he greatly help turn the defensive line into a top defensive line.
2. For the first time, I saw today in another mock draft the Packers drafting Darnell Washington at TE with their #15. What is everyone's thoughts about that? Intriguing thought! I know Mercedes was a #1 pick and I think Darnell may have a higher ceiling. Personally, I would be okay with Darnell at #15 but I'd feel more comfortable with this if the Packers should have the #13 pick to use on some other needed player. If the Packers only had the #15 pick in round 1 I'd feel more comfortable with them trading down 5 or 7 spots to try taking Washington. What does everyone else think about Washington? I like him but not sure if what he brings fits with their biggest needs at #15. Maybe.....
3. Dalton Kincaid & Luke Musgrave are hybrid TE's/WR's and with size and speed and either could really benefit the offense, as well as Jordan Love. Their skill sets seem to kill two birds with one stone as players at TE, but would really open the offense as they can get down field just like any WR in the draft. I'd really like to see one of these guys drafted by the Pack. Kincaid is for sure going somewhere in round 1. I have seen him mocked as high as #5, and as low as about #27. Musgrave 'might' end up late first round, but if I had to guess he probably goes in the first few picks in round 2. Selecting one of these guys would seem to greatly reduce the need to draft a WR high in round 1 like say a Quentin Johnston, or Addison.
4. Here is the biggest & most controversial suggestion and I'd like feedback on because it is the most radical as you will have to think out of the box because at first blush it doesn't seem to match with one of the Packers biggest needs. At the same time, it might really address the need for a WR high in the draft, and it would eliminate the need for a mid-round RB. I am specifically talking about drafting Bijan Robinson at RB with the #15 (this is especially true if the Packers have the #13). He is the top ranked RB by most in a draft where this is the best set of best RB's in maybe 10-years. I have seem him ranked by Todd McShay as a top 5 talent/pick. After watching him at the Combine, as well as his Youtube video highlights this guy is special. Special runner but a 'very talented receiver'. Want you draft nerds to think out of the box. Remember, Aaron Jones is signed for one more year (2023), and likely gone. I am thinking a creative Gutey & LF could use Bijan as both a RB, but also play extensively as a slot WR. His quickness and moves would work extremely well in the slot. Bijan as a RB would be able to contribute immediately instead of waiting for him to develop. LF could shift Bijan around keeping defenses off balance. If Bijan is as talented as he seems I could see him used in many ways that would greatly impact the Packs offense. What are your thoughts regarding taking him with either a #13, or #15 with the team needs? Would a Bijan Robinson at #13, and at #15 maybe a Darnell Washington (or replace with Kincaid, Mayer, or Musgrave) totally transform this offense making them an offensive juggernaut?
Appreciate any and all thoughts! Just having some fun leading up to the draft and wanting to get off the never ending Rodgers drama BS. Come on Gutey.....get creative with the pick(s) in round 1 & 2 and figure out how to get the maximum value to help the team.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 08, 2023 at 12:34 pm
Maybe as a follow-up to my lengthy post above is that I sense too many want a guy like Brian Branch at #15 simply because the Packers have a need at Safety. His value seems to be dropping, particularly after the Combine. Regarding Bijan Robinson he seems to be considered one of the very top players in the draft regardless of position (I am using Bijan more of as an example) who would be very good value if there at #15. Should the Pack draft the very best player with their first pick vs need?
Come on....all of you share your thoughts? Let's get you on record! Draft in first round by Need, or BPA?
croatpackfan
March 08, 2023 at 02:20 pm
BPA for need. I'm for pass-rusher/edge or DL/DE.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 08, 2023 at 02:59 pm
Certainly would not get ANY complaint with me on that philosophy!!! As you know....I believe in the philosophy of 'KnockTheSnotOutofYou'
Big & mean coupled with athleticism is the way to go more often than snot! :)
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 08, 2023 at 03:01 pm
BTW, not smoking anything, or even drinking....just giddy with the possibility of Aaron Rodgers getting traded and the Packers moving on with a young team full of talent & draft capital. Heady stuff!
Tundraboy
March 08, 2023 at 10:06 pm
BPA
MainePackFan
March 08, 2023 at 01:14 pm
Knock.
Carter won't drop to #15 or even #13 unless something comes out suggesting he is of bad character. Obviously the Packers have Wyatt and Stokes to give them the scoop on him.
I'm not for drafting a TE or an RB in the first round.
That being said, I do think Robinson is the kind of talent that might warrant it. I think Mayer may not have the upside that some of the other TE's you mentioned have, but I think his floor is much higher. I also think he has a more complete game and is closer to pro-ready than the others.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 08, 2023 at 01:40 pm
Thanks Maine!
I'd be shocked too if Carter dropped to the Packers but if available all previous thoughts on who I'd want would go right out the window at that point. With Jalen's character issues, the excess speeding ticket just months before the fatal accident early this year where he was ticketed for reckless driving and racing (and lying) do enough teams pass him by? If so, do you take him?
Are you open to a top WR in round 1? If so, that is my thought with a Kincaid, or a Musgrave because they essentially can fill the role of both WR & TE. No, they are not a blocking TE no doubt, but likely better than WR's in that regard.
My thought is if the Packers are going to claim they are drafting BPA in round 1 than almost certainly has to be Robinson when #15 rolls around. No, he does not match up with a top Packer roster need, however if you added the slot WR role I think it would make sense to draft him as BPA. Just thinking out of the box! I also know there is NO way the Packers draft Robertson, but if used in the slot I think it might be a very good consideration.
I am really torn on Mayer to be honest. At one time really sold on him at #15. My gut feeling after watching him at the Combine with the other TE's is he is over-hyped a little. Will he be a good player....yes! Is he the best player available at #15....absolutely not! I think there are several TE's who would be better fits for the Pack with their needs.
MainePackFan
March 08, 2023 at 02:12 pm
Knock.
Regarding Carter, as I said, I would defer to the players on the Packers that know him. When I was his age I drove way to fast and raced against friends. By the Grace of God, none of us were killed. I would have to know about the incident and what his part in it was. Making dumb decisions doesn't make you a bad dude. Wyatt and Stokes know the person.
I would not draft any of the TE's in the first round unless it was a trade down situation and I was picking at the bottom of the 1st.
I would sooner pick JSN at 15 than any TE. I think he fills a role at slot, and comes from a program known to produce WR's who are pro-ready.
My bet is they go EDGE : )
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 08, 2023 at 02:51 pm
Hmmmm.....let's see.....Maine, I cannot ever recall doing anything stupid behind the wheel as a young man!
Well, I guess there was this situation back when I was 19-years old when I went back to Maine and took my girlfriend at the time out to a New Year's Eve party. Let's just say over indulged & was having a great time. When pulled over later by two police officers on my way home the two policemen approached on both sides of the car, and as they stood there talking to me with both windows down my girlfriend opens the car door and throws up all over one police officers shoes & trousers. I thought I was a cooked goose at that point in time! However, both police officers looked at each other and then at me and said with empathy...."son, just get her home!"
How times have changed! Certainly wasn't smart on my part & fortunately no one got hurt!
MainePackFan
March 08, 2023 at 03:12 pm
Love that story Knock.
It's part of growing up. Sadly there are far too many who didn't live to learn from their mistakes. Unfortunately, a lesson is only a lesson if you live to tell about it.
PackyCheese500
March 08, 2023 at 07:25 pm
Hopefully we go EDGE! This year's class is great!
PackyCheese500
March 08, 2023 at 07:13 pm
Whoah.
1. I do not think Carter will fall out of the top 10, even with his little issue. Teams know he is a great player.
2. I would also love to see the Packers draft Kincaid, as he seems to me to be Kelce 2.0, and has work to do but is improving in the blocking department. Musgrave i would stay away from. He's not great as a blocker, but I think he can improve there in the pros; my main concern is that he nearly always goes down on first contact (not great for a TE), and injuries have limited him to 18 games the past 3 seasons. Too many red flags there.
3. You probably already know where I stand on this matter...NO RBs in round 1! Their average careers are too short. Their positional value is miniscule when compared to positions like OL, DE/OLB, and WR. I think it makes even less sense when you consider that we already have one of (if not the) best RB duos in the league plus competent backups in Taylor and Goodson. What more improvement could be made there? How would we split carries between Robinson, Dillon, and Jones?
If Jones was leaving, I would consider it (but still be against it). Now that Jones is staying, it makes no sense to do so, especially when RB may be our best position group and we are so sorely lacking in other position groups. I know the FO will agree with me, too.
Everyone has been talking about how great Bijan would be, but what if he's a bust? How would that look? Do we want to have a Trent Richardson 2.0? I'm not saying that will happen (and am certainly not saying that Bijan = Trent Richardson), but that we have other areas to address.
I would also point you back to the Saquon Barkley pick; this may be a better analogy. Yes, Saquon Barkley has been a great player for the Giants, but when you look back on the players they passed on at No. 2 overall (Denzel Ward, Quenton Nelson, Roquan Smith, Josh Allen), you can't help but think the Giants screwed up, even though Saquon is a great player. I don't want that to be us, looking back at some of the players we could have selected at positions of higher impact that would undoubtably have contributed to more wins.
splitpea1
March 08, 2023 at 11:39 am
I really hope Gute throws some of that R.A.S. minutiae out if Branch falls to him, but I wouldn't bet on it. Both safeties he has drafted graded at 8.0 or higher. But he did deviate from the usual preferred height requirement (albeit in a minimal way) with Alexander regarding the CBs. The Packers might have to adjust their thinking in this regard because I don't think they can avoid drafting a safety highly; free agency isn't the long-term answer and neither is moving Douglas to the position.
The thing that really stood out in the Maafi defense article was the huge jump in the R.A.S. scores in the LBs taken by Gute. Now this is a welcome change, and a long overdue one.
On the OL, I'm still trying to figure out why Gute drafted Myers over Humphrey, given the latter scored a perfect 10.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 08, 2023 at 11:53 am
Split,
Just me......but I am not as high on Branch as many seem to be with a #15 pick. I also don't believe Safety is the teams biggest need. There are resources currently on the team that can be moved around, re-sign Ford, draft a Safety mid-rounds in draft, and pick-up a veteran FA Safety.
Personally, I see EDGE as critical but I also see picking up skill players on Offense as critical as well. The defense need to apply pressure on the QB and stop the run, and a good EDGE can help make-up for so-so talent at Safety. The Pack struggled mightily to score in 2022 with Rodgers at the helm. Look at the two Lion games. With a young inexperienced Love at QB any help they can get at those skilled positions would greatly benefit the Pack/Love.
Now having said that I believe too many here get caught up with the RAS score. It is one more measurement no doubt but let's not forget about guys the Packers have drafted with an incredibly high RAS score who bombed. Do you remember the drafting of OLB Kendall Donnerson back in 2018 who had the highly touted 9.89 RAS score? He bombed and washed out. The RAS score is just one of many things to consider but is not the end all.
splitpea1
March 08, 2023 at 12:24 pm
I'm hoping for multiple first rounds picks of course, but if things stayed the same at #15, I'm hoping for the BPA at either S, TE, or OL. At safety, I'm looking for one young solid piece we can build around instead of rearranging the furniture (I'd be more inclined to do that with the pass rush until Gary returns).
Agreed we need at least one second or third-rounder to bolster the WR corps, and totally agree about the nature of athletic scores since so many factors go into making an impactful football player on the field.
The most interesting aspect of the Packers draft will be who to see who they select at TE--lots of good prospects to choose from.
greengold
March 08, 2023 at 12:18 pm
I'd love to know that too, splitpea1. Humphrey is now a Super Bowl Champion.
Here's Gutekust's comments after the draft on Myers:
“Really versatile guy that can play anywhere inside. Two-year starter at center. Captain…Josh is a 6-5, 310-pound center. He’s very very smart. Very very strong. He played at a high level at Ohio State for a couple years there.
His size, his athleticism, his power, how smart he is, what they asked him to do at Ohio State, understanding he could handle that stuff here, that was intriguing to us. He just fit what we’re all about.”
I think it literally came down to the fact that Myers was bigger than Humphrey. That's about all the difference between the two. 1" taller and 10 lbs heavier, bigger hands.
Humphrey came in with better credentials as a 2-Time Big 12 Conference Offensive Lineman of the Year.
PackyCheese500
March 08, 2023 at 07:26 pm
It may have also been Myers' school (Ohio St), as that's where Linsley was from
HarryHodag
March 08, 2023 at 11:50 am
My take: Rodgers came out of the darkness with the intent to retire. But the Jets are in 'Love' with him and are doing the full-scale sales job on him. That is what the private jet and all the team big shots are all about, a major sales job to invigorate him for a couple of years.
The Jets see a shot at the brass ring. What they lack is a QB who can read defenses and get the job done. Quite honestly if the Jets owner doesn't care about money, how about a fully guaranteed contract for Lamar Jackson? He's going to be on the market. There you have a dynamic playmaker who is still young. It would only cost a couple of top picks but you would have Jackson for many years. I won't talk too loudly lest someone on the Jets figures out that with Rodgers you're getting a guy who is more than a little flakey and clearly has lost a thing or two.
murf7777
March 08, 2023 at 11:56 am
Interesting take Harry. You might be right about retiring. I don't think so. My thoughts are what has made him so great is still burning inside him to fulfill. It's hard to let that go.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 08, 2023 at 12:09 pm
I would agree with you Murf!
jurp
March 08, 2023 at 11:57 am
Jackson's semi-off the market, now that he's been non-exclusively franchised. Still, the Jets could go for him but I suspect he'll cost more than Rodgers due to age and running ability.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 08, 2023 at 12:11 pm
I am hopeful Jackson does not impact the Packers draft compensation for Rodgers. Don't think so but only time will tell. After losing out on all the possible trade/draft capital last offseason it will be hard if a decent amount of draft capital does not materialize this year.
murf7777
March 08, 2023 at 12:24 pm
I don't know the answer, but isn't Rodgers SC number fairly cheap for his value considering the Packers will eat 40M of salary cap? How does Rodgers SC effect whoever gets him in a trade?
I also think Ravens are playing this smart. It's doubtful another owner is willing to set another precedent on fully guaranteed 50M per year. So, when Jackson gets a lessor offer and he finds out he was asking for too much the Ravens just match that offer and keep him for less guaranteed than Jackson wanted. Call it collusion, but that's how I see it playing out.
I would guess most owner's think Cleveland Browns owner, Haslam was an idiot to give that contract to Watson. Maybe not, but time will tell.
MooPack
March 08, 2023 at 12:34 pm
Tweet from Tom Silverstein:
"Just a thought: What are the chances Rodgers would want LT David Bakhtiari to be part of the #Packers deal to the #Jets? It's curious his deal hasn't been reworked when all the others have been done for a while. It would shave $5M off GB's cap if he were traded before the 17th."
It is quite interesting that Bahk deal hasn't been done yet. Jets do need a Tackle. One has to wonder...
He also tweeted this:
"Jets would have to take on Rodgers' $15.8M plus Bakhtiari's $17.2M, but there is almost $15M of Bakhtiari's deal the Jets could convert to a signing bonus to drastically lower the cap number. The Cobb deal two years ago made me wonder if this was a possibility."
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 08, 2023 at 12:43 pm
Moo, I too have wondered about why Bakhtiari's deal has not been re-worked. I am also seeing Jet's just restructured C.J. Uzomah's contract creating $3.6 million in cap space. All of this just get's the mind working about what is going on. Are the Jet's clearing space for AR....and possibly Bakhtiari?
Should Bak be included that sure changes the Packs priorities in the upcoming draft at OT.
greengold
March 08, 2023 at 01:50 pm
Huh... Shocker.
LOL. I brought this up weeks ago to a shit ton of down votes!!! Oh, my...
MooPack
March 08, 2023 at 01:57 pm
Fickle bunch
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 08, 2023 at 02:05 pm
GG,
I recall you first brought it up here at CCTV. You da man!!! :)
I remember at the time thinking what are you drinking GG! LOL!
It is making more and more sense after reading how the Jet's desperately need help at OT and want that #13 pick for an OT. Well, David B. definitely could address their need enough at OT for them to give up the #13.
greengold
March 08, 2023 at 02:50 pm
Knock, it's funny, but my thinking back then after researching the Jets OL was "Holy F balls, they don't have one!!!"
I'm telling you, this could wind up being an unprecedented blockbuster deal if the Packers trade Aaron Rodgers, David Bakhtiari, and another OL. Just pick one.
"What's that you say? You want a starter? Another one???"
Look at this draft. It is devoid of OG talent. Completely. We have Offensive Guards like Woodman's has oversized beverages for sale.
LOL.
The laws of supply & demand could be working quite favorably for the Packers in many unexpected ways this next month or so.
The Jets have nothing to trade the Packers except just about all of their draft picks over the next 5 years. They're going all in, and I think we should be happy to oblige them. Why not?
Man, if Rasheed Walker turns into a total stud, the Packers would indeed have an embarrassment of riches at OL. Runyan, Jenkins, Newman, Tom, Walker, Bakhtiari, Myers, Hansen, Rhyan, and they'll likely re-sign RFA Yosh Nijman, who ought to get an R1 tender.
OT Jean Delance? A December under-the-radar signing by Gutekunst from Florida.
OT Caleb Jones? The giant helped Indiana lead the Big 10 in fewest sacks.
OT Luke Tenuta? An R6 2022 taken by the Bills, cut. Colts sign him, cut. Hello, Packers!
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 08, 2023 at 02:56 pm
GG,
A daily dose of you & my engine starts roaring and I cannot wait till football season and the Packers start 'knocking-the-snot-out-of-someone'.
greengold
March 08, 2023 at 03:04 pm
It's pretty fun, and funny as hell. Most people wonder exactly what I'm either drinking or smoking. Welcome to my world...!!!
I don't really hit too many accoutrements. No need. I'm just wired this way.
Gotta bring the fun! WHAP!!!
ps. I never said I wanted to trade DBak. Ever.
Instead, I merely look at what the big picture is in an attempt to try and figure out what both teams are doing? In this case, once Woody Johnson made his wishes/intentions known, with GB his targeted trading partner. What is driving each team? What does each team need? What can happen, as unlikely as it may seem? How can they help each other? What would these scenarios that are considered wild, irrational, impossible take to actually make them happen?
Everything is impossible until somebody does it. Got that from a fortune cookie. Looking at it right now.
All deals, no matter what discipline, require both sides to get something of value in return, and they more often than not require fair measure between both parties.
BirdDogUni
March 08, 2023 at 03:15 pm
*If we were to trade David Bakhtiari too:
*13 Broderick Jones LT | Georgia
15 Quentin Johnston WR | TCU
43 Dawand Jones RT | Ohio State
45 Darnell Washington TE | Georgia
78 Andre Carter II EDGE | Army
116 Roschon Johnson RB | Texas
151 Owen Pappoe LB | Auburn
171 Brandon Joseph S | Notre Dame
234 Evan Hull RB | Northwestern
237 Warren McClendon OT | Georgia
244 Elijah Higgins WR | Stanford
256 Tavius Robinson EDGE | Mississippi
259 Matt Landers WR | Arkansas
PackyCheese500
March 08, 2023 at 07:27 pm
I, too, have been thinking the same thing. If Bakhtiari is traded, we should get an OL in round 1. Skoronski is my choice, due to his versatility, football IQ, work ethic, and desire to come here.
Bakhtiari would only be a 5.7m cap hit to the Jets if he was traded. That is his non-dead cap hit.
Packerpasty
March 08, 2023 at 12:40 pm
Aaron Jones said today "Do the right thing and return to the Packers"....
LambeauPlain
March 08, 2023 at 01:23 pm
AJ also so said if things don’t work out for a Rodgers return, he called Jordan Love “more than capable” and “ready for his shot”.
BirdDogUni
March 08, 2023 at 02:02 pm
If Gutey knows Love is ready.
If Aaron Jones says Love is ready..
If De'Vondre Campbell thinks Love is ready...
Aaron Rodgers knows Love is ready too.
That is why the first time he was on PMS, he said he understood if the Packers wanted to go younger.
All that is left to do is make the trade.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 08, 2023 at 02:08 pm
Agreed, and now that Mike Martz the offensive genius says he was "dumb-founded when I saw him and that he would bet the ranch on Love. Just watching him, I've NEVER been so shocked or taken by a guy at first glance as I was with Jordan Love".
Man, that is pretty heady stuff right there!!! Martz was the offensive genius in the NFL in the late 1990's and early 2000's. I mean Martz making a comment like that is almost as powerful as an endorsement from someone like 'Coldwell, RAS, GreenGold, NickPerry, MooPack, Since61, BirdDog, Maine, LambeauPlain, Swish, Jannes, JohnnyBlood, RC, and many more! :)
Like Favre always said about never wanting your back-up to play...I think you are all starting to understand why AR did not want to stop playing when he 'injured' his thumb this past season. Yup!
In addition to getting ready to purchase my Jordan Love jersey.....if he turns out the way I think the Packer Pro Shop needs to market/sell a Gutey jersey because after 2023 I am going to want one if Love becomes the player I think he will become.
BirdDogUni
March 08, 2023 at 02:28 pm
"I mean Martz making a comment like that is almost as powerful as an endorsement from someone like 'Coldwell, RAS, GreenGold, NickPerry, MooPack, Since61, BirdDog, Maine, LambeauPlain, Swish, Jannes, JohnnyBlood, RC, and many more!" :)
LMAO... Good one.
We all know it isn't a fact though until sh weighs in. ;P
MooPack
March 08, 2023 at 03:33 pm
Ha, just caught this.
Like BDU said… Good one. I don’t so much hear a ringing in my ear as a stinging in my backside.
MainePackFan
March 08, 2023 at 03:56 pm
I made the list!!! This is a big moment. I would like to thank my agent, my dog Buddy........
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 08, 2023 at 04:15 pm
Lol
Alberta_Packer
March 08, 2023 at 03:06 pm
Tick, Tick, Boom would be splendid but I'm more expecting Tick, Tick, What! Packers have practically no leverage - which has all shifted to Rodgers. If he agrees to be traded to the Jets - you know that it will come with terms and conditions from Rodgers - like bringing a pal or two with him (especially Bakh). This isn't necessarily bad in terms of the salary cap but it will likely reduce the draft capital from the Jets. Actually, I don't think that Rodgers alone would fetch a 1st rounder from the Jets - probably a 2nd and some later round picks. In short, if this trade comes to fruition - be prepared to be underwhelmed by the return.
The_Baloney_Stops_Here
March 08, 2023 at 03:28 pm
Sure they do. They can just refuse to play Rodgers and he knows it. Packers are moving on with Love whether Rodgers is still on the roster or not.
Alberta_Packer
March 08, 2023 at 04:37 pm
Rodgers playing chicken with Murphy? A no contest for Rodgers.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 08, 2023 at 03:31 pm
AP,
As my wife has said more than once over the years..."go ahead dream and fantasize!" :)
Alberta_Packer
March 08, 2023 at 04:42 pm
A lovely sentiment. However one of the reasons that we dream and fantasize - is as an escape from our reality - which we are now facing with Rodgers et al.
crayzpackfan
March 08, 2023 at 03:33 pm
Good Lord! I actually read every post on this, hit a few thumbs up's, had many thoughts and ideas of my own when reading while considering ideas I hadn't thought of before. Jesus you guys and gals, I have nothing funny, insightful, educational, or prophetic to add here. It's been covered. What a group!!
All I can do now is STFU, go home, get out my meat grinder, and grind me up some 20 pounds of venison with Wagyu fat trimmings for some 80-20 beef. If you folks are betting people, take the over that I'll be drinking a few rum & Cokes and a couple Duck Farts (Google It) too.
What an exhausting couple of off-seasons for us fans, no matter what camp we are all in. Hopefully, "OUR" team, the best team, comes out ahead of all this. I hate seeing Packer Land being divisive. I love passionate discussions, but not a fan of having us being so divided.
God Bless.
KnockTheSnotOutOfYou
March 08, 2023 at 03:39 pm
And here I thought you were a Crazy fan! :)
greengold
March 08, 2023 at 03:55 pm
Exactly! I love this, crazypackfan. We're all in this together.
LeotisHarris
March 08, 2023 at 04:16 pm
Nice! A few rum and Cokes, coupla Duck Farts, and a meat grinder. I look forward to the conversations... "oh, ya, I remember when ol' Stubby/Lefty/Three-Finger went by crazypackfan on CHTV. Good dude, but man did his ground venison taste funky."
kozmo
March 08, 2023 at 05:07 pm
Isn't it possible that the packers worked out a deal prior to giving rodgers permission to talk to the jets.
Also the packers felt love wasn't good why would they let rodgers go. Clearly they see love in practice, they should have some kind of feeling about him at this point
stockholder
March 08, 2023 at 05:40 pm
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
joejetson
March 08, 2023 at 09:23 pm
Considering recent trades for veteran QB's, a trade scenario should be in the two 1st round picks neighborhood. But since the Front Office has mishandled this entire situation, combined with an ill timed poor season by #12, I fear GB will settle for slightly more than they got for Favre. Maybe a 2nd and 4th and a mid-level player. Hope I'm wrong.